Lets give him some time, I remember how Leno was bashed... I really think they can be solid, not great but solid for us
Huge difference Alex. Leno is smaller but very athletic for an OT and has arms like a gorilla. Massie is bigger but much slower and far less athletic. For the most part Leno was able to handle speed from the edge earlier in the game but eventually tired and he got overwhelmed and beaten badly by Mercilus on just one play. Massie couldn't handle his guy all game long.
Lets give him some time, I remember how Leno was bashed... I really think they can be solid, not great but solid for us
Huge difference Alex. Leno is smaller but very athletic for an OT and has arms like a gorilla. Massie is bigger but much slower and far less athletic. For the most part Leno was able to handle speed from the edge earlier in the game but eventually tired and he got overwhelmed and beaten badly by Mercilus on just one play. Massie couldn't handle his guy all game long.
I know, im just giving some time for Massie to settle down
That could be. But this isn't a rookie Leno struggling at RT a couple years ago. This is a veteran in his 5th season. Leno had a tough day too, at LT on Sunday. But the difference (to me) is that Leno can hold his own against a lot of D players... he may not be great, but he has been serviceable. But Massie looks painfully slow footed out there - and that scouting report during his draft year, seemed to be saying the same thing.
Can you fix "slow?" The guy looks like a sloth out there trying to move his feet.
I agree with you, im just trying to console myself
Huge difference Alex. Leno is smaller but very athletic for an OT and has arms like a gorilla. Massie is bigger but much slower and far less athletic. For the most part Leno was able to handle speed from the edge earlier in the game but eventually tired and he got overwhelmed and beaten badly by Mercilus on just one play. Massie couldn't handle his guy all game long.
I know, im just giving some time for Massie to settle down
It's not nerves or lack of experience. He's a 5 year vet. He's just not a good pass blocker is all and he never will be. Players tend to top out around their third year. He's well past that now which is why AZ didn't try to re-sign him.
Lets give him some time, I remember how Leno was bashed... I really think they can be solid, not great but solid for us
That could be. But this isn't a rookie Leno struggling at RT a couple years ago. This is a veteran in his 5th season. Leno had a tough day too, at LT on Sunday. But the difference (to me) is that Leno can hold his own against a lot of D players... he may not be great, but he has been serviceable. But Massie looks painfully slow footed out there - and that scouting report during his draft year, seemed to be saying the same thing.
Can you fix "slow?" The guy looks like a sloth out there trying to move his feet.
Nope.
However, You can "help". Scruggs is a 277 Lbs TE. Of course, that kills a part of your offensive dynamic by keeping another guy in to block, but it may be better than getting your QB killed.
Look, he's not going to have the same difficult with everyone. However, in those games where we have difficult match-ups, he is going to need help, it's as simple as that. A good running game and successful play action also helps. There are ways to help, but not fix.
Wasn't his piss poor pass protection the reason why the Cardinals dropped him?
Yes but all we heard about was how the Cardinals did 7 step drops on every pass play and no one can be expected to pass block for a seven step system, hence and therefore, Massie's inability to pass block was ok because the Bears don't run a 7 step drop system.
Arians said in the preseason that dropping Massie AND Larsen improved the right side of the OL in Arizona, yet Pace goes and signs both. link references the running game but the point still holds.
EDIT: If I get time tonight I want to time the sacks Cutler took just to see how long they were. I don't think any of them were over 3 seconds from snap to first contact with a pass rusher.
Wasn't his piss poor pass protection the reason why the Cardinals dropped him?
Yes but all we heard about was how the Cardinals did 7 step drops on every pass play and no one can be expected to pass block for a seven step system, hence and therefore, Massie's inability to pass block was ok because the Bears don't run a 7 step drop system.
Arians said in the preseason that dropping Massie AND Larsen improved the right side of the OL in Arizona, yet Pace goes and signs both. link references the running game but the point still holds.
+1 Hopefully the run-blocking will get better at least. Right now we don't look so hot run or pass blocking :-(
I never followed this guy prior to him coming here to the Bears. I was kind of shocked by how slow he looked Sunday. Do you think this is a guy who can improve. What do you guys think?
Here's his scouting report from NFL.com on him (prior to him being drafted in 2012):
Massie is not a very dynamic athlete and is a slow-footed mover. He is not a natural bender and is rigid in many of his movements. He labors to work to the second level and and struggles when sifting through traffic to engage his man. He relies on catching his man as a blocker in pass protection and will get in trouble with that technique at the next level.
Doesn't that match what we saw on Sunday?
JABF, you and I had this discussion in the offseason (this board or the other, I can't recall). Watched him all last year here in AZ and his strengths and weaknesses are well known.
Hes a solid run blocker and a powerful guy to stuff a bull rush but he's NOT quick footed and therefore struggles vs speed off the edge in pass pro. That ISNT going to change. He's 27 or so and is what he is. Said it before the Houston game: on deep drops esp against a speedy edge rusher he's gonna need chip help from a RB or TE all the time.
How our coaching staff doesn't know that is beyond me. None of this stuff is "news".
Wasn't his piss poor pass protection the reason why the Cardinals dropped him?
Yes but all we heard about was how the Cardinals did 7 step drops on every pass play and no one can be expected to pass block for a seven step system, hence and therefore, Massie's inability to pass block was ok because the Bears don't run a 7 step drop system.
Arians said in the preseason that dropping Massie AND Larsen improved the right side of the OL in Arizona, yet Pace goes and signs both. link references the running game but the point still holds.
Yeah, I don't think there's a GM in the NFL who won't at least attempt to justify those he's signed as having the potential to play much better for "us" then he did for "them". That was one of JA's favorite ploys. It was BS then and it's still BS now.
A good player supersedes the scheme he plays in. Massie is just not a very good pass blocker period no matter how many steps his QB is dropping back. Maybe they though his playing next to Long would help but Kyle can't fix slow either and he can't always help him out like he when he pancaked Watts for him.
Don't know if anyone caught the mention of it or not but Pace tried to sign Jeff Allen who was an OT in college at Illinois, a good pass blocker, and a high 2nd round pick by KC when he was available this spring but Allen signed with Houston instead. I guess Massie was our boobie prize. Day late and a dollar short again.
