All I know is that we have a lot of holes to fill on this roster already. Fuller is a solid CB. If we continually let our best players walk, we won't go anywhere - ever. Our team just doesn't have the number of top draft picks to upgrade a roster full of holes, and replace aging players or injured players who are nearing the end of their careers - AND on top of that let the top players at key positions (and CB is one critically important position) walk away.
We need to stop the bleeding. We've let far too many solid players leave the Bears. Losing top talent is just breaking our backs. We can't seem to attract top FA talent here now, and then we let our own top FAs walk. I hope we pay Fuller and keep him. The team has a boatload of cap money. Why not use it to keep our best players?
That should read “Pace” has let far too many solid players go”
If Trumaine Johnson is coming to the market I rather we overpay for him then Fuller seeing that Johnson is just a much more talented CB. 10 million a year for Fuller is his price but in the position we're in. I'd be ok with 12 million but no to 14 million. I rather not overpay for an inconsistent CB.
The big concern I have with Fuller is, will he play at this high level once Fangio is gone?
There in lies the problem. If the FT is 14 mil, it's one year no biggie, escpecially w/the cap # expected to go up, and them having nearly 40 mil(probably well over that after some cuts) it's a nice way of keeping a guy that might be on the verge of getting it. It might also be that the guy is a natural #2, and is 12-15 mil worth a #2 cb? Time to figure it out.
I agree w/ the idea of Johnson. Actually I'd take him and Fuller combined at a cheap ext for Fuller or a FT. At that point you have the makings of a really good set of DB's the like we haven't seen since Tillman and Vasher in 05/06
This is very likely to be the primary topic of debate this winter just as AJ was last winter.
Personally I'd be thinking an offer more in the $40 mil range with $20 mil guaranteed is where Fuller fits but prices for CBs are climbing fast and coming off a $16.7 mil one year deal Trumaine Johnson is likely to be far more expensive to sign than Fuller. Maybe $12 mil per isn't out of line in 2018.
If it can't be agreed upon should we tag him or use our top pick on a DB like Fitzpatrick who'll command around $18 mil over 4 years?
Sign or tag, no doubt about it.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush as they say. This franchise has blown 1st round picks with regularity going back to Chris Williams (a major reason why we’ve sucked for a long time). Now, they have a 1st round pick who looked like another fail but has rallied to become a late bloomer on the rise. Letting him walk now would be colossally stupid on multiple levels.
It would create another hole where there wasnt one originally. That hole would be shockingly expensive to fill. And what does it say to outside free agents when the team won’t even pony up money to retain its own 1st round pick?
Yes you have. 65 mil for was a YUGE overpay for NE. So would giving Fuller that same contract this year. We had the discussion on if the 1 year FT or a long term 10 year per year deal was better. As this Hoge/Jahns and Soul point out, 10 mil a year isn't really plausible; 12 mil a year really isn't either, Some team w/to much cap will pay to much for him(ie Byrd/Gilmore), and he's not even at their level, and only 1 of them has shown he was worth that cash; and he got less guaranteed.
I 100% agree w/Jahns start w/the FT and move on from there. If you can get him for a good long term deal you do it, if you don't, make him prove he's worth a Gilmore/Byrd like contract and go from there.
Throwing money around rarely works, see Orlando Pace, Peppers, Allen, Gilmore(for NE) and Glennon. Our best FA's haven't been the highest paid, see Hicks, Freeman, Prince A, Sitton, before that McCown and Hoyer, Bennett.
This is better. The don't overpay contingent has arrived.
Yep. Just when you thought the secondary was finally fixed (or nearly fixed) we are gonna tear it down so Ryan Pace can say he “didn’t overpay”.
Ric, I can tell you something else that doesn’t work—letting talent walk out the door without adequate replacements in place.
This is very likely to be the primary topic of debate this winter just as AJ was last winter.
Personally I'd be thinking an offer more in the $40 mil range with $20 mil guaranteed is where Fuller fits but prices for CBs are climbing fast and coming off a $16.7 mil one year deal Trumaine Johnson is likely to be far more expensive to sign than Fuller. Maybe $12 mil per isn't out of line in 2018.
If it can't be agreed upon should we tag him or use our top pick on a DB like Fitzpatrick who'll command around $18 mil over 4 years?
Sign or tag, no doubt about it.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush as they say. This franchise has blown 1st round picks with regularity going back to Chris Williams (a major reason why we’ve sucked for a long time). Now, they have a 1st round pick who looked like another fail but has rallied to become a late bloomer on the rise. Letting him walk now would be colossally stupid on multiple levels.
It would create another hole where there wasnt one originally. That hole would be shockingly expensive to fill. And what does it say to outside free agents when the team won’t even pony up money to retain its own 1st round pick?
Yep, within reason Pace has to make a solid attempt to keep him. Plus one problem with drafting Fitzpatrick is I don't think he'll be on the board at #9. Winning 5 games kinda closed the door on some possibilities because that "strength of schedule" deal screws us over just enough to take us from around #5 all the way to #9.
This is better. The don't overpay contingent has arrived.
Yep. Just when you thought the secondary was finally fixed (or nearly fixed) we are gonna tear it down so Ryan Pace can say he “didn’t overpay”.
Ric, I can tell you something else that doesn’t work—letting talent walk out the door without adequate replacements in place.
Did Ric say Peppers? He thinks Pep was a waste of money? Since we let him go he's had just as many sacks as he had while he was here. If there's one guy who was not a waste it was Pep. He's 37 and still going strong.
Wasted money is Glennon and all of the other mid tier UFAs who either got injured or never played up to their contracts. I'm not any less upset about wasting money on guys like Cooper and Wheaton than I would have been on Gilmore. Sucks still sucks no matter how much or how little we pay them.
And he's disputing paying to keep one of our own former 1st round picks because we shouldn't pay market value? Man, if we keep drafting poorly half the time and failing to keep high draft picks who have succeeded we'll still be rebuilding in 2035.
This is better. The don't overpay contingent has arrived.
Yep. Just when you thought the secondary was finally fixed (or nearly fixed) we are gonna tear it down so Ryan Pace can say he “didn’t overpay”.
Ric, I can tell you something else that doesn’t work—letting talent walk out the door without adequate replacements in place.
That is 100% true. Shouldn't have gotten rid of Forte/Marshal or Bennett. And we shouldn't be quick to get rid of Fuller. That's why I'm all for FT'ing him. Make sure this wasn't a fluke year make sure he works w/the next Def. I'd be all for Trumane Johnson and/or re signing Prince A also. I think Prince and Fuller make a hell of 1 2 combo.
but just to be sure, would you pay Fuller anything to keep him? Say 5yr 65 mil w/40 guaranteed? Would it be worth keeping him at that price; or would it be better off letting him go and trying to get another player, like Prince, T Johnson, or a high draft pick?
Yep. Just when you thought the secondary was finally fixed (or nearly fixed) we are gonna tear it down so Ryan Pace can say he “didn’t overpay”.
Ric, I can tell you something else that doesn’t work—letting talent walk out the door without adequate replacements in place.
That is 100% true. Shouldn't have gotten rid of Forte/Marshal or Bennett. And we shouldn't be quick to get rid of Fuller. That's why I'm all for FT'ing him. Make sure this wasn't a fluke year make sure he works w/the next Def. I'd be all for Trumane Johnson and/or re signing Prince A also. I think Prince and Fuller make a hell of 1 2 combo.
but just to be sure, would you pay Fuller anything to keep him? Say 5yr 65 mil w/40 guaranteed? Would it be worth keeping him at that price; or would it be better off letting him go and trying to get another player, like Prince, T Johnson, or a high draft pick?
Ric, the problem with "trying to get another player like... fill in the blank" is that it is really easy to type but not so easy to execute. We tried to get another player like (fill in your favorite QB) for years.... never happened. "Trying to get" is a dime a dozen. Keeping a known commodity is MUCH safer and easier to do. You must have heard about the bird in the hand is worth two in the bush (I love it when I can get some bush worked into an analogy)". Gilmore is another example. I (and my buddy BB) thought he was "another player like..." but he no longer was. Fuller has helped us. Why try to get another player like Fuller when we already have the real Fuller?
That is 100% true. Shouldn't have gotten rid of Forte/Marshal or Bennett. And we shouldn't be quick to get rid of Fuller. That's why I'm all for FT'ing him. Make sure this wasn't a fluke year make sure he works w/the next Def. I'd be all for Trumane Johnson and/or re signing Prince A also. I think Prince and Fuller make a hell of 1 2 combo.
but just to be sure, would you pay Fuller anything to keep him? Say 5yr 65 mil w/40 guaranteed? Would it be worth keeping him at that price; or would it be better off letting him go and trying to get another player, like Prince, T Johnson, or a high draft pick?
Ric, the problem with "trying to get another player like... fill in the blank" is that is is really easy to type but not so easy to execute. We tried to get another player like (fill in your favorite QB) for years.... never happened). Trying to get is a dime a dozen. Keeping a known commodity is MUCH safer and easier to do. You must have heard about the bird in the hand is worth two in the bush (I love it when I can get some bush worked into an analogy)". Gilmore is another example. I (and my buddy BB) thought he was "another player like..." but he no longer was. Fuller has helped us. Why try to get another player like Fuller when we already have the real Fuller?
Makes no sense to me at all.
That's why teams don't try and build through the draft, glad you are figuring that out. Got to get the replacements in the draft. But QB isn't really a good comparison, but guys like Manning and Brees rarely become available, even w/1 or 2 years left. Other positions do w/a lot more regularity. Teams will find a way to keep, even an average qb, even if it means hurting their cap(see Bears w/Cutler) but won't do the same for an average RB or WR or DB; they might w/a really good, but not great pass rusher or OT.
B/c Fuller has helped us 1 year out of 4, he helped us in his contract year in the 3rd year of the Fang def that might not be here next year. That's why. If Fang is here next year then it makes more sense to just try and sign him, but not for stupid "market value" costs ie Gilmore; but w/the coaches likely gone(all of them) why do you trust Fuller to continue to "help" when it's not a contract year, and it's the first year of a new system? History says those are not years he's been good.
Ric, the problem with "trying to get another player like... fill in the blank" is that is is really easy to type but not so easy to execute. We tried to get another player like (fill in your favorite QB) for years.... never happened). Trying to get is a dime a dozen. Keeping a known commodity is MUCH safer and easier to do. You must have heard about the bird in the hand is worth two in the bush (I love it when I can get some bush worked into an analogy)". Gilmore is another example. I (and my buddy BB) thought he was "another player like..." but he no longer was. Fuller has helped us. Why try to get another player like Fuller when we already have the real Fuller?
Makes no sense to me at all.
That's why teams don't try and build through the draft, glad you are figuring that out. Got to get the replacements in the draft. But QB isn't really a good comparison, but guys like Manning and Brees rarely become available, even w/1 or 2 years left. Other positions do w/a lot more regularity. Teams will find a way to keep, even an average qb, even if it means hurting their cap(see Bears w/Cutler) but won't do the same for an average RB or WR or DB; they might w/a really good, but not great pass rusher or OT.
B/c Fuller has helped us 1 year out of 4, he helped us in his contract year in the 3rd year of the Fang def that might not be here next year. That's why. If Fang is here next year then it makes more sense to just try and sign him, but not for stupid "market value" costs ie Gilmore; but w/the coaches likely gone(all of them) why do you trust Fuller to continue to "help" when it's not a contract year, and it's the first year of a new system? History says those are not years he's been good.
No, I didn't say that. You said that and you are twisting my words. I said you have to build through the draft AND FA in order to be successful. Teams that are only good at drafting better get good at FA also or they will have a competitive disadvantage to the teams that can do both. Just because we have not done well in FA does not mean it is not a viable way to build the team. It means we are not as good at FA. Don;t throw the baby out with the bath water. FA works if you do it right.
I have to admire the single minded focus you have that enables you to stick to a position despite any realities, facts, or pretty much anything else that happens to come your way.