This morning I was remembering a comment that John Madden made during a game he was working in 1985 when the Bears defense was the darling of the NFL and everyone was gushing about the 46 defense - and Buddy Ryan was pretty much idolized by Bears fans.
John Madden said it all comes down to player talent. He said the players we were watching dominate opposition that year were the reason for the success - he said NOT the scheme. It's all about talent. Sure, coaches and schemes are important. But in the end it is all about the talent. If you lack it. You are not going to overcome that. I was thinking about that in our last game when Kmet and DJ Moore were dinged up and we watched the no-name guys trying to do their best imitation of NFL players... you know, guys who actually "belong" on an NFL team. It was a bit sobering.
You guys will jump on me for this but I've got to put it out there. We complain about the play calling. But how much of that is on the players who are simply not executing the plays? Some of it is on the players. JMO. I watch other teams running those EXACT same plays and the good teams execute those EXACT same plays and do it at a high-level. This past weekend I watched a lot of NFL football and commented to my wife about how those EXACT same plays don't work on the Bears. Then the "light bulb" went on in my head. The plays don't work because the talent is not there. I think many of us believe we have more talent on offense than we actually have. The plays don't work on the Bears due to the fact the players are not that good. The scheme and play calling can't overcome the lack of talent. No question Getsy is part of the problem. But I see other OC's calling these plays on teams with solid O players and they are balling on those plays. Talent. You either have it. Or you don't. We don't. Not enough of it anyway.
This morning I was remembering a comment that John Madden made during a game he was working in 1985 when the Bears defense was the darling of the NFL and everyone was gushing about the 46 defense - and Buddy Ryan was pretty much idolized by Bears fans.
John Madden said it all comes down to player talent. He said the players we were watching dominate opposition that year were the reason for the success - he said NOT the scheme. It's all about talent. Sure, coaches and schemes are important. But in the end it is all about the talent. If you lack it. You are not going to overcome that. I was thinking about that in our last game when Kmet and DJ Moore were dinged up and we watched the no-name guys trying to do their best imitation of NFL players... you know, guys who actually "belong" on an NFL team. It was a bit sobering.
You guys will jump on me for this but I've got to put it out there. We complain about the play calling. But how much of that is on the players who are simply not executing the plays? Some of it is on the players. JMO. I watch other teams running those EXACT same plays and the good teams execute those EXACT same plays and do it at a high-level. This past weekend I watched a lot of NFL football and commented to my wife about how those EXACT same plays don't work on the Bears. Then the "light bulb" went on in my head. The plays don't work because the talent is not there. I think many of us believe we have more talent on offense than we actually have. The plays don't work on the Bears due to the fact the players are not that good. The scheme and play calling can't overcome the lack of talent. No question Getsy is part of the problem. But I see other OC's calling these plays on teams with solid O players and they are balling on those plays. Talent. You either have it. Or you don't. We don't. Not enough of it anyway.
That sure is right. But its up to coaches to put right players on the field. And put those right players on the right positions. Coaching matters. A lot. Without Phil and Tex Bulls dont win 6 championships. Heck they almost got to the finals without MJ. Inches away.
This morning I was remembering a comment that John Madden made during a game he was working in 1985 when the Bears defense was the darling of the NFL and everyone was gushing about the 46 defense - and Buddy Ryan was pretty much idolized by Bears fans.
John Madden said it all comes down to player talent. He said the players we were watching dominate opposition that year were the reason for the success - he said NOT the scheme. It's all about talent. Sure, coaches and schemes are important. But in the end it is all about the talent. If you lack it. You are not going to overcome that. I was thinking about that in our last game when Kmet and DJ Moore were dinged up and we watched the no-name guys trying to do their best imitation of NFL players... you know, guys who actually "belong" on an NFL team. It was a bit sobering.
You guys will jump on me for this but I've got to put it out there. We complain about the play calling. But how much of that is on the players who are simply not executing the plays? Some of it is on the players. JMO. I watch other teams running those EXACT same plays and the good teams execute those EXACT same plays and do it at a high-level. This past weekend I watched a lot of NFL football and commented to my wife about how those EXACT same plays don't work on the Bears. Then the "light bulb" went on in my head. The plays don't work because the talent is not there. I think many of us believe we have more talent on offense than we actually have. The plays don't work on the Bears due to the fact the players are not that good. The scheme and play calling can't overcome the lack of talent. No question Getsy is part of the problem. But I see other OC's calling these plays on teams with solid O players and they are balling on those plays. Talent. You either have it. Or you don't. We don't. Not enough of it anyway.
I think coordination and communication between players is a third factor. The scheme won’t function unless each player understands what the guy next to him is going to do. The guy can have a ton of talent, but if he’s not doing what he supposed to do (e.g., cover the “B” gap), the scheme is not executed.
This morning I was remembering a comment that John Madden made during a game he was working in 1985 when the Bears defense was the darling of the NFL and everyone was gushing about the 46 defense - and Buddy Ryan was pretty much idolized by Bears fans.
John Madden said it all comes down to player talent. He said the players we were watching dominate opposition that year were the reason for the success - he said NOT the scheme. It's all about talent. Sure, coaches and schemes are important. But in the end it is all about the talent. If you lack it. You are not going to overcome that. I was thinking about that in our last game when Kmet and DJ Moore were dinged up and we watched the no-name guys trying to do their best imitation of NFL players... you know, guys who actually "belong" on an NFL team. It was a bit sobering.
You guys will jump on me for this but I've got to put it out there. We complain about the play calling. But how much of that is on the players who are simply not executing the plays? Some of it is on the players. JMO. I watch other teams running those EXACT same plays and the good teams execute those EXACT same plays and do it at a high-level. This past weekend I watched a lot of NFL football and commented to my wife about how those EXACT same plays don't work on the Bears. Then the "light bulb" went on in my head. The plays don't work because the talent is not there. I think many of us believe we have more talent on offense than we actually have. The plays don't work on the Bears due to the fact the players are not that good. The scheme and play calling can't overcome the lack of talent. No question Getsy is part of the problem. But I see other OC's calling these plays on teams with solid O players and they are balling on those plays. Talent. You either have it. Or you don't. We don't. Not enough of it anyway.
I agree JABF. This team still needs another legit receiver to pair with Moore. You see it with every good offense in the league, they have a 1a and 1b: in San Fran with Deebo and Aiyuk, in Cincy with Chase and Higgins, in Miami with Hill and Waddle, in Philly with Brown and Smith, etc, etc.
My only quibble is that I'd like to OC scheme more when he doesn't have the requisite talent. Take the Browns game for instance. Getsy was asking the receivers to win, but they weren't doing that. All Getsy did was bury his head in the sand and he kept on calling routes that took forever to develop deep down the field asking them over and over again to do something they had not shown the ability to do that game. Now as the coach its your job to adjust and scheme guys open. I got excited the first time I saw it in the 3rd or 4th quarter...but it looked like it only happened one or two more times after that. Did he think they didn't want to get open? They didn't have the ability to get open against that pass defense...so you have to help them win. Might be one of my biggest issues with Getsy. It took him forever last year to realize he had JAGS out there, and thats actually an insult to JAGS every where, to adjust the offense to take advantage of Fields strength. Same with this.
This morning I was remembering a comment that John Madden made during a game he was working in 1985 when the Bears defense was the darling of the NFL and everyone was gushing about the 46 defense - and Buddy Ryan was pretty much idolized by Bears fans.
John Madden said it all comes down to player talent. He said the players we were watching dominate opposition that year were the reason for the success - he said NOT the scheme. It's all about talent. Sure, coaches and schemes are important. But in the end it is all about the talent. If you lack it. You are not going to overcome that. I was thinking about that in our last game when Kmet and DJ Moore were dinged up and we watched the no-name guys trying to do their best imitation of NFL players... you know, guys who actually "belong" on an NFL team. It was a bit sobering.
You guys will jump on me for this but I've got to put it out there. We complain about the play calling. But how much of that is on the players who are simply not executing the plays? Some of it is on the players. JMO. I watch other teams running those EXACT same plays and the good teams execute those EXACT same plays and do it at a high-level. This past weekend I watched a lot of NFL football and commented to my wife about how those EXACT same plays don't work on the Bears. Then the "light bulb" went on in my head. The plays don't work because the talent is not there. I think many of us believe we have more talent on offense than we actually have. The plays don't work on the Bears due to the fact the players are not that good. The scheme and play calling can't overcome the lack of talent. No question Getsy is part of the problem. But I see other OC's calling these plays on teams with solid O players and they are balling on those plays. Talent. You either have it. Or you don't. We don't. Not enough of it anyway.
I agree JABF. This team still needs another legit receiver to pair with Moore. You see it with every good offense in the league, they have a 1a and 1b: in San Fran with Deebo and Aiyuk, in Cincy with Chase and Higgins, in Miami with Hill and Waddle, in Philly with Brown and Smith, etc, etc.
My only quibble is that I'd like to OC scheme more when he doesn't have the requisite talent. Take the Browns game for instance. Getsy was asking the receivers to win, but they weren't doing that. All Getsy did was bury his head in the sand and he kept on calling routes that took forever to develop deep down the field asking them over and over again to do something they had not shown the ability to do that game. Now as the coach its your job to adjust and scheme guys open. I got excited the first time I saw it in the 3rd or 4th quarter...but it looked like it only happened one or two more times after that. Did he think they didn't want to get open? They didn't have the ability to get open against that pass defense...so you have to help them win. Might be one of my biggest issues with Getsy. It took him forever last year to realize he had JAGS out there, and thats actually an insult to JAGS every where, to adjust the offense to take advantage of Fields strength. Same with this.
That's a good explanation and I do agree with that.
This morning I was remembering a comment that John Madden made during a game he was working in 1985 when the Bears defense was the darling of the NFL and everyone was gushing about the 46 defense - and Buddy Ryan was pretty much idolized by Bears fans.
John Madden said it all comes down to player talent. He said the players we were watching dominate opposition that year were the reason for the success - he said NOT the scheme. It's all about talent. Sure, coaches and schemes are important. But in the end it is all about the talent. If you lack it. You are not going to overcome that. I was thinking about that in our last game when Kmet and DJ Moore were dinged up and we watched the no-name guys trying to do their best imitation of NFL players... you know, guys who actually "belong" on an NFL team. It was a bit sobering.
You guys will jump on me for this but I've got to put it out there. We complain about the play calling. But how much of that is on the players who are simply not executing the plays? Some of it is on the players. JMO. I watch other teams running those EXACT same plays and the good teams execute those EXACT same plays and do it at a high-level. This past weekend I watched a lot of NFL football and commented to my wife about how those EXACT same plays don't work on the Bears. Then the "light bulb" went on in my head. The plays don't work because the talent is not there. I think many of us believe we have more talent on offense than we actually have. The plays don't work on the Bears due to the fact the players are not that good. The scheme and play calling can't overcome the lack of talent. No question Getsy is part of the problem. But I see other OC's calling these plays on teams with solid O players and they are balling on those plays. Talent. You either have it. Or you don't. We don't. Not enough of it anyway.
Oh you absolutely need talent to execute a scheme. And it is obvious when the talent is lacking. And I would just as well let John Madden be the voice of authority.
The Bears are void of talent in the skill areas and the offensive line is not done. They're in the same shape the defense was last year and those people are starting to gel. Both are nothing near dominant (yet). But coaching is telling on this team. Sure, some of the plays called can be executed with more talent but when I see two RB dives followed by a chunk attempt, I start to question the talent of the OC. As it turns out, that hasn't stopped -at all- this season.
Post by brasilbear on Dec 26, 2023 18:50:28 GMT -6
For some reason I always blame coaching before players. Its my blind spot. So while I don't believe the Bears have a collection of All-Pros, I do think they have average players (jags) who aren't being put into positions that will help them win. If I had to make a list of fault it would go like this:
Scheme/Playcalling/Getsy Flus -- conservative DEF minded HC Players/Poles
I agree JABF. This team still needs another legit receiver to pair with Moore. You see it with every good offense in the league, they have a 1a and 1b: in San Fran with Deebo and Aiyuk, in Cincy with Chase and Higgins, in Miami with Hill and Waddle, in Philly with Brown and Smith, etc, etc.
My only quibble is that I'd like to OC scheme more when he doesn't have the requisite talent. Take the Browns game for instance. Getsy was asking the receivers to win, but they weren't doing that. All Getsy did was bury his head in the sand and he kept on calling routes that took forever to develop deep down the field asking them over and over again to do something they had not shown the ability to do that game. Now as the coach its your job to adjust and scheme guys open. I got excited the first time I saw it in the 3rd or 4th quarter...but it looked like it only happened one or two more times after that. Did he think they didn't want to get open? They didn't have the ability to get open against that pass defense...so you have to help them win. Might be one of my biggest issues with Getsy. It took him forever last year to realize he had JAGS out there, and thats actually an insult to JAGS every where, to adjust the offense to take advantage of Fields strength. Same with this.
That's a good explanation and I do agree with that.
I agree with all this. Just to add to it the over under fir the Bears was 7.5 games to win for the season. Once again Vegas and national media told us we would be average at best and once again they were correct. All the items discussed play into the over under line
This morning I was remembering a comment that John Madden made during a game he was working in 1985 when the Bears defense was the darling of the NFL and everyone was gushing about the 46 defense - and Buddy Ryan was pretty much idolized by Bears fans.
John Madden said it all comes down to player talent. He said the players we were watching dominate opposition that year were the reason for the success - he said NOT the scheme. It's all about talent. Sure, coaches and schemes are important. But in the end it is all about the talent. If you lack it. You are not going to overcome that. I was thinking about that in our last game when Kmet and DJ Moore were dinged up and we watched the no-name guys trying to do their best imitation of NFL players... you know, guys who actually "belong" on an NFL team. It was a bit sobering.
You guys will jump on me for this but I've got to put it out there. We complain about the play calling. But how much of that is on the players who are simply not executing the plays? Some of it is on the players. JMO. I watch other teams running those EXACT same plays and the good teams execute those EXACT same plays and do it at a high-level. This past weekend I watched a lot of NFL football and commented to my wife about how those EXACT same plays don't work on the Bears. Then the "light bulb" went on in my head. The plays don't work because the talent is not there. I think many of us believe we have more talent on offense than we actually have. The plays don't work on the Bears due to the fact the players are not that good. The scheme and play calling can't overcome the lack of talent. No question Getsy is part of the problem. But I see other OC's calling these plays on teams with solid O players and they are balling on those plays. Talent. You either have it. Or you don't. We don't. Not enough of it anyway.
I agree JABF. This team still needs another legit receiver to pair with Moore. You see it with every good offense in the league, they have a 1a and 1b: in San Fran with Deebo and Aiyuk, in Cincy with Chase and Higgins, in Miami with Hill and Waddle, in Philly with Brown and Smith, etc, etc.
My only quibble is that I'd like to OC scheme more when he doesn't have the requisite talent. Take the Browns game for instance. Getsy was asking the receivers to win, but they weren't doing that. All Getsy did was bury his head in the sand and he kept on calling routes that took forever to develop deep down the field asking them over and over again to do something they had not shown the ability to do that game. Now as the coach it’s your job to adjust and scheme guys open. I got excited the first time I saw it in the 3rd or 4th quarter...but it looked like it only happened one or two more times after that. Did he think they didn't want to get open? They didn't have the ability to get open against that pass defense...so you have to help them win. Might be one of my biggest issues with Getsy. It took him forever last year to realize he had JAGS out there, and thats actually an insult to JAGS every where, to adjust the offense to take advantage of Fields strength. Same with this.
This is a bit off topic, but which position has more positional value: center or right guard? Or are they equal? IOW, if your center and right guard are equally bad, which is the greater need to upgrade?
I agree JABF. This team still needs another legit receiver to pair with Moore. You see it with every good offense in the league, they have a 1a and 1b: in San Fran with Deebo and Aiyuk, in Cincy with Chase and Higgins, in Miami with Hill and Waddle, in Philly with Brown and Smith, etc, etc.
My only quibble is that I'd like to OC scheme more when he doesn't have the requisite talent. Take the Browns game for instance. Getsy was asking the receivers to win, but they weren't doing that. All Getsy did was bury his head in the sand and he kept on calling routes that took forever to develop deep down the field asking them over and over again to do something they had not shown the ability to do that game. Now as the coach it’s your job to adjust and scheme guys open. I got excited the first time I saw it in the 3rd or 4th quarter...but it looked like it only happened one or two more times after that. Did he think they didn't want to get open? They didn't have the ability to get open against that pass defense...so you have to help them win. Might be one of my biggest issues with Getsy. It took him forever last year to realize he had JAGS out there, and thats actually an insult to JAGS every where, to adjust the offense to take advantage of Fields strength. Same with this.
This is a bit off topic, but which position has more positional value: center or right guard? Or are they equal? IOW, if your center and right guard are equally bad, which is the greater need to upgrade?
A great C is the quarterback of the OL. He anchors the interior. He is the multiplier that is missing on our OL... the guy who can help BOTH guards play better. Obviously the G position is important too. But the C is more important. It is killing our IOL play. And it hurts the QB when there isn't a pocket to step up into and work out of on many of the plays. Also, he has to try and catch those wild snaps on far to any plays too. Those off-target snaps are so distracting for a QB and just makes plays harder to execute. And sure, when the pocket is collapsed, Fields can run/roll out and try to make a play (often he does), but next season I'd like to see an absolute stud center as the foundation piece of that IOL. JMO.