Injury rant reply turned into a post...

brasilbear
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Injury rant reply turned into a post... Oct 19, 2016 7:59:12 GMT -6 blueshoes likes this

Post by brasilbear on Oct 19, 2016 7:59:12 GMT -6

Oct 19, 2016 7:33:46 GMT -6 JABF said:

Oct 19, 2016 7:16:41 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

So I guess you don't ever fire anyone if that is the criteria. I don't even know why teams conduct interview then. All these teams firing their coaches without knowing who they are going to replace them with. We should still have Jureon then. Because by now it would be like his 15th year with the team and surely the rebuild would be complete. I mean what could possibly go wrong with holding on to a mediocre coach for years and years (cough-cough-Jeff Fisher-cough-cough). Guess the Cubs made a huge mistake in firing Renteria. They should have stuck with him. By all means if something isn't working, hang on to it forever because the law of averages would mean that at some point it will work right?

If we want to go there, why let Cutler do because who are you going to replace him with? Can you name a name? Are you sure he's going to be better? If you don't have someone in mind apparently you can't replace him.

I'm not saying we shouldn't fire Fox at some point. And of course teams fire coaches and GM's in order to get better. We've had 6 GM's and HC's in the past 5 years (3 of each). If Pace and Fox get replaced then it will be 8. You can fire your GM's and HC's every year if you want to. Change them like you change your underwear if you want to.

But can you win that way?

History says no.

That doesn't mean you don't fire Fox. It's just a bad situation we're in right now as a franchise. Real bad.

And that is 100% true. But doing nothing is also not the way to win, history shows that as well. I'm not arguing for a mid-season firing. I don't believe those work. But as the season winds down you have to start looking around at who is going to be available in the NFL and NCAA. If you think you can do better than Fox you let him go. IMO making the change is more important that sitting pat on sub-par results.

I've said it before. The Browns aren't changing coaches to screw things up, they are changing coaches and drafting QBs in order to find a combo that works.

Since their SB loss the Raiders have had 9 HCs and 9 different QBs but they kept changing and things are looking up.
Vikings ran through Tice-Childress-Fraizer and now Zimmer in 10 years. Bridgewater is their 7th QB.
Broncos ran through 4 HCs including one who was in a SB with them before settling on Kubiak who actually won them the SB.

I'm a firm believer in making change (resonable change-not midseason firings) until you get what works.

If we aren't going to be allowed to use NE as an example of what works, I's say that bringing up the Browns should be out of bounds as well. They represent extremes not the norm.

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Last Edit: Oct 19, 2016 8:00:05 GMT -6 by brasilbear

seqq34
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Injury rant reply turned into a post... Oct 19, 2016 8:53:41 GMT -6 billymurray likes this

Post by seqq34 on Oct 19, 2016 8:53:41 GMT -6

Oct 18, 2016 21:57:34 GMT -6 billymurray said:

Oct 18, 2016 6:53:03 GMT -6 seqq34 said:

So now we are breaking it down to who is definitely gone for the year vs who is only going to miss a significant part of the season lol ok my bad!

Yes, your bad indeed for there is no 'now' as if something has changed.

It was always just as you had quoted me 'no team has had season ending injuries like the Chargers'.

season ending injury -> definitely gone for the year

You are completely right Bill...i apologize and will edit my original post to reflect that...once again, my apologizes.

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butkus3595
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Injury rant reply turned into a post... Oct 19, 2016 9:29:54 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Oct 19, 2016 9:29:54 GMT -6

Oct 18, 2016 19:24:24 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Oct 18, 2016 16:16:15 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I'm of the mind you can't keep changing coaches every two years. To me it doesn't help the team whatsoever unless the guy being hired is a freakin rock star. Fox is going to get a third year, and in my opinion he should. This team still needs talent, we talked about the deficiencies still in place all off season, and now some of you act like those conversations never took place...like we were locked and loaded and ready to go for the playoffs. Some people around here didn't think we'd have a winning season...it is what it is. Did I think we'd be better this year? Yep, and that still may occur...there's still 10 games left. I'm not gonna get over excited about anything.

I don't disagree, but when the team doesn't seem to be heading in the right direction and the talent is better then I have to start questioning the coaches. Here is what I believe:
This team is vastly more talented then 2 years ago(at least on def)
The injuries are a problem, but they have been an ongoing problem for about 4 years now. I don't know if it's a league wide issue now but it always seems the Bears have multiple key people missing vast amounts of time.
The problem is a general lack of discipline there are WAY to many flags.
This is also heavily slanted b/c I had no want for Fox to be the HC of this team, while I didn't think it would look like this, I never thought Fox could do much more then get a base to build upon. Since he cannot seem to even get that going I'm not sure why you keep him around.

Who did you want instead of Fox? Injuries are a real thing...and when your talent is increased but the depth of that talent still isn't there you're going to see what you're seeing. Fox can coach, Fangio can coach, Donatell can coach...these are proven entities. If they weren't proven entities I might be more apt to toss em to the curb...but thats not the case here. We're about middle of the pack when it comes to penalties...which isn't good...but it's not like we're the Oakland Raiders.

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riczaj01
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Injury rant reply turned into a post... Oct 19, 2016 9:55:21 GMT -6 AlexM, shark86, and 1 more like this

Post by riczaj01 on Oct 19, 2016 9:55:21 GMT -6

That's the thing, I don't think Fox is that good of a coach. He's a career .500 coach, if you delve into it further, you see(regardless of talent) that he is almost always gone from a good year to bad year, it's 8 or less wins, 10-11 wins, fall back to 8 or less, jump back up to 10+ etc etc etc.

Look deeper into it, he's never had back to back winning seasons(until he had Manning). 1 back to back winning season in 14 years as HC and all it took was walking into a team already on the verge of being built, and a HoF qb dropping into his lap. So no I don't know that he can coach. I think he's a product of the schedule the team faces every year, and the GM's ability to draft and find FA's.

Remember this is a guy that wanted Claussen over Newton so I'm not even 100% sure on his ability to talent evaluate; that plus what he's done in Chicago.

He thought so far here:
Langford could take over for Forte(you can see this b/c there has been no RBbC approach)
Miller could take over for Bennett
Whitehair/Grassu could take the place of Slausson as starters(lucked out w/Sitton) and that there were better backups(there aren't)
Shea's best spot was ILB(wow)
Jones was a ILB(double wow)
I could probably go on, but I'm not sure I really have to.

This guy is just another Lovie Smith, when all the pieces are basically in place he's fine, but limited. When the team isn't in place he's a hot mess and incapable of doing his job.

Again I cannot answer who should replace him until we know who is available. I'm not even sure he should be replaced b/c as JABF points out you cannot continually move on from coaches every 2 years; but if the team isn't heading in the right direction I don't know that you keep him for the sake of continuity.

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blueshoes Starter I hate Cher Posts: 809 Likes: 775	Injury rant reply turned into a post... Oct 20, 2016 0:09:14 GMT -6 Post by blueshoes on Oct 20, 2016 0:09:14 GMT -6 I see valid points here ( both ways ) - but the bottom line is a lack of talent . Besides Long , name me 1 guy on this team who would be a definite starter no matter what team he's on ........ Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
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brasilbear
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Injury rant reply turned into a post... Oct 20, 2016 6:35:33 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by brasilbear on Oct 20, 2016 6:35:33 GMT -6

Not many. Jeffery, Sutton, Goldman, Trevathan, Freeman, Young.

Depending on situation--Whitechair, Miller, Amos.

So 6 for-sures and 3 maybes. And I wouldn't argue with anyone over any of these. That's how sad it is.

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Last Edit: Oct 20, 2016 11:19:17 GMT -6 by brasilbear

blueshoes
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Injury rant reply turned into a post... Oct 20, 2016 16:37:45 GMT -6

Post by blueshoes on Oct 20, 2016 16:37:45 GMT -6

Oct 20, 2016 6:35:33 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Not many. Jeffery, Sutton, Goldman, Trevathan, Freeman, Young.

Depending on situation--Whitechair, Miller, Amos.

So 6 for-sures and 3 maybes. And I wouldn't argue with anyone over any of these. That's how sad it is.

I'll give you Jeffery + Sitton - the rest aren't automatic starters on every team in the league ... a few for sure ... beyond that it's questionable .

So we can agree on 3 - on a 53 man squad . Lemme repeat that - 3 outta 53 .

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brasilbear
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Injury rant reply turned into a post... Oct 20, 2016 17:09:18 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Oct 20, 2016 17:09:18 GMT -6

Oct 20, 2016 16:37:45 GMT -6 blueshoes said:

Oct 20, 2016 6:35:33 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Not many. Jeffery, Sutton, Goldman, Trevathan, Freeman, Young.

Depending on situation--Whitechair, Miller, Amos.

So 6 for-sures and 3 maybes. And I wouldn't argue with anyone over any of these. That's how sad it is.

I'll give you Jeffery + Sitton - the rest aren't automatic starters on every team in the league ... a few for sure ... beyond that it's questionable .

So we can agree on 3 - on a 53 man squad . Lemme repeat that - 3 outta 53 .

And I can't argue with you on that. Its sad.

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seqq34
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Injury rant reply turned into a post... Oct 20, 2016 17:21:22 GMT -6

Post by seqq34 on Oct 20, 2016 17:21:22 GMT -6

Oct 19, 2016 9:55:21 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

That's the thing, I don't think Fox is that good of a coach. He's a career .500 coach, if you delve into it further, you see(regardless of talent) that he is almost always gone from a good year to bad year, it's 8 or less wins, 10-11 wins, fall back to 8 or less, jump back up to 10+ etc etc etc.

Look deeper into it, he's never had back to back winning seasons(until he had Manning). 1 back to back winning season in 14 years as HC and all it took was walking into a team already on the verge of being built, and a HoF qb dropping into his lap. So no I don't know that he can coach. I think he's a product of the schedule the team faces every year, and the GM's ability to draft and find FA's.

Remember this is a guy that wanted Claussen over Newton so I'm not even 100% sure on his ability to talent evaluate; that plus what he's done in Chicago.

He thought so far here:
Langford could take over for Forte(you can see this b/c there has been no RBbC approach)
Miller could take over for Bennett
Whitehair/Grassu could take the place of Slausson as starters(lucked out w/Sitton) and that there were better backups(there aren't)
Shea's best spot was ILB(wow)
Jones was a ILB(double wow)
I could probably go on, but I'm not sure I really have to.

This guy is just another Lovie Smith, when all the pieces are basically in place he's fine, but limited. When the team isn't in place he's a hot mess and incapable of doing his job.

Again I cannot answer who should replace him until we know who is available. I'm not even sure he should be replaced b/c as JABF points out you cannot continually move on from coaches every 2 years; but if the team isn't heading in the right direction I don't know that you keep him for the sake of continuity.

Just out of curiosity...what is the story behind him not wanting Cam?
I'm just going off the surface...but he wasn't even the coach, and he just used a 2nd rounder on Clausen the year before Cam was drafted.

Did he say he would take Clausen over Cam if they were on the same team?
or
Was he saying he was content with developing his very young 2nd round draft pick instead of drafting a Qb in the first if he was still the coach?

or neither lol i really don't know the story behind it.

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Injury rant reply turned into a post... Oct 21, 2016 20:24:37 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 20:24:37 GMT -6

Oct 20, 2016 16:37:45 GMT -6 blueshoes said:

Oct 20, 2016 6:35:33 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Not many. Jeffery, Sutton, Goldman, Trevathan, Freeman, Young.

Depending on situation--Whitechair, Miller, Amos.

So 6 for-sures and 3 maybes. And I wouldn't argue with anyone over any of these. That's how sad it is.

I'll give you Jeffery + Sitton - the rest aren't automatic starters on every team in the league ... a few for sure ... beyond that it's questionable .

So we can agree on 3 - on a 53 man squad . Lemme repeat that - 3 outta 53 .

I don't see how you could drop Freeman from that list, but that's just me.

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Injury rant reply turned into a post...

Post by brasilbear on Oct 19, 2016 7:59:12 GMT -6

Post by seqq34 on Oct 19, 2016 8:53:41 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Oct 19, 2016 9:29:54 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Oct 19, 2016 9:55:21 GMT -6

Post by blueshoes on Oct 20, 2016 0:09:14 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Oct 20, 2016 6:35:33 GMT -6

Post by blueshoes on Oct 20, 2016 16:37:45 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Oct 20, 2016 17:09:18 GMT -6

Post by seqq34 on Oct 20, 2016 17:21:22 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 20:24:37 GMT -6