What would you rather have?

hawkeye21
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What would you rather have? Nov 2, 2016 15:28:25 GMT -6

Post by hawkeye21 on Nov 2, 2016 15:28:25 GMT -6

Nov 2, 2016 14:37:32 GMT -6 motm said:

Nov 2, 2016 14:32:34 GMT -6 hawkeye21 said:

Cutler was hurt and Hoyer was playing just good enough. If that was his strategy he would have played Barkley on Monday.

I don't think Fox is a good game day coach, that's why he didn't make the adjustments.

Cutler had a sprain thumb. You telling me he wasn't ready to come back after a week?

He played Cutler on Monday because he had no choice. Words of Cutler himself...

This is the same man who thought:

Langford > Howard
White > Meredith
Floyd > Houston
Loggains > A real OC

I honestly think Fox just sucks and deciding which players to start. He's always had his so called RB by committee which just sucks in my opinion.

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What would you rather have? Nov 2, 2016 15:34:33 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2016 15:34:33 GMT -6

Nov 2, 2016 12:42:21 GMT -6 motm said:

Nov 2, 2016 5:43:50 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Tell McPhee these wins are meaningless.
Tell Freeman these wins are meaningless.
Tell Trevatham these wins are meaningless.
Tell Young these wins are meaningless.
Tell Porter these wins are meaningless.
Tell Jeffery these wins are meaningless.
Tell Miller these wins are meaningless.

Tell Howard not to run so hard because these wins are meaningless.
Tell Meredith not to improve as a receiver because these wins are meaningless.
Tell the young secondary to stop trying to improve technique be wise these wins are meaningless.

Do you not understand that every week could be the last game for these players? Can I be there when you tell McPhee that he doesn't need to try so hard because you want to draft another pass rusher to take his place?

How about telling the HC that these wins were meaningful early on in the season?

Instead he played his players regardless if they were the better player.

We're 2-6 and out of the playoff picture. This season is over already. Fox seems to be mailing it in as well.

Its a big difference being 4-4 rather than 2-6. One has a shot at the playoffs while the other needs to win every single game to even has a chance...

All of that is true but what does it have to do with playing to lose?

I'll say this again just one more time. What great NFL HC that you know of has intentionally tanked a season just so he could draft one particular player when he isn't even sure in November exactly who that player may be in April or whether he'll be able to get him? Gimme one team and one name you can prove this theory by.

You don't develop young players into a winning culture by insisting the lose until you tell 'em it's OK to win again and then expect them to do that like you flipped on a light in your bathroom. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.

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xaosgorilla Backup Posts: 180 Likes: 204	What would you rather have? Nov 2, 2016 15:46:27 GMT -6 Post by xaosgorilla on Nov 2, 2016 15:46:27 GMT -6 The Bears have a Bye week next week. We may want to take it easy on this thread, it may have to last. Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	professional armchair quarterbacks and other oxymora...

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What would you rather have? Nov 2, 2016 15:53:56 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2016 15:53:56 GMT -6

Nov 2, 2016 12:46:03 GMT -6 hawkeye21 said:

Nov 2, 2016 12:38:29 GMT -6 motm said:

How many AFC Champion titles does BB have without Brady as a HC? How about Super Bowl? Just cause you have a good system doesn't mean your Super Bowl Bound every year. The year Brady wasn't there they went 11-5 with a 16-0 team...

They missed the playoffs. BB success depends on Brady. He is the best QB to play the game after all. BB wouldn't be getting rid of his best defensive players if he didn't have a HoF QB there.

NFL is a passing league. You have a shit QB you ain't going far in today's game...

Care to explain how the Broncos won last year? Have you looked at the past winners? One out of five years had a great QB.

2016 Broncos with crappy QB and great defense.
2015 Patriots with great QB and overall team.
2014 Seahawks with a decent QB and great defense.
2013 Ravens with an average QB and great defense.
2012 Giants with and average QB and good defense.

Exactly what I said too Hawk. The Pats were that one exception to the rule otherwise the more dominant defense won the game and that pretty much follows back for 50 years or so.

The "Steel Curtain", The Purple People Eaters, The Doomsday Defense, The Bears 46 Defense, The Orange Crush. Even in 2006 when the Bears last made the SB our defense was good enough to win but our offense was not or maybe we could have still pulled it off it we'd have played Chico's way and not Lovie's or Sexy Rexy hadn't thrown a pick 6.

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What would you rather have? Nov 2, 2016 15:55:17 GMT -6 xaosgorilla likes this

Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2016 15:55:17 GMT -6

Nov 2, 2016 15:46:27 GMT -6 xaosgorilla said:

The Bears have a Bye week next week. We may want to take it easy on this thread, it may have to last.

I have a watering can and a bucket of kerosene and can use whichever will be more effective.

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motm
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What would you rather have? Nov 2, 2016 16:35:22 GMT -6

Post by motm on Nov 2, 2016 16:35:22 GMT -6

Nov 2, 2016 15:53:56 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Nov 2, 2016 12:46:03 GMT -6 hawkeye21 said:

Care to explain how the Broncos won last year? Have you looked at the past winners? One out of five years had a great QB.

2016 Broncos with crappy QB and great defense.
2015 Patriots with great QB and overall team.
2014 Seahawks with a decent QB and great defense.
2013 Ravens with an average QB and great defense.
2012 Giants with and average QB and good defense.

Exactly what I said too Hawk. The Pats were that one exception to the rule otherwise the more dominant defense won the game and that pretty much follows back for 50 years or so.

The "Steel Curtain", The Purple People Eaters, The Doomsday Defense, The Bears 46 Defense, The Orange Crush. Even in 2006 when the Bears last made the SB our defense was good enough to win but our offense was not or maybe we could have still pulled it off it we'd have played Chico's way and not Lovie's or Sexy Rexy hadn't thrown a pick 6.

Joe Montana 4 rings
Tom Brady 4 rings
Roger Staubach 3 rings
Terry Bradshaw 4 rings
Brett Star 2 rings 5 NFL Championships
Sid Luckman 4 NFL Championships
Ben Roethlisberger 2 rings

If our Bears team had a QB in 86 we would be back to back Super Bowl winners. We had a even better defense than 85...

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Last Edit: Nov 2, 2016 16:37:12 GMT -6 by motm

moth
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What would you rather have? Nov 2, 2016 16:59:24 GMT -6

Post by moth on Nov 2, 2016 16:59:24 GMT -6

Nov 2, 2016 13:53:47 GMT -6 @bearsinhouston said:

Nov 2, 2016 13:43:38 GMT -6 hawkeye21 said:

But wouldn't you like to see the team improve every week? Don't you think that builds towards a winning culture and can spill over into the next season? I think that's more important than a top 3 pick. They can still try and win games and end up with a top 8 pick. I think that's still high enough for a great draft pick.

But improving is not winning. Not until you hit that tipping point Xaos talks about. So you can want the team to improve but still hope they lose to get the pick. When you are out of it, winning does not matter so much. Improving does. Now the winning culture thing.... yes, that is real, but it is also subjective if it is more or less important than the high pick. I say less because that culture does not carry over for sure. People change and believe me, when you play well, that swagger develops awfully fast. You don't need last year. The flip side is when you play bad, last year does not matter either. you can be down even if last year was good. The pick is real. It is something that you can use to make the team better. So for me, that is more important. Others might think that I am totally off base. But it's still an opinion.

These are NFL professionals, not kids. While small improvements throughout the year dont go unnoticed it still isnt winning. These guys arent going to take solace with their minor improvements, they want to win football games.
To say that winning cultures dont carry over is plainly ignorant. The best teams in every league continue to be the best and they all do it without having to dip into the top 5 of their respective drafts.

Winning Culture is a real thing, more real than a top 3 pick who may/may not pan out, while winning teams who breed their young players to be winning players has substantial being. How else can you explain how every sport has teams that seem to stay on top year after year after year, while there are also teams that seem to be drafting in the same top 5 spot year after year after year?

The NHL has the Red Wings and the Blue Jackets
The NFL has the Patriots/Packers and the Texans/Browns/Jaguars
The NBA has the Spurs and the 76ers

Why is it that the former teams kep drafting at the end of the draft and still continue to do well while the latter teams continue to circle the drain year after year? It's because of the culture and what comes with it.

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moth
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What would you rather have? Nov 2, 2016 17:04:08 GMT -6

Post by moth on Nov 2, 2016 17:04:08 GMT -6

Nov 2, 2016 14:37:32 GMT -6 motm said:

He played Cutler on Monday because he had no choice. Words of Cutler himself...

This is the same man who thought:

Langford > Howard
White > Meredith
Floyd > Houston
Loggains > A real OC

You speak like you're at practice every day or something...

Do you really think that John Fox sat in the office while Fangio and the other staff were touting how good Howard, Houston and Meredith were but he just blatantly chose to ignore them?

Or is it maybe more likely that some of these players were outperforming in practice and the secondary players maybe did a good job of stepping up in their place?

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Last Edit: Nov 2, 2016 17:05:30 GMT -6 by moth

jusnixx Starter Posts: 622 Likes: 708	What would you rather have? Nov 2, 2016 17:17:29 GMT -6 via mobile Post by jusnixx on Nov 2, 2016 17:17:29 GMT -6 There is no such thing as a "meaningless" win. I'll take wins all day everyday over a higher draft pick. Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

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What would you rather have? Nov 2, 2016 17:18:21 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2016 17:18:21 GMT -6

Nov 2, 2016 13:02:28 GMT -6 motm said:

Nov 2, 2016 12:46:03 GMT -6 hawkeye21 said:

Care to explain how the Broncos won last year? Have you looked at the past winners? One out of five years had a great QB.

2016 Broncos with crappy QB and great defense.
2015 Patriots with great QB and overall team.
2014 Seahawks with a decent QB and great defense.
2013 Ravens with an average QB and great defense.
2012 Giants with and average QB and good defense.

Broncos won with a HoF QB...
Patriots won with a HoF QB...
Seahawks won with a GREAT QB and great defense. Wilson career QBR is 100.5 That's not decent that's elite level...
Ravens I agree with that one
Gaints Eli played at a top 10 level his 2012 year and had great D-line. Let's not pretend that a Patriots dropped pass didn't help them.

Broncos won with a HoF QB...Who played one of the worst games of his career. The defense strangled Newton and the Panthers and dominated.

Patriots won with a HoF QB...Agreed

Seahawks won with a GREAT QB and great defense. Wilson career QBR is 100.5 That's not decent that's elite level...Say what you like but it was the Seahawks defense that won that one by strangling Manning's passing game and forcing turnovers. Wilson only threw for about 200 yards. It was as big a mismatch as the '85 Bears vs NE in SB XX.

Ravens I agree with that one...Uh huh, I should say so.

Gaints Eli played at a top 10 level his 2012 year and had great D-line. Let's not pretend that a Patriots dropped pass didn't help them...Actually it was his 2011 stats and they were about the same as Cutler had in 2015 so was his performance top ten and elite? I will say that Eli had a great SB game but it was basically the Giants defense that got them there so we can call this one a push if you like.

Hawk is right Monsters. All but the SB won by the Pats were basically won by the team who dominated defensively. Even in the 2012 SB the Giants defense was pretty effective in shutting down Brady and keeping him off the field.

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Post by hawkeye21 on Nov 2, 2016 15:28:25 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2016 15:53:56 GMT -6

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Post by motm on Nov 2, 2016 16:35:22 GMT -6

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