You keep saying White is too raw and not very good when no one knows for sure what he is. He hasn't played enough for any of us to know. You can't use injury as an excuse to why a player is not good and was a bad pick. No one could have known he would have two season injuries in his first two years.
Even without the injury.
Don't you find it strange that we drafted a WR who only had 1 good year in college while also having a very limited route tree that year? Who's only success seems to be speed and size. That isn't going to work well in the NFL and we're seeing the results.
I don't find it strange at all. White was the player I wanted the Bears to draft that year with their first pick. White was also considered to be the best player for the Bears to pick at that position that year by many people. It wasn't some huge reach like you keep suggesting. There were plenty of experts that actually had White rated above Cooper. Most had them very close to be even.
Don't you find it strange that we drafted a WR who only had 1 good year in college while also having a very limited route tree that year? Who's only success seems to be speed and size. That isn't going to work well in the NFL and we're seeing the results.
I don't find it strange at all. White was the player I wanted the Bears to draft that year with their first pick. White was also considered to be the best player for the Bears to pick at that position that year by many people. It wasn't some huge reach like you keep suggesting. There were plenty of experts that actually had White rated above Cooper. Most had them very close to be even.
Look how those experts turn out wrong. The combine and the last year of a players career in college can easily overrated a player. Cooper was a fast player on the field who had great route running ability with great hands. White on the other hand was known for his size and speed. Cooper wasn't that much smaller than White and his speed that matched White's if you don't use the overrated combine. Difference between the two was Cooper had success much longer than White.
White was never truly on Coopers level.
I believe we picked up White because Pace wanted to justify getting rid of Marshall.
I don't find it strange at all. White was the player I wanted the Bears to draft that year with their first pick. White was also considered to be the best player for the Bears to pick at that position that year by many people. It wasn't some huge reach like you keep suggesting. There were plenty of experts that actually had White rated above Cooper. Most had them very close to be even.
Look how those experts turn out wrong. The combine and the last year of a players career in college can easily overrated a player. Cooper was a fast player on the field who had great route running ability with great hands. White on the other hand was known for his size and speed. Cooper wasn't that much smaller than White and his speed that matched White's if you don't use the overrated combine. Difference between the two was Cooper had success much longer than White.
White was never truly on Coopers level.
I believe we picked up White because Pace wanted to justify getting rid of Marshall.
You really need to stop talking about White like you know what kind of player he is. You have no freaking clue what you are talking about because you've only seen him play a few games.
You don't see me on here constantly saying how White is a stud and is going to tear it up because I don't know either. All I've been saying is I want to see him play a full season before I declare him a stud or a dud. I know he has a lot of potential and I have some faith in him yet. It's a shame injuries have pushed him so far back.
Look how those experts turn out wrong. The combine and the last year of a players career in college can easily overrated a player. Cooper was a fast player on the field who had great route running ability with great hands. White on the other hand was known for his size and speed. Cooper wasn't that much smaller than White and his speed that matched White's if you don't use the overrated combine. Difference between the two was Cooper had success much longer than White.
White was never truly on Coopers level.
I believe we picked up White because Pace wanted to justify getting rid of Marshall.
You really need to stop talking about White like you know what kind of player he is. You have no freaking clue what you are talking about because you've only seen him play a few games.
You don't see me on here constantly saying how White is a stud and is going to tear it up because I don't know either. All I've been saying is I want to see him play a full season before I declare him a stud or a dud. I know he has a lot of potential and I have some faith in him yet. It's a shame injuries have pushed him so far back.
How can you go around calling him a stud when there is nothing pointing in that direction?
I'm doing what others do with positive guys. I call out what I see. 2 years with only 3 games played. That isn't good...
You really need to stop talking about White like you know what kind of player he is. You have no freaking clue what you are talking about because you've only seen him play a few games.
You don't see me on here constantly saying how White is a stud and is going to tear it up because I don't know either. All I've been saying is I want to see him play a full season before I declare him a stud or a dud. I know he has a lot of potential and I have some faith in him yet. It's a shame injuries have pushed him so far back.
How can you go around calling him a stud when there is nothing pointing in that direction?
I'm doing what others do with positive guys. I call out what I see. 2 years with only 3 games played. That isn't good...
I don't think you're comprehending what I've been saying. I have never said he is a stud. My post you quoted even says that I want to see him play a full season before I declare him a stud or a dud. I'm just optimistic because I still have some faith in his talent. I don't think anyone has denied that the kid doesn't have talent, it's just raw yet.
One more thing, quite using the amount of games he's played as a reason to why you think he's not a good football player. That has nothing to do with being a good football player. I suppose Bo Jackson wasn't all that great because he didn't play that many season because he got hurt. I know that was a major stretch but that's how dumb I feel your comments are on his games played.
To be fair, when pace drafted a WR at #7 who only had 1 good season in college that was an idiot type move. We're paying for it. Kevin White is far to raw to ever really be worth a top 10 pick.
The only WR that was ever worth a top 10 pick that year was Cooper and that is if you have your new franchise QB needed a new weapon.
This team had so many holes that it was kinda foolish to waste a 1st round pick on a WR.
You keep saying White is too raw and not very good when no one knows for sure what he is. He hasn't played enough for any of us to know. You can't use injury as an excuse to why a player is not good and was a bad pick. No one could have known he would have two season injuries in his first two years.
Considering both of your posts Hawk here's my point of view. For me to analyze Paces drafts I have to step back and look at the big picture AND Fox's possible input.
Fox and Fangio needed a 3-4 OLB pass rusher and the offense needed true Slot WR to run the offense they wanted. To accommodate that Pace needs cap so Marshall became the trade off for McPhee and Royal and with the 7th pick he'll have two probable picks at WR. To me there was never any doubt that Cooper was the better choice for us as replacement for Marshall and I think many had Oakland pegged to take KW due to his size and speed as a downfield threat. Ooops, that's the old Oakland. They got smart and took the more NFL ready after all and left us with Mr. Upside.
So the initial plan may have been sound but the picks didn't favor us and the other alternative, which was to take a 5 tech DE instead, came off the board one pick before us. I wasn't in the "war room" but I'd bet a buck both Cooper and Leo Williams were both ranked higher than KW on the Bears board. It wasn't so much bad drafting as it was a combination of bad luck and counting our chickens to soon by trading Marshall before we had his replacement. IMHO Fox's input in this was huge.
This years 1st round was a no brainer but it wasn't until we knew what they already knew about McPhee but kept silent about. Pace had to draft an OLB/Pass Rusher as a hedge against McPhee not being able to play period let alone like he did. He wasn't about to risk being one pick too late again and losing another guy he wanted for the defense so they jumped NY to get him. It was a given but where I think Fox leaned in on this one hard was with those 4th round picks which saw Pace passing on Prescott.
Why? I know I'm gonna get shot down for at least some of this but I call 'em as I see 'em. In somewhat this order; Rookie, Mobile, Not a Pocket Passer, Black. Basically Prescott didn't fit his image of his QB anymore than Cam Newton would have in Carolina. Fox likes to use a play action passing game playing off a strong running game. He's not much into QB mobility and planned rollouts and boots which was fine in Denver since Manning couldn't run them anyway but it's also why he resisted playing Tebow over Orton his first year here in Denver even though Orton was the equivalent of a Hoyer as a QB. No arm either and losing most games he played because of it.
The thing Bears fans need to understand about Fox is he's not at all flexible. He only knows how to do it his way offensively with a RBC and a pocket passer so it's natural that he would favor Hoyer over Cutler even when Cutler was obviously the better QB. Anyone who believes his BS about Cutler being his guy all along is only falling for the same BS and half truths he's been pedaling ever since he arrived. He's hurt this team and set it farther back more than he's helped it and he needs to go.
Now, the problem becomes by passing on drafting QBs two year in a row simply because Fox professed his trust in and preference for staying with Cutler we are now faced with the possibility of getting rid of another productive offensive player before we've adequately replaced him. If Fox is retained and Pace does this on Fox's say so after having flip flopped on Cutler for two years then Pace should be fired too because he's allowed his HC to paint him into a corner and jeopardize his job.
IMHO the only truly sane moves now are to fire Fox at year end and hire a new HC. Let the new HC decide what he would like to do about Cutler. He's under contract and may be recovering from shoulder surgery so there's no rush on what to do about him but there is with Fox. They should not let him poison the well one more year. He's made far too many poor personnel decisions and he brushes his mistakes and his failures off far too often and far too easily while never blaming himself or accepting any responsibility for them.
He will throw you under the bus if it takes the heat off of him and it would be smart for Ryan Pace to see that if he hasn't already. We may need a change at QB for everyone's sake but the Bears and Bears fans definitely need a change at HC before that happens.