Bears should give Jay Cutler an opportunity with improved ru

germansbombedph
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Bears should give Jay Cutler an opportunity with improved ru Oct 11, 2016 3:02:17 GMT -6 riczaj01 likes this

Post by germansbombedph on Oct 11, 2016 3:02:17 GMT -6

Oct 10, 2016 20:38:44 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Last season playing his first year in yet another offense with a little more restraint AND with an OC who for the first time designed an offense around Cutler's strong points and put him in positions where he didn't have to take as many chances we saw a completely different QB. He was far more efficient and his turnovers plummeted. So will some of you please stop acting as if that never happened only to twist facts to suit your viewpoint.

Going into the final game he had 8 picks. Of his three in the last game two came while he was hit in the act of throwing and another was picked off a deflection when the receiver failed to secure the ball. So although none of those constituted a throw into triple coverage I'll split them with you and we'll give him 9 1/2 for the year vs 21 TD passes. For his entire career his interception percentage is 3.3% vs a 4.7% TD percentage. Hoyer's is 2.3% and 3.9% so Hoyer has played as you'd expect. Less risk but less scoring. Even Jimmy Mac at Int-3.5% and TD-3.9% falls far short and for those of you more recent fans we never screamed to trade him. Ditka was the only one who screamed but that was at him. LOL

Let's look at two HOF QBs Cutler has been compared with as a gunslinger and their stats.

Elway; TD-4.1% Int-3.1%
Favre; TD-5.0% Int-3.3%

So he's right in there with them but has won less games. Might that have something to do with the caliber of teams they've all played for. Cutler won 67% of his starts and came within 1/2 of one game from a SB before our defense fell apart and this spiral began. Cutler is also in the top 25% of all NFL QBs for 4th Q comeback wins ranked 20th out of 80 all time. Hoyer? Not even in the top 80 period which means less than 10. So if we don't jump out to a lead and hold it or we're behind in the 4th Q whose more likely to win the game? Pretty much like what happened Sunday huh?

So for those who prefer Hoyer great. Now you got him and he's 1-2 as a starter. No better than expected and maybe a bit worse because we should have won on Sunday. If his conservative style is more to your liking and you feel better about stacking up yardage and a few FG than TDs he's your man.

But please don't tell me he's a better QB than Cutler or that he gives us a better chance to win. It makes you sound foolish and brain damaged.

Why do you defend Cutler that much?

Alex said it well. We won't win with one and will lose with the other

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riczaj01
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Bears should give Jay Cutler an opportunity with improved ru Oct 11, 2016 5:14:56 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Oct 11, 2016 5:14:56 GMT -6

Soul,

Why do you have to go back 20 years to look at stats and make a comparison knowing full well it was a different league. Gunslingers are dead, it's a dead qb play style b/c you cannot turn the ball over like that IN TODAY'S NFL

Lets look at Cutty's peers that are elite(ei this era), boarderline HoF qb's
Manning, 5.7 and 2.7
Brady, 5.5 1.9
Roth, 5.1, 2.7
Brees 5.3, 2.5
Rogers 6.4, 1.9
Tony Romo 5.7 2.7(might i add how many people say he turns the ball over to much and like to compare HIM to Cutler?)
Eli 4.7, 3.2

That is how the current NFL rules have allowed the new generation of elite QB's to play.

New era franchise qbs *ie who the teams feel are their franchise*:

Russell Wilson 5.9 1.9
Marcus Mariota 4.9 2.8
Jameis Winston 4.2 3.1
Derek Carr 4.7, 2.0
Stafford, 4.5, 2.6
Cam Newton 4.8 2.7

All but 2 of these qb's, 13 total have under a 3.0 int ratio, and only 1 has a ratio worse then Cutlers, but he's a 2nd year qb on a shitty team TB is historically bad(and btw not a qb I felt should have been drafted #1 overall or even in the top 10). Only 1 has been to a SB(2), and he's an anomoly, you don't build around the exception to the rules, and imo even though the stats don't reflect it, Eli has shown an ability to be a Far better QB then Cutler has ever shown. Those are the qb's you should be comparing the Bears qb(cutler or anyone else of this generation to). Not having to go back to bygone era's when the rules were different and FAR more difficult on a QB.

Notice something else, not ONE of those players is a gunslinger. Why? B/c gunslinging in the NFL is dead, you CANNOT have a QB that gunslings b/c it hurts your team more then helps it. It is FAR to easy to score in today's NFL to allow the other team extra shots at points while also forfeiting chances to score yourself. It has been my SOLE reason for not wanting Cutler as the Bears QB. I don't hate him, it's not his face or attitude or lack of leadership(if any of that is even an issue). It's he turns the ball over to damn much and your stats prove it when compared to his peers.

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Last Edit: Oct 11, 2016 8:54:40 GMT -6 by riczaj01

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Bears should give Jay Cutler an opportunity with improved ru Oct 11, 2016 9:12:01 GMT -6 riczaj01 likes this

Post by JABF on Oct 11, 2016 9:12:01 GMT -6

Oct 11, 2016 5:14:56 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Soul,

Why do you have to go back 20 years to look at stats and make a comparison knowing full well it was a different league. Gunslingers are dead, it's a dead qb play style b/c you cannot turn the ball over like that IN TODAY'S NFL

Lets look at Cutty's peers that are elite(ei this era), boarderline HoF qb's
Manning, 5.7 and 2.7
Brady, 5.5 1.9
Roth, 5.1, 2.7
Brees 5.3, 2.5
Rogers 6.4, 1.9
Tony Romo 5.7 2.7(might i add how many people say he turns the ball over to much and like to compare HIM to Cutler?)
Eli 4.7, 3.2

That is how the current NFL rules have allowed the new generation of elite QB's to play.

New era franchise qbs *ie who the teams feel are their franchise*:

Russell Wilson 5.9 1.9
Marcus Mariota 4.9 2.8
Jameis Winston 4.2 3.1
Derek Carr 4.7, 2.0
Stafford, 4.5, 2.6
Cam Newton 4.8 2.7

All but 2 of these qb's, 13 total have under a 3.0 int ratio, and only 1 has a ratio worse then Cutlers, but he's a 2nd year qb on a shitty team TB is historically bad(and btw not a qb I felt should have been drafted #1 overall or even in the top 10). Only 1 has been to a SB(2), and he's an anomoly, you don't build around the exception to the rules, and imo even though the stats don't reflect it, Eli has shown an ability to be a Far better QB then Cutler has ever shown. Those are the qb's you should be comparing the Bears qb(cutler or anyone else of this generation to). Not having to go back to bygone era's when the rules were different and FAR more difficult on a QB.

Notice something else, not ONE of those players is a gunslinger. Why? B/c gunslinging in the NFL is dead, you CANNOT have a QB that gunslings b/c it hurts your team more then helps it. It is FAR to easy to score in today's NFL to allow the other team extra shots at points while also forfeiting chances to score yourself. It has been my SOLE reason for not wanting Cutler as the Bears QB. I don't hate him, it's not his face or attitude or lack of leadership(if any of that is even an issue). It's he turns the ball over to damn much and your stats prove it when compared to his peers.

And it seems like the ultimate goal here is to establish a ball-control offense. Whether we agree or disagree on that being a good thing, it just seems like Jay Cutler is not a great fit for that kind of offense. He's had 175 turnovers (ints and fumbles) and that's obviously hurt us over the years. Hoyer isn't the answer either. My hope is that we can get a better option at QB, and sooner rather than later.

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riczaj01
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Bears should give Jay Cutler an opportunity with improved ru Oct 11, 2016 9:53:15 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Oct 11, 2016 9:53:15 GMT -6

Oct 11, 2016 9:12:01 GMT -6 JABF said:

Oct 11, 2016 5:14:56 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Soul,

Why do you have to go back 20 years to look at stats and make a comparison knowing full well it was a different league. Gunslingers are dead, it's a dead qb play style b/c you cannot turn the ball over like that IN TODAY'S NFL

Lets look at Cutty's peers that are elite(ei this era), boarderline HoF qb's
Manning, 5.7 and 2.7
Brady, 5.5 1.9
Roth, 5.1, 2.7
Brees 5.3, 2.5
Rogers 6.4, 1.9
Tony Romo 5.7 2.7(might i add how many people say he turns the ball over to much and like to compare HIM to Cutler?)
Eli 4.7, 3.2

That is how the current NFL rules have allowed the new generation of elite QB's to play.

New era franchise qbs *ie who the teams feel are their franchise*:

Russell Wilson 5.9 1.9
Marcus Mariota 4.9 2.8
Jameis Winston 4.2 3.1
Derek Carr 4.7, 2.0
Stafford, 4.5, 2.6
Cam Newton 4.8 2.7

All but 2 of these qb's, 13 total have under a 3.0 int ratio, and only 1 has a ratio worse then Cutlers, but he's a 2nd year qb on a shitty team TB is historically bad(and btw not a qb I felt should have been drafted #1 overall or even in the top 10). Only 1 has been to a SB(2), and he's an anomoly, you don't build around the exception to the rules, and imo even though the stats don't reflect it, Eli has shown an ability to be a Far better QB then Cutler has ever shown. Those are the qb's you should be comparing the Bears qb(cutler or anyone else of this generation to). Not having to go back to bygone era's when the rules were different and FAR more difficult on a QB.

Notice something else, not ONE of those players is a gunslinger. Why? B/c gunslinging in the NFL is dead, you CANNOT have a QB that gunslings b/c it hurts your team more then helps it. It is FAR to easy to score in today's NFL to allow the other team extra shots at points while also forfeiting chances to score yourself. It has been my SOLE reason for not wanting Cutler as the Bears QB. I don't hate him, it's not his face or attitude or lack of leadership(if any of that is even an issue). It's he turns the ball over to damn much and your stats prove it when compared to his peers.

And it seems like the ultimate goal here is to establish a ball-control offense. Whether we agree or disagree on that being a good thing, it just seems like Jay Cutler is not a great fit for that kind of offense. He's had 175 turnovers (ints and fumbles) and that's obviously hurt us over the years. Hoyer isn't the answer either. My hope is that we can get a better option at QB, and sooner rather than later.

Ya the td to int ratio doesn't even factor in rush td's and fumbles. I'm guessing that the #'s go even more skewed against Cutler when you take that into account.

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Bears should give Jay Cutler an opportunity with improved ru

Post by germansbombedph on Oct 11, 2016 3:02:17 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Oct 11, 2016 5:14:56 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Oct 11, 2016 9:12:01 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Oct 11, 2016 9:53:15 GMT -6