Regarding Shaheen, I think he is an example of how Pace values some draftees. He isn't as concerned about the floor for a young player, as their potential ceiling. I kind of like that approach. Shaheen seems like a player who could be very special, but not right out of a small school. Rookies sometimes are worth investing some time in. Trubisky is a great example here too.
Regarding Shaheen, I think he is an example of how Pace values some draftees. He isn't as concerned about the floor for a young player, as their potential ceiling. I kind of like that approach. Shaheen seems like a player who could be very special, but not right out of a small school. Rookies sometimes are worth investing some time in. Trubisky is a great example here too.
I really want my GM to be considering and thinking about BOTH the floor and the ceiling, so I’m not sure I’m as in love with Ryan Pace as you are.
Maybe there’s circumstances where one or the other takes precedence, sure. If a GM already has a very solid foundation on his roster I can see going for some higher risk/reward picks. If he’s trying rebuild a roster full of holes, I think he better damn well care more about not taking extra risk than shooting for the moon, at least until he gets some building blocks in place. (Ryan Pace should have cared a helluva lot more about Kevin White’s “floor” at the time than he apparently did, enamored as he was his “ceiling”. If he had then maybe we would have at least gotten some value out of a #7 pick).
Angelo also practically became infamous around here for blowing draft picks by falling in love with so-called high-ceiling athletes who were low-floor football prospects. I really don’t want the Bears GM blowing through picks like a drunk gambler trying to hit the slot machine jackpot.
Regarding Shaheen, I think he is an example of how Pace values some draftees. He isn't as concerned about the floor for a young player, as their potential ceiling. I kind of like that approach. Shaheen seems like a player who could be very special, but not right out of a small school. Rookies sometimes are worth investing some time in. Trubisky is a great example here too.
If we look at Shaheen the way Pace and his staff did we see the three things that can't be taught;
Size Speed Athleticism
Coaches should be able to help instill football IQ to a degree and coach responsibilities per play. Focks and his people did not accelerate that process with him so his growth lagged just as Trubisky's did. Now at least we won't have a HC who feel his job is threatened by playing rookies. His entire tenure with the Bears was all about his rep not developing a winning team from young talent and if effect it cost him his job and his rep anyway. The King is Dead, Long Live the New King.
Until Shaheen is ready? If he’s not ready then Pace should be fired. You don’t waste a 2nd round pick on a “project.” ESPECIALLY when you have limited picks like we did
Actually jusnixx he was a project. He came from a Div II school and had no blocking experince. He had limited targets so I think he won't develop fully until late next year.
IF Shaheen was drafted as a “project” because he couldn’t block then shame on Pace and shames on George for giving him an extension. Look at all the talent that was passed to draft him. You DON’T spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on projects. 1st and 2nd round guys are supposed to contribute right away. I don’t think Pace saw him as a project. I think he drafted him because of his size, athleticism, and hands. He saw Jimmy Graham (who also couldn’t block) when he drafted Shaheen. Was there any REAL reason he shouldn’t have had more snaps his year?? I’m guessing no, but because conservative Fox was HC he didn’t utilize him properly. My gut tells me Pace didn’t draft him thinking he was a project and instead drafted him because he saw him as a legit threat at TE, but Fox and the Log failed to use him properly
Actually jusnixx he was a project. He came from a Div II school and had no blocking experince. He had limited targets so I think he won't develop fully until late next year.
IF Shaheen was drafted as a “project” because he couldn’t block then shame on Pace and shames on George for giving him an extension. Look at all the talent that was passed to draft him. You DON’T spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on projects. 1st and 2nd round guys are supposed to contribute right away. I don’t think Pace saw him as a project. I think he drafted him because of his size, athleticism, and hands. He saw Jimmy Graham (who also couldn’t block) when he drafted Shaheen. Was there any REAL reason he shouldn’t have had more snaps his year?? I’m guessing no, but because conservative Fox was HC he didn’t utilize him properly. My gut tells me Pace didn’t draft him thinking he was a project and instead drafted him because he saw him as a legit threat at TE, but Fox and the Log failed to use him properly
I believe that's correct because those are the terms Pace spoke about him in and how TE could be the strength of our passing game. But while Pace may control personnel Focks controls who plays and there's no doubt in my mind a battle between what Pace saw and Focks did was going on all season long including the preseason.
When a HC tells the media the reason rookies aren't included in a 2 minute or goal line offense 12 weeks to a season it's because the HC has kept them out of being taught those plays or having developed plays for them. Intentional or habitual it make little difference. That's exactly what Focks did with Cohen and Shaheen giving himself even fewer tools.
GMcC and Phillips favored hiring a stubborn old coot with a decade or more old vision of how an offense should work because A) Focks is so much like them, B) Focks told them just what they wanted to hear, and C) They have decades old vision of how their team should be run and they care more about maintaining the status quo around that than they do about winning football games. Don't let GMcC bull shit you. He's just as big a liar as Focks.
Regarding Shaheen, I think he is an example of how Pace values some draftees. He isn't as concerned about the floor for a young player, as their potential ceiling. I kind of like that approach. Shaheen seems like a player who could be very special, but not right out of a small school. Rookies sometimes are worth investing some time in. Trubisky is a great example here too.
I really want my GM to be considering and thinking about BOTH the floor and the ceiling, so I’m not sure I’m as in love with Ryan Pace as you are.
Maybe there’s circumstances where one or the other takes precedence, sure. If a GM already has a very solid foundation on his roster I can see going for some higher risk/reward picks. If he’s trying rebuild a roster full of holes, I think he better damn well care more about not taking extra risk than shooting for the moon, at least until he gets some building blocks in place. (Ryan Pace should have cared a helluva lot more about Kevin White’s “floor” at the time than he apparently did, enamored as he was his “ceiling”. If he had then maybe we would have at least gotten some value out of a #7 pick).
Angelo also practically became infamous around here for blowing draft picks by falling in love with so-called high-ceiling athletes who were low-floor football prospects. I really don’t want the Bears GM blowing through picks like a drunk gambler trying to hit the slot machine jackpot.
JMO
I understand the benefits of both, and you are right that where a team is at, roster talent wise, has a bearing. But my thinking is that if the team is rebuilding with new young players, and the ultimate goal is to have sustained winning spanning a number of years, then I can see the benefit of building (when possible) a team with players who will ultimately be better than the "quick fix" guys. But. And here's the key. This all depends upon the players actually HAVING and ATTAINING the high ceiling. Just because a GM (Angelo) thinks a guy will ultimately reach a high level, doesn't mean anything. The GM has to get this right and the players turn out to be great players. Trubisky is the poster boy for this. He wasn't very good this year. He was a low-floor guy for sure. Even with better weapons, he would not have been great this year... better, but nothing to write home about. The hope is that he will ultimately be a guy who can lead this team to a ton of wins spanning many years. Hopefully championships. But. Let's see if Pace got it right with this guy and he does, in fact, reach a high ceiling. Accurate talent evaluation is the key here.
LOL, it reminds me of my retirement plan. I could be retired right now. But financially I will have a higher-ceiling retirement if I wait 2 more years. I'm going to go for the higher ceiling retirement and work longer. I'm just wired that way. Instant gratification vs delayed but better gratification is how I look at things. It doesn't mean I am right... I'm not sure there is one "right" way. Getting back to Pace and drafting, I'm okay with the delayed gratification IF THE PLAYERS ACTUALLY REACH those high ceilings. That is a big "if" to me.
How do we know that Graham won't turn into a James Harrison ie refuse to mentor anyone who took playing time away from him? I've read that most players don't care to mentor their replacement. Bring back Miller as TE coach if you want a tutor for Shaheen..either that or keep Sims away from him.
If we're going to sign a guy who's more receiver than blocker to add to the tight end group I'd rather go after a guy like Trey Burton, or Austin Sefarian Jenkins. Neither should break the bank and they're both young.
Some of you like yo point out every FA mistake or misfire like it is a unique situation. Then you advocate for a past his prime, often injured TE. I don't have a problem signing a old vet in the twilight of his career. The issue here is that we have had a huge health problem with players and older vets. We have to have these guys on the field. Sure we need pass catchers, but they have to be on the field.