Let's Talk About The Heart Of The Matter.................

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Let's Talk About The Heart Of The Matter................. Nov 9, 2016 0:29:45 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 0:29:45 GMT -6

Nov 8, 2016 11:40:43 GMT -6 JABF said:

Nov 8, 2016 8:16:32 GMT -6 @bearsinhouston said:

I am not a fan of firing Pace at all. I like what he has done. As far as Fox, I think we would be better off without him, but it would not break my heart to see him stay. I do think that someone else, if he were the right person would be better for us.

+1
I'm not disagreeing with you, so much as I'm disappointed how this is all playing out. Some will be thrilled if Fox is fired. Me, I'm just seeing it as a necessary evil if that happens, because it will probably mean we roll the dice on yet another HC and who knows if they will get it right this time. And even if they do get the right coach, yes, I'm happy about that, but it's still delaying the rebuild to some extent. Especially if the new guy will have different schemes that requires some other roster moves. And who knows if Vic Fangio will stay if we dump Fox. Maybe. Maybe not.

It's just another roll of the dice to me. I was so hoping Fox, with solid coordinators, could get it done for us.

So was I but so far he's clearly not done that despite some heroic work by his defensive staff. So it's simple. If he can he stays and if he can't he goes. In my mind sending Fox packing doesn't necessarily mean all of the staff and coordinators go too. We've retained people in the past during HC changes and that can easily happen again.

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Let's Talk About The Heart Of The Matter................. Nov 9, 2016 0:33:09 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 0:33:09 GMT -6

Nov 8, 2016 12:05:03 GMT -6 JABF said:

Nov 8, 2016 8:33:52 GMT -6 @soulman said:

With all due respect to both you and Payton, I did take it that way and I've posted at length my reasons for it. But you're right, wanting and doing aren't the same.

Like I've said before the McCaskeys are great fans but poor owners and having a non-football Team President/CEO like Ted Phillips is just one more piece of evidence of why they all too often allow their loyalties to certain people color their decisions about what's best for the team. It's not the Bears "brand" I'm talking about here or anything else other than the on the field product.

Ted Phillips has on more than one occasion chosen to prioritize other matters over that and IMHO as long as he retains any say whatsoever in football operations this team will never regain it's status as a flagship NFL franchise. And just so I'm 100% clear on that nothing anyone can say will alter that opinion.

That's fair enough. I think we both just want the team to win. What's that old saying... something like even a blind squirrel eventually finds a nut. I was hoping Pace/Fox was the nut found by Philips the blind squirrel :-)

There's on more point I should make. Jay Cutler's W/L record as the Bears QB is far better than Ted Phillips W/L record as the Bears CEO so why are we always talking about dumping Cutler but Teddy Bears gets a pass? That makes no sense to me. At least Cutler knows football.

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Let's Talk About The Heart Of The Matter................. Nov 9, 2016 9:13:35 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Nov 9, 2016 9:13:35 GMT -6

Nov 9, 2016 0:29:45 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Nov 8, 2016 11:40:43 GMT -6 JABF said:

+1
I'm not disagreeing with you, so much as I'm disappointed how this is all playing out. Some will be thrilled if Fox is fired. Me, I'm just seeing it as a necessary evil if that happens, because it will probably mean we roll the dice on yet another HC and who knows if they will get it right this time. And even if they do get the right coach, yes, I'm happy about that, but it's still delaying the rebuild to some extent. Especially if the new guy will have different schemes that requires some other roster moves. And who knows if Vic Fangio will stay if we dump Fox. Maybe. Maybe not.

It's just another roll of the dice to me. I was so hoping Fox, with solid coordinators, could get it done for us.

So was I but so far he's clearly not done that despite some heroic work by his defensive staff. So it's simple. If he can he stays and if he can't he goes. In my mind sending Fox packing doesn't necessarily mean all of the staff and coordinators go too. We've retained people in the past during HC changes and that can easily happen again.

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Let's Talk About The Heart Of The Matter................. Nov 9, 2016 9:16:28 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Nov 9, 2016 9:16:28 GMT -6

Nov 9, 2016 0:29:45 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Nov 8, 2016 11:40:43 GMT -6 JABF said:

+1
I'm not disagreeing with you, so much as I'm disappointed how this is all playing out. Some will be thrilled if Fox is fired. Me, I'm just seeing it as a necessary evil if that happens, because it will probably mean we roll the dice on yet another HC and who knows if they will get it right this time. And even if they do get the right coach, yes, I'm happy about that, but it's still delaying the rebuild to some extent. Especially if the new guy will have different schemes that requires some other roster moves. And who knows if Vic Fangio will stay if we dump Fox. Maybe. Maybe not.

It's just another roll of the dice to me. I was so hoping Fox, with solid coordinators, could get it done for us.

So was I but so far he's clearly not done that despite some heroic work by his defensive staff. So it's simple. If he can he stays and if he can't he goes. In my mind sending Fox packing doesn't necessarily mean all of the staff and coordinators go too. We've retained people in the past during HC changes and that can easily happen again.

That's true, but most often a new HC wants to bring in his own coordinators. And the old coordinators may not want to work for the new HC anyway. Vic Fangio could get a DC job with a top-tier team pretty easily. He could write his own ticket. I think the only reason he came here was John Fox being the HC here.

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Let's Talk About The Heart Of The Matter................. Nov 9, 2016 9:25:17 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Nov 9, 2016 9:25:17 GMT -6

Nov 9, 2016 0:33:09 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Nov 8, 2016 12:05:03 GMT -6 JABF said:

That's fair enough. I think we both just want the team to win. What's that old saying... something like even a blind squirrel eventually finds a nut. I was hoping Pace/Fox was the nut found by Philips the blind squirrel :-)

There's on more point I should make. Jay Cutler's W/L record as the Bears QB is far better than Ted Phillips W/L record as the Bears CEO so why are we always talking about dumping Cutler but Teddy Bears gets a pass? That makes no sense to me. At least Cutler knows football.

I'm not pro or anti Cutler. I recognize the fact though, that he is not going to be around forever. I'm still angry over the fact we never had a post-Urlacher plan when Brian was clearly getting up there in age. I don't want to see a repeat of that debacle. Learn from the past. We need a plan for the post-Cutler era. Be proactive here.

Regarding Phillips, I get it that some focus on him as our problem. And they could be right. But my personal focus is on the players and coaches that our GM is directly responsible for. I am still holding out hope that Pace can be a solid GM for us. If so, then I don't care what people like Phillips are doing. But that's just me. I understand others views that are different here.

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Let's Talk About The Heart Of The Matter................. Nov 9, 2016 10:18:26 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 10:18:26 GMT -6

Nov 9, 2016 9:16:28 GMT -6 JABF said:

Nov 9, 2016 0:29:45 GMT -6 @soulman said:

So was I but so far he's clearly not done that despite some heroic work by his defensive staff. So it's simple. If he can he stays and if he can't he goes. In my mind sending Fox packing doesn't necessarily mean all of the staff and coordinators go too. We've retained people in the past during HC changes and that can easily happen again.

That's true, but most often a new HC wants to bring in his own coordinators. And the old coordinators may not want to work for the new HC anyway. Vic Fangio could get a DC job with a top-tier team pretty easily. He could write his own ticket. I think the only reason he came here was John Fox being the HC here.

Possibly but then he's pretty damn close to having a built a top tier defense here already. One more year and staying a lot healthier should do it. Now all we need is an offense that can match it and if we don't blow it all up to start over again I think that's possible too.

If they can do that there's no need to fire Fox or at least not until we've found out whether he's learned anything from his ouster out here. Being too conservative and and stuck on '90s style offensive football cost him his job eventually. I also believe it's had a negative impact on our offense this year and if that doesn't change we won't win a championship with him.

If that's the eventual goal and we realize he can't get us there then at some point in time we have to make a change just as we will at QB if Cutler isn't a guy who can win a championship. The only questions with both is the "if" and the "when" part.

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Let's Talk About The Heart Of The Matter................. Nov 9, 2016 19:17:28 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by paytonisgod on Nov 9, 2016 19:17:28 GMT -6

Nov 8, 2016 8:17:46 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Nov 7, 2016 14:36:19 GMT -6 paytonisgod said:

Why in the world would Phillips not care about having a winning team? They would certainly make more money if they were a consistently winning team. His comment came during a time when the Bears were losing. It was meant to show that the team's finances don't vary wildly from season to season simply on their win/loss performance. I guarantee you Phillips would be much happier with a winning team.

I'm sure he would too but that's still not the point I was making. To me the smoking gun was the comment he made (need to find the podcast if I can) about it being "nice to win" but that it did not affect the teams relationship with it corporate sponsors. It was said in a very casual manner as if to say this is how I do business.

That's great Ted but it does affect the teams relationship with it's fans and a comment about that was notably absent in what he expressed. That's the point I was making.

Payton if this kind of attitude had not been an earmark of the Michael McCaskey era AND it was not the second time I've heard Phillips promote team profits over on the field performance I tend to let it slide as well but that's not the case. Ted Phillips is a throwback to that era and IMHO he should be replaced.

I understand your frustration and have it too, nor do I have an answer. But while Phillips has intervened in the past on a few things I've not seen any evidence that results on the field are in anyway tied to him. Not recently anyway. So I get a little annoyed when he is pointed to as "That's what is wrong with the team." There are a lot of things that are contributing to the team's lack of performance lately but I don't think anything Phillips is doing, or has done, is anywhere near the real problems.

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Let's Talk About The Heart Of The Matter.................

Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 0:29:45 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 0:33:09 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Nov 9, 2016 9:13:35 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Nov 9, 2016 9:16:28 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Nov 9, 2016 9:25:17 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 10:18:26 GMT -6

Post by paytonisgod on Nov 9, 2016 19:17:28 GMT -6