Allen will win a Super Bowl one day. You can screenshot me saying that. He's just too talented but is going against a player even better than him. Again QBs matter. Mahomes is by far the best QB we have ever seen in the NFL. He can do everything.
Just like I said before and no one provided anything to counter it i'll copy and past it again.
Since 2000.
Brady 7 rings
Mahomes 3 rings
Peyton Manning 2 rings
Eli Manning 2 rings
Ben Roethlisberger 2 rings
Aaron Rodgers 1 ring
Drew Brews 1 ring
7 who are Hall of Fame QBs vs 6 QBs who ain't. 7 QBs since 2000's have taken 18 rings.
Trent Dilfer (2000) Ravens. Elite defense
Brad Johnson (2002) Buccaneers. Elite Defense
Joe Flacco (2012) Ravens. All Pro playoff run by QB
Russell Wilson (2013) Seahawks. Elite defense
Nick Foles (2017) Eagles. Elite QB play during post season
Matt Stafford (2021) Rams. Super team around him
The fact of the matter is. Elite QBs will get you rings far more than non elite QBs. Maybe its just one or 2. Unless your average QB goes on to make an elite playoff run like Flacco and Foles. You're not going to have much success. With how defense is getting harder and harder to play unlike before. Elite defenses might not be enough anymore.
As Bear fans, we love to downplay how important QB play is but the fact is. Dak and Cousins will never win you a ring. Dak has had a good to great roster since joining the Cowboys and chokes. Cousins pads his stats against weak teams but struggles in prime time. Those QBs only hurt you more than help you. Go after a rookie and give the rookie better options to throw the ball to by cap savings. This is why I want to start over with Williams. More cap flexibility and maybe a chance for an Allen or Burrow. NFC is so weak. We have no legit top 5 NFL QB in the NFC.
Maybe Allen will play in a Super Bowl...maybe. And perhaps nobody countered your point because nobody disputes that an elite QB gives you an advantage. I don't think I've seen a soul here suggest otherwise. What YOU are ignoring is that coaching also matters. I provided you the stats showing how much better Dak has been than Allen...Dak has had some pretty miserable head coaches however. Jason Garrett is garbage, and McCarthy isn't much better. An elite QB can only carry a coach so far...otherwise Rodgers would have more rings. Counter that.
Matt LaFleur is arguably a better HC than McCarthy and brought his team to back to back NFC Championship games with Aaron Rodgers as his QB. McCarthy brought Rodgers his only ring and you call him a bad coach. Counter to your counter as a HC has impact but not as much as a QB. I do wonder how LaFleur will be without Rodgers. Usually takes a few years before you can determine who ran that offense. Sadly with Rodgers never getting time to play do to his injury. We'll have to see this year.
There is a reason why the Chiefs never won anything with Alex Smith at QB but once Mahomes got that roster. They became a dynasty. There is a reason Belichick won't get another head coaching spot even without wanting total control. Tom Brady made him.
Post by bearsinhouston on Feb 19, 2024 19:08:26 GMT -6
This article says that if they are going to trade Fields they need to do it before the combine while teams are trying to finalize their QB situation. I don't think there is a major play trade that Poles doesn't love, so this may happen. Of course, if he does this and then gets cute with the 1st pick and trades down, it may mean that his top guy may get taken before he gets there. Lots of moving parts.
Maybe Allen will play in a Super Bowl...maybe. And perhaps nobody countered your point because nobody disputes that an elite QB gives you an advantage. I don't think I've seen a soul here suggest otherwise. What YOU are ignoring is that coaching also matters. I provided you the stats showing how much better Dak has been than Allen...Dak has had some pretty miserable head coaches however. Jason Garrett is garbage, and McCarthy isn't much better. An elite QB can only carry a coach so far...otherwise Rodgers would have more rings. Counter that.
Matt LaFleur is arguably a better HC than McCarthy and brought his team to back to back NFC Championship games with Aaron Rodgers as his QB. McCarthy brought Rodgers his only ring and you call him a bad coach. Counter to your counter as a HC has impact but not as much as a QB. I do wonder how LaFleur will be without Rodgers. Usually takes a few years before you can determine who ran that offense. Sadly with Rodgers never getting time to play do to his injury. We'll have to see this year.
There is a reason why the Chiefs never won anything with Alex Smith at QB but once Mahomes got that roster. They became a dynasty. There is a reason Belichick won't get another head coaching spot even without wanting total control. Tom Brady made him.
Good in depth Hoge and Jahns podcast (Fishbain subbing in) where they talk to a USC beat writer about Williams.
I had already watched that video and liked it a lot. The beat reporter gave a GREAT balanced evaluation of Williams. The positives and negatives. I 100% believe Caleb Williams will not be a bust like some are now saying. But he is a project. Like Fields coming out of Ohio State, the guy has crazy good raw talent. But as the reporter points out, he needs talent around him to play well... in 2023 with the talent decline around him he lost 5 out of 6 games against the better teams on their schedule. That doesn't bother me at all as far as drafting him... it's just like Fields. These guys DO need a threshold of talent around them to win. The meatballs like to jump in and point out exceptions where QBs have overcome less than stellar supporting talent - those are exceptions. Meatballs don't understand that.
Williams will be a good QB if he truly strives to work on his game - and as many NFL people have pointed out about him... it matters where he lands. He will thrive in the "right" team environment. I think the Bears in 2024 can/will provide that level of support. I have to believe they have learned their lessons from past failures and Poles will give this guy a good OL and solid receivers... and I like the O coaches they've hired for this year too.
The more I re-watch the Caleb Williams video, and go back to the Justin Fields Ohio State videos - the more similar these two QB's look to me. They have more in common than not. A big difference though is size. Fields is a bigger man with prototypical size. But that doesn't mean Caleb can't be a stellar QB. Just pointing that out as one way they are not similar. Both of them hold onto the ball too long trying to extend plays. Both have great arm strength. Both seem like high football IQ guys. Both guys need solid supporting talent around them to do well.
I agree with this assessment. I really wish the CoC Herd would slow down to realize this: CW is Fields v2.0 and he's going to need time to develop. He's not ready to take over a team. Beginning in 2021, Draft pundits were constantly hammering that there would be a dearth of QB talent coming out of the college ranks so teams had to get theirs then. Were they wrong? How many QBs were taken in the 1st round last year? Just 3. Three. The year before? Just 1. ONE. Out of those four, how many have hit? Just one. ONE.
Taking CW would just be starting over. So why do that? He's as slow on the release as Fields and his stats are based on the year prior to this one (here he had talent supporting him). In other words, replacing Fields with CW has NO NET GAIN other than in the financials. And Fields is that much ahead of him in development. People started labeling CW as a "generational" player because they just want to use the freakin' word. There was no one else reasonably close to the definition, so they put it on his head.
CW is anything but generational.
As for taking him in the draft... Fields has one year remaining so the cost is negligible; repeating the same thing OVER AND OVER has gotten the Bears NOTHING. What this team needs MORE THAN ANYTHING is consistency; from the field to the front office.
THAT will win games. Just look at the "Dynasty" teams; they drip in consistency.
Having said that, I want to refer to the recent Jalen Carter thread (where, ironically, his prospect assessment was based on his stats the year before his last in college).
What's going on with Carter is just another reason why I'm not high on CW. I admit, it's unfair to focus on that whole emotional moment that gets repeatedly mentioned, but it does bear repeating; it highlights the FACT that the guy is emotional about the game. There is no getting around that. And in the pros, it's going to be used against him. Just like Carter, it was ignored and now it's come back to haunt the Eagles.
And that's something in Fields favor. All other things being equal, Fields can handle the scrutiny... he's been able to take it. How much longer is up to debate. One thing is for certain...
Makes the most sense to move on from Fields when you have a generational prospect in your hands
I just hope the Bears get it right. This doesn't necessarily mean they like Caleb as their guy... could be Maye or someone else. Whatever they decide, I just want them to get it right - and if they draft a guy then my hope is that they are successful developing that guy. And I do believe they will.
Makes the most sense to move on from Fields when you have a generational prospect in your hands
I just hope the Bears get it right. This doesn't necessarily mean they like Caleb as their guy... could be Maye or someone else. Whatever they decide, I just want them to get it right - and if they draft a guy then my hope is that they are successful developing that guy. And I do believe they will.
Whoever the new rookie QB it is. 99% sure its Williams but you never know. It makes sense to move on from Fields. Year 4. Have to use the 5th year option on him or sign him long term. Fields floor is very low. His ceiling might be a Tier 2 QB. Williams allows you to reset the QB clock and has a higher ceiling. Maye also does the same.
I'm willing to take a gamble and reset the clock. Just makes the most sense with the #1 overall pick while still having the #9 overall pick. I would be ok if all 3 WRs are off the board and we trade back to get our 2nd round pick.