I know a lot of us have subscriptions to "The Athletic" so I'm posting this article here... but if you don't have a subscription you can watch the Hoge & Jahns' in-depth video that covers some of this stuff (below).
LINK How NFL teams can navigate intangibles of QB evaluation, starting with Bears at No. 1
Post by bearsinhouston on Feb 25, 2024 11:36:59 GMT -6
This reinforced several concepts for me. A few of these guys (Daniels in particular), have played differently in different environments. It keeps me going back to the idea of more of these college kids could have been successful in the right NFL environment. Most of these guys have the talent to succeed in the NFL. But they have to go to a place that has good coaches and at least some good weapons to play with. If they don't have that, they digress and wither. I really believe that not all the QBs that failed with the Bears would have failed on different teams.
Any of these three could succeed and all three could fail. Obviously, part of that is the player themselves, but a part is also where they end up. What they are asked to do, how militant the coaches are in terms of doing what the coaches want, vs what the player can do, etc. Who they have to throw to. Maye and even McCarthy seem like they can be good. Hell, Daniels has also done it. He has the ability to do it in the NFL. They led with the intangibles, but there was very little discussion on their ability to read and process the whole field quickly. That to me is maybe the most important trait, and there was no insight into that. I would have leaned towards whoever they felt did that best, but this video did not shed any light on that.
Post by bearsinhouston on Feb 25, 2024 11:47:33 GMT -6
This is an example of what I am saying. This is from Kurt Warner. These kids in college are not asked to do the same kinds of things that they are in the NFL for the most part. It's a crap shoot and you don't know until you know.
"I know many of you LOVE college football, but as I start to dive into these college QBs, it's hard for me to even watch: very few play on schedule, the pass concepts are a mess most of the time, they run the same play over & over, a million bubble screens, can't find many concepts that translate to next level," Warner wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter. "And then ppl are asked to figure out how good they will be at next level!? (Nearly impossible in my mind) "For me CJ Stroud is a great example - obviously really good in college & OSU runs more pro-style concepts than most but they didn’t ask him to process & get ball out as quickly as he did last year in HOU - so I had no idea he would be so good at processing so fast! He's better in NFL than what we got to see in college, but many times you just don’t know until you know!"
This is an example of what I am saying. This is from Kurt Warner. These kids in college are not asked to do the same kinds of things that they are in the NFL for the most part. It's a crap shoot and you don't know until you know.
"I know many of you LOVE college football, but as I start to dive into these college QBs, it's hard for me to even watch: very few play on schedule, the pass concepts are a mess most of the time, they run the same play over & over, a million bubble screens, can't find many concepts that translate to next level," Warner wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter. "And then ppl are asked to figure out how good they will be at next level!? (Nearly impossible in my mind) "For me CJ Stroud is a great example - obviously really good in college & OSU runs more pro-style concepts than most but they didn’t ask him to process & get ball out as quickly as he did last year in HOU - so I had no idea he would be so good at processing so fast! He's better in NFL than what we got to see in college, but many times you just don’t know until you know!"
+1 Yeah, Caleb Williams works out of the shotgun rather than under center as he will be doing in the NFL. I've read comments from NFL quarterbacks that this is a HUGE thing in-and-of-itself to get used to - at NFL speed and the elite NFL defenses that are light-years better than what Caleb faced on the west coast (weak D's compared even to other universities). It sounds like Maye is more "Pro Ready" right now. Could Caleb be the better QB? Sure. But it's not a given that he will be... just like Bryce Young vs Stroud last year. As you said, "you just don't know until you know."
This is an example of what I am saying. This is from Kurt Warner. These kids in college are not asked to do the same kinds of things that they are in the NFL for the most part. It's a crap shoot and you don't know until you know.
"I know many of you LOVE college football, but as I start to dive into these college QBs, it's hard for me to even watch: very few play on schedule, the pass concepts are a mess most of the time, they run the same play over & over, a million bubble screens, can't find many concepts that translate to next level," Warner wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter. "And then ppl are asked to figure out how good they will be at next level!? (Nearly impossible in my mind) "For me CJ Stroud is a great example - obviously really good in college & OSU runs more pro-style concepts than most but they didn’t ask him to process & get ball out as quickly as he did last year in HOU - so I had no idea he would be so good at processing so fast! He's better in NFL than what we got to see in college, but many times you just don’t know until you know!"
+1 Yeah, Caleb Williams works out of the shotgun rather than under center as he will be doing in the NFL. I've read comments from NFL quarterbacks that this is a HUGE thing in-and-of-itself to get used to - at NFL speed and the elite NFL defenses that are light-years better than what Caleb faced on the west coast (weak D's compared even to other universities). It sounds like Maye is more "Pro Ready" right now. Could Caleb be the better QB? Sure. But it's not a given that he will be... just like Bryce Young vs Stroud last year. As you said, "you just don't know until you know."
This is why I have been focused on the most recently successful NFL QBs having been given the freedom to learn the NFL game for at least one full season before being thrown in as a starter.
+1 Yeah, Caleb Williams works out of the shotgun rather than under center as he will be doing in the NFL. I've read comments from NFL quarterbacks that this is a HUGE thing in-and-of-itself to get used to - at NFL speed and the elite NFL defenses that are light-years better than what Caleb faced on the west coast (weak D's compared even to other universities). It sounds like Maye is more "Pro Ready" right now. Could Caleb be the better QB? Sure. But it's not a given that he will be... just like Bryce Young vs Stroud last year. As you said, "you just don't know until you know."
This is why I have been focused on the most recently successful NFL QBs having been given the freedom to learn the NFL game for at least one full season before being thrown in as a starter.
I agree. but if they take a QB at 1, he is going to start. Thrown to the wolves
This is why I have been focused on the most recently successful NFL QBs having been given the freedom to learn the NFL game for at least one full season before being thrown in as a starter.
I agree. but if they take a QB at 1, he is going to start. Thrown to the wolves
And then when the new QB prospect runs into growing pains, all the folks screaming for a new QB will start all over again by screaming for a new QB.
I agree. but if they take a QB at 1, he is going to start. Thrown to the wolves
And then when the new QB prospect runs into growing pains, all the folks screaming for a new QB will start all over again by screaming for a new QB.
This is also why I am beating the table for the Bears to do everything they can to provide the best supporting offense around this new guy. Not saying "perfect" support, but rather as good as is "reasonably" possible. Let the defense ride in the back seat THIS off season, other than adding a few pieces that we obviously need... maybe we can take care of this year's needs in FA for the most part. Spend our blue chip draft picks on offense - and add a couple of upper-tier FA's like a G and/or C. I'm not talking one of these deadbeat OL guys like Patrick. Get legit talent... at least 2nd tier talents. I'll never understand the Lucas Patrick signing, but I digress.
I get so sick of fans saying stupid things like "well, the talent is good enough" - yet it isn't and hasn't been good enough. Don't set the bar on offense supporting talent at "good enough" and maybe one of these kids will actually do well here in Chicago. The "good enough" thing has never, ever worked here. So if we want a QB1 to shine, and the offense to be good - then invest in the best possible talent there that you "reasonably" can get. That just seems like common sense to me. Right?
This is an example of what I am saying. This is from Kurt Warner. These kids in college are not asked to do the same kinds of things that they are in the NFL for the most part. It's a crap shoot and you don't know until you know.
"I know many of you LOVE college football, but as I start to dive into these college QBs, it's hard for me to even watch: very few play on schedule, the pass concepts are a mess most of the time, they run the same play over & over, a million bubble screens, can't find many concepts that translate to next level," Warner wrote on X, formerly known as Twitter. "And then ppl are asked to figure out how good they will be at next level!? (Nearly impossible in my mind) "For me CJ Stroud is a great example - obviously really good in college & OSU runs more pro-style concepts than most but they didn’t ask him to process & get ball out as quickly as he did last year in HOU - so I had no idea he would be so good at processing so fast! He's better in NFL than what we got to see in college, but many times you just don’t know until you know!"
+1 Yeah, Caleb Williams works out of the shotgun rather than under center as he will be doing in the NFL. I've read comments from NFL quarterbacks that this is a HUGE thing in-and-of-itself to get used to - at NFL speed and the elite NFL defenses that are light-years better than what Caleb faced on the west coast (weak D's compared even to other universities). It sounds like Maye is more "Pro Ready" right now. Could Caleb be the better QB? Sure. But it's not a given that he will be... just like Bryce Young vs Stroud last year. As you said, "you just don't know until you know."
This really isn't a thing anymore. NFL offenses use the shotgun formation on like 80% of their snaps. Times have changed.