I just want to see Fales play some in preseason. If you really only want someone that can win "a few games" in a backup, why not draft one instead of shelling out for cast offs? A starter recovering from injury is one thing, but Hoyer did not look good as a Texan either.
I think Connor Shaw was the substitute for not drafting a QB this year and it was working out pretty good 'til last Saturday.
The NFL, if anything, is very set in it's ways and thinking and the conventional thinking is that you want your #2 QB to be a guy whose actually played and started some NFL games before. The problem with that approach is that the pickin's are thin for those types who'll play for a backups pay check.
The last time we had a backup with virtually zero starting experience it was Hanie and that didn't work out well either so can we really expect that we'd be any better off with Fales the way he's played so far? Shaw was a glimmer of hope but now he's been lost for the season too.
I just want to see Fales play some in preseason. If you really only want someone that can win "a few games" in a backup, why not draft one instead of shelling out for cast offs? A starter recovering from injury is one thing, but Hoyer did not look good as a Texan either.
He is a backup caliber QB that should not be starting except in case of emergencies. The Bears do not have the luxury of developing thier own backup QB right now. New OC (again) means Cutler gets the majority of the snaps, and Hoyer gets to rely on his past starting experience to get him by if his number gets called.
If a team has a weak defense and he has some offensive weapons, he can beat them. He is certainly not good enough to beat a bad team with no talent behind him. When he comes across a playoff caliber D, he gets clobbered no matter who he has on O. It is the Josh McCown Equation all over again.
I disagree that the Bears, or any team for that matter, don't have the luxury to develop their own talent at QB. If you need a guy to come in and win a game or two, any QB that can throw a 15 yard out fits the bill. In fact, plenty of guys get wins in their first 3 starts because there is no tape on them.
The reason the bears have failed to groom even quality back ups at the position is due in large part to completely changing offensive philosophies every year or two. Matt Cassel looked like a god in NE. He was just a guy with plenty of time in the same system.
I disagree that the Bears, or any team for that matter, don't have the luxury to develop their own talent at QB. If you need a guy to come in and win a game or two, any QB that can throw a 15 yard out fits the bill. In fact, plenty of guys get wins in their first 3 starts because there is no tape on them.
The reason the bears have failed to groom even quality back ups at the position is due in large part to completely changing offensive philosophies every year or two. Matt Cassel looked like a god in NE. He was just a guy with plenty of time in the same system.
Plenty of guys win their first three starts? Not Caleb Hanie. He lost every regular game he touched the football. But he had his moments where he looked good in preseason.
There are teams that have the luxury and ability to develop backup quarterbacks, but there is a time and place for it.
First, you need to have quality coaching. Do you think Mike Tice could have developed someone as a backup QB? You need time to give that player. If the offense is established, then yes, that team can sacrifice starting quarterback snaps to let the backup figure things out.
Bears have a new OC. Again. Cutler needs to learn the offense. Again. If Gase had stuck around, I'd be more for it. Right now, the O looks awful enough as it is. Why add more problems to it with inexperience?
I disagree that the Bears, or any team for that matter, don't have the luxury to develop their own talent at QB. If you need a guy to come in and win a game or two, any QB that can throw a 15 yard out fits the bill. In fact, plenty of guys get wins in their first 3 starts because there is no tape on them.
The reason the bears have failed to groom even quality back ups at the position is due in large part to completely changing offensive philosophies every year or two. Matt Cassel looked like a god in NE. He was just a guy with plenty of time in the same system.
Developing yes but expecting a rookie to be your primary backup is pretty bold and risky unless you just drafted Andrew Luck or his equivalent. And yeah, all the changeover in OCs hasn't helped either. Look at that big tall doofus out of Idaho Martz insisted JA draft because Martz didn't like Hanie. Where's he at or a half dozen others like him we've drafted in the last decade?
And every QB can't throw a 15 yard/out dart either because sometimes he has to throw that one 25-30 yards or more to complete a 15 yard out and put it where the only guy who can get it is his WR. That's one of the toughest throws to make consistently and even that won't guarantee you wins.
It's all a matter of the odds tragic. NFL coaches play the odds just like MLB manager who brings in a lefty from the bull pen to face a left handed batter. You may be right but they're slaves to the stats and the odds they feel will improve their chances and most vets are better backups than a rookie even when the vet is mediocre and the rookie has talent.
I disagree that the Bears, or any team for that matter, don't have the luxury to develop their own talent at QB. If you need a guy to come in and win a game or two, any QB that can throw a 15 yard out fits the bill. In fact, plenty of guys get wins in their first 3 starts because there is no tape on them.
The reason the bears have failed to groom even quality back ups at the position is due in large part to completely changing offensive philosophies every year or two. Matt Cassel looked like a god in NE. He was just a guy with plenty of time in the same system.
Developing yes but expecting a rookie to be your primary backup is pretty bold and risky unless you just drafted Andrew Luck or his equivalent. And yeah, all the changeover in OCs hasn't helped either. Look at that big tall doofus out of Idaho Martz insisted JA draft because Martz didn't like Hanie. Where's he at or a half dozen others like him we've drafted in the last decade?
And every QB can't throw a 15 yard/out dart either because sometimes he has to throw that one 25-30 yards or more to complete a 15 yard out and put it where the only guy who can get it is his WR. That's one of the toughest throws to make consistently and even that won't guarantee you wins.
It's all a matter of the odds tragic. NFL coaches play the odds just like MLB manager who brings in a lefty from the bull pen to face a left handed batter. You may be right but they're slaves to the stats and the odds they feel will improve their chances and most vets are better backups than a rookie even when the vet is mediocre and the rookie has talent.
It's all percentages. The chances that an inexperienced QB will be awful in the regular season are higher than an experienced QB will do mediocre are higher. If that was not the case, you'd never see guys like Grossman float around the league for 13 seasons.
Developing yes but expecting a rookie to be your primary backup is pretty bold and risky unless you just drafted Andrew Luck or his equivalent. And yeah, all the changeover in OCs hasn't helped either. Look at that big tall doofus out of Idaho Martz insisted JA draft because Martz didn't like Hanie. Where's he at or a half dozen others like him we've drafted in the last decade?
And every QB can't throw a 15 yard/out dart either because sometimes he has to throw that one 25-30 yards or more to complete a 15 yard out and put it where the only guy who can get it is his WR. That's one of the toughest throws to make consistently and even that won't guarantee you wins.
It's all a matter of the odds tragic. NFL coaches play the odds just like MLB manager who brings in a lefty from the bull pen to face a left handed batter. You may be right but they're slaves to the stats and the odds they feel will improve their chances and most vets are better backups than a rookie even when the vet is mediocre and the rookie has talent.
It's all percentages. The chances that an inexperienced QB will be awful in the regular season are higher than an experienced QB will do mediocre are higher. If that was not the case, you'd never see guys like Grossman float around the league for 13 seasons.
Post by tragicslip on Sept 1, 2016 20:08:23 GMT -6
Yeah, I get it is a numbers game. My problem with the Fales situation is playing the PS 52 man roster game with him for two years straight. Of course, one of those years was a Trestman year.
My thinking is mostly Fox and Pace should have four years before their jobs are in jeopardy. If Fales gets cut/ picked up by another team you have two years left to find Cutler's replacement and your backup.
Yeah, I get it is a numbers game. My problem with the Fales situation is playing the PS 52 man roster game with him for two years straight. Of course, one of those years was a Trestman year.
My thinking is mostly Fox and Pace should have four years before their jobs are in jeopardy. If Fales gets cut/ picked up by another team you have two years left to find Cutler's replacement and your backup.
Hoyer played well tonight, so did White.
Fox's contract is for four years but Pace's I'm not certain. Could be the same.
I think Fales is toast. In three years he's yet to show he's even a capable #2. If they can find better they will. Assuming Shaw fully recovers look for him to compete for the #2 job next year and maybe eventually as a replacement for Cutler. Arm strength might limit him though.
Post by tragicslip on Sept 1, 2016 21:29:45 GMT -6
Yeah, Fales can't get the ball to his targets fast enough. Shaw's arm was but he can make enough throws to backup. He was fun to watch in college. He wasn't too comfortable with pro speed and that's why he took off early imo. That's better then holding on to the ball in the pocket watching the rush though.