He shouldn't survive this week. He's a bum, and the Bills OC was waxed for no reason they should be on the phone w/him right now.
Is our goal as a franchise to become a crap team like the Buffalo Bills? I hope not. My hope is that we climb out of this hole and become more like the better NFL teams. I don't think Belichick fires OC's after 2 games. Maybe he's on to something.
I bet he would if the guy was clueless enough. But he probably wouldn't hire a bad one in the first place...
He shouldn't survive this week. He's a bum, and the Bills OC was waxed for no reason they should be on the phone w/him right now.
Is our goal as a franchise to become a crap team like the Buffalo Bills? I hope not. My hope is that we climb out of this hole and become more like the better NFL teams. I don't think Belichick fires OC's after 2 games. Maybe he's on to something.
Bellechick also doesn't hire crap OC's to begin with.
Is our goal as a franchise to become a crap team like the Buffalo Bills? I hope not. My hope is that we climb out of this hole and become more like the better NFL teams. I don't think Belichick fires OC's after 2 games. Maybe he's on to something.
I bet he would if the guy was clueless enough. But he probably wouldn't hire a bad one in the first place...
That's a good point. For what it's worth, I'm trying to get beyond the knee-jerk reaction of just firing a guy. That makes us feel better initially, and may be the best thing to do. But the other (to me, more important) part, is getting the best OC you can possibly get - to replace the guy. If that is the guy fired after 2 games this season in Buffalo, then I'm fine with that. But if we would be better off long-term, if we rode this season out with Loggains before we do a search for the best guy - then let's do that.
Replacing a coordinator (any coordinator) is fairly major. Obviously you want to get it right. Ultimately it affects schemes and rosters (who fits the new guy's scheme). And it's not like John Fox is an offensive-minded head coach who is running the O show, so the actual OC is less important. John Fox, in particular, needs the OC to be a solid guy. If Loggains needs to go, then fine, but make sure the next guy isn't Loggains-II or we're screwed.
I'm not trying to be an arrogant butt hole here, but replacing an OC is more complex than just "fire the guy" after two games and hope somethin' good happens.
I bet he would if the guy was clueless enough. But he probably wouldn't hire a bad one in the first place...
That's a good point. For what it's worth, I'm trying to get beyond the knee-jerk reaction of just firing a guy. That makes us feel better initially, and may be the best thing to do. But the other (to me, more important) part, is getting the best OC you can possibly get - to replace the guy. If that is the guy fired after 2 games this season in Buffalo, then I'm fine with that. But if we would be better off long-term, if we rode this season out with Loggains before we do a search for the best guy - then let's do that.
Replacing a coordinator (any coordinator) is fairly major. Obviously you want to get it right. Ultimately it affects schemes and rosters (who fits the new guy's scheme). And it's not like John Fox is an offensive-minded head coach who is running the O show, so the actual OC is less important. John Fox, in particular, needs the OC to be a solid guy. If Loggains needs to go, then fine, but make sure the next guy isn't Loggains-II or we're screwed.
I'm not trying to be an arrogant butt hole here, but replacing an OC is more complex than just "fire the guy" after two games and hope somethin' good happens.
I completely agree with everything you've said. It worries me that Fox is Lovie2 and is clueless on the O side. I thought he would be able to bring in good OCs. But instead it looks like he was lucky with Gase, and we might be heading back to the Bad OC Carousel. I really do not want that again. Stability is important. But it has to be good stability.
Unfortunately, to me, it looks like No-gains has to go. So far he's just running a different version of the old "3 and Pout" offense from a few years ago. I really hope he can figure it out though.
Let me paraphrase your last statement, just to play Devil's Advocate...
I'm not trying to be an arrogant butt hole here, but replacing an OC is more complex than just "NOT FIRING the guy" after two games and hope somethin' good happens.
That's a good point. For what it's worth, I'm trying to get beyond the knee-jerk reaction of just firing a guy. That makes us feel better initially, and may be the best thing to do. But the other (to me, more important) part, is getting the best OC you can possibly get - to replace the guy. If that is the guy fired after 2 games this season in Buffalo, then I'm fine with that. But if we would be better off long-term, if we rode this season out with Loggains before we do a search for the best guy - then let's do that.
Replacing a coordinator (any coordinator) is fairly major. Obviously you want to get it right. Ultimately it affects schemes and rosters (who fits the new guy's scheme). And it's not like John Fox is an offensive-minded head coach who is running the O show, so the actual OC is less important. John Fox, in particular, needs the OC to be a solid guy. If Loggains needs to go, then fine, but make sure the next guy isn't Loggains-II or we're screwed.
I'm not trying to be an arrogant butt hole here, but replacing an OC is more complex than just "fire the guy" after two games and hope somethin' good happens.
I completely agree with everything you've said. It worries me that Fox is Lovie2 and is clueless on the O side. I thought he would be able to bring in good OCs. But instead it looks like he was lucky with Gase, and we might be heading back to the Bad OC Carousel. I really do not want that again. Stability is important. But it has to be good stability.
Unfortunately, to me, it looks like No-gains has to go. So far he's just running a different version of the old "3 and Pout" offense from a few years ago. I really hope he can figure it out though.
Let me paraphrase your last statement, just to play Devil's Advocate...
I'm not trying to be an arrogant butt hole here, but replacing an OC is more complex than just "NOT FIRING the guy" after two games and hope somethin' good happens.
+1 Who knows. Maybe they will fire him mid-year.
But, I think we can bring in a better OC for next year if we wait. I think the major reason they went with Loggains this year was because they wanted the same (at least similar) scheme for a second consecutive year with a guy who did have a bit of OC experience. I think they thought that would work. Well it didn't. But I understand the thinking.
Hiring an OC in the middle of the season seems foolish to me if we can have a better replacement pool to choose from at the end of the season. It's not like the team is going anywhere this season anyway. We have our starting QB injured (and who probably won't be 100% the rest of the year even if he does come back) and an OL that looks pretty bad at both T positions - and a rook center too. If we just "jump" to get a quick hire now, and miss out on the better OC candidates at the end of the season - what will we gain with the new guy THIS year anyway? With Hoyer? With this OL? Man, I just don't see it.
Hopefully the Bears will get it right, rather than just getting a snap hire here.
Between Pace and Fox, I would hope they have a good list of quality OCs. Whether one is available now or not, I certainly don't know. I don't want to fire the guy until we have a better replacement lined up. I really hope he sees the light and comes around. But I have my doubts. I really think we're looking at a new OC next year. And if that's the case, maybe a new QB too. I really don't want to suffer another year of Cutler learning another new offense again.
I completely agree with everything you've said. It worries me that Fox is Lovie2 and is clueless on the O side. I thought he would be able to bring in good OCs. But instead it looks like he was lucky with Gase, and we might be heading back to the Bad OC Carousel. I really do not want that again. Stability is important. But it has to be good stability.
Unfortunately, to me, it looks like No-gains has to go. So far he's just running a different version of the old "3 and Pout" offense from a few years ago. I really hope he can figure it out though.
Let me paraphrase your last statement, just to play Devil's Advocate...
I'm not trying to be an arrogant butt hole here, but replacing an OC is more complex than just "NOT FIRING the guy" after two games and hope somethin' good happens.
+1 Who knows. Maybe they will fire him mid-year.
But, I think we can bring in a better OC for next year if we wait. I think the major reason they went with Loggains this year was because they wanted the same (at least similar) scheme for a second consecutive year with a guy who did have a bit of OC experience. I think they thought that would work. Well it didn't. But I understand the thinking.
Hiring an OC in the middle of the season seems foolish to me if we can have a better replacement pool to choose from at the end of the season. It's not like the team is going anywhere this season anyway. We have our starting QB injured (and who probably won't be 100% the rest of the year even if he does come back) and an OL that looks pretty bad at both T positions - and a rook center too. If we just "jump" to get a quick hire now, and miss out on the better OC candidates at the end of the season - what will we gain with the new guy THIS year anyway? With Hoyer? With this OL? Man, I just don't see it.
Hopefully the Bears will get it right, rather than just getting a snap hire here.
They got it right with Gase (I had my doubts about him, but he was pretty good) when they went out to hire an OC. They messed it up by doing what most of the HCs that have come through here have done. Bring in a guy that will keep things the same. The criteria should be how good and creative an OC you are rather than keeping things the same. They hired Tice for the same reasons. They supposedly hired Tucker for that reason. An inept coordinator will find a way to negate any positives of keeping things the same. And just for the record. The offense was not the envy of the league and making the primary concern keeping things the same seems stupid on many levels.
But, I think we can bring in a better OC for next year if we wait. I think the major reason they went with Loggains this year was because they wanted the same (at least similar) scheme for a second consecutive year with a guy who did have a bit of OC experience. I think they thought that would work. Well it didn't. But I understand the thinking.
Hiring an OC in the middle of the season seems foolish to me if we can have a better replacement pool to choose from at the end of the season. It's not like the team is going anywhere this season anyway. We have our starting QB injured (and who probably won't be 100% the rest of the year even if he does come back) and an OL that looks pretty bad at both T positions - and a rook center too. If we just "jump" to get a quick hire now, and miss out on the better OC candidates at the end of the season - what will we gain with the new guy THIS year anyway? With Hoyer? With this OL? Man, I just don't see it.
Hopefully the Bears will get it right, rather than just getting a snap hire here.
They got it right with Gase (I had my doubts about him, but he was pretty good) when they went out to hire an OC. They messed it up by doing what most of the HCs that have come through here have done. Bring in a guy that will keep things the same. The criteria should be how good and creative an OC you are rather than keeping things the same. They hired Tice for the same reasons. They supposedly hired Tucker for that reason. An inept coordinator will find a way to negate any positives of keeping things the same. And just for the record. The offense was not the envy of the league and making the primary concern keeping things the same seems stupid on many levels.
I totally agree. Hopefully they will find a really solid OC and Pace can draft him a solid QB too. The Bears nuked the team except for Cutler. It's probably time to move on from him too. New OC. New young QB, and hopefully a better OL too.
LOL, as I type this it seems like a fairy tail. Maybe it will all happen and we will all live happily ever after as Bears fans :-)
Firing an OC two weeks in is a sign of a worthless org. If you're firing The Log might as well shot can Fox and Fangio at the same time. That's what worthless orgs do: listen to a bipolar fan base and show no patience.
Firing an OC two weeks in is a sign of a worthless org. If you're firing The Log might as well shot can Fox and Fangio at the same time. That's what worthless orgs do: listen to a bipolar fan base and show no patience.
Actually, even two games is too long to give a new coach. If they lose their first game, don't even let 'em back into the locker room after the game. That's how you build a super bowl team. Hard core firing people.
