"Cutler's relatively soft post game tone underscored the challenge the Bears face as they proceed with their youth movement. It's difficult to strike a balance between being patient with inexperienced players and the disappointment when mistakes change games."
That pretty much says it all. He is an incredibly gifted but raw WR. In his case there is a learning curve. We may not like it, but that's the situation we have here. At least he has the athletic gifts to improve. Guys like 5th-year veteran RT Massie don't have the physical tools to get better. I know I'm comparing a 1st round draft pick here to a FA pickup, so it's not the best comparison by any means. But my point is that we will eventually have a great WR here. I believe that. But there will also be pain as he learns his craft this year.
Everyone is going to have their own take on this, but I think we have a problem with White. Now, I am not saying that he does not have the ability or that he will not succeed, just that I think that in fact there is a problem.
Supposedly,the offense was not changed much since last year. White has been supposedly studying that offense for now more than a year and has been on the field with it for months.
He stopped a route short in the preseason. Then he did the same thing again this last Saturday. It appears to me that he is not absorbing the routes and further not understanding them even enough to keep from the same mistake. He is not playing fast because he really is not sure of himself. At some point, it will affect his confidence and then it is hard to determine if he will rally or become spoiled goods. His production tells the tale. He is not effective because he does not know what to do. He is going to take a while longer to get it from what I can see and we can expect to see a lot of double coverage on Jeffrey. The coaches need to figure out if they can bring out his potential and how best to do it. Hopefully, we see some growth from him THIS season.
Posters saying Cutler hung White out to dry don't understand the timing built into NFL offenses these days. Gone are the day when Stabler could sit back and wait for a WR to get open. All passing offenses are built around a WR and a QB seeing the same thing in a DEF and knowing that the route will be adjusted accordingly. Every OFF does this because DEFs are too good to wait for someone to flash open. Most passes are thrown before the WR is open and often before the WR has turned around. Watch Rogers throw slants. He releases the ball before the WR has even made his cut. Nelson/Cobb/whoever has less than a second to find the ball in the air while continuing to the spot. Nelson will take 2 steps upfield and cut, meanwhile his hands are in position to grab the ball even before he start his cut. If the route is broken OFF, well we all know what that looks like (ask Knox/Hester, they were masters of breaking off slants leaving the ball to do directly to a CB/S/LB.)
That why finding the ball is such a vital skill these days for WRs. The QBs not only know the routes, they have to place the ball exactly where the WR is looking for it. Don't remember what game I was watching yesterday where the WR had a step on the CB and was driving downfield. He looked up found the ball and it was on the opposite side then the route called for, he twisted around but couldn't haul it it. The key was that the WR didn't know the ball was coming to him until he looked up and 'found' it in the air, although not where he expected it. Cutler looked at the same thing White did, and White didn't see the adjustment he had to make. Cutler threw the ball to a spot, because the play call AND the formation AND the coverage dictated that White would be there. White wasn't there.
Cutler, as a captain and leader of the OFF, took blame he didn't have to. He is taught to took check his reads and then turn and throw. This isn't street football anymore. Why did he throw to that spot? Because that is where White was supposed to be. Rogers will yell at a WR at least once a game for the same thing.
Coaching? Football IQ? Game still too fast? Bears better figure it out. Once DEFs understand that White does't understand the OFF, the Bears will see more coverages like the second half yesterday with a safety rolled toward Jeffery and White left one on one with a CB2 or worse.
Well said bb!
Although KW is the absolute perfect guy to be running those quick slant because of his size, reach, and breakaway speed (and we've been talking about this ever since he was drafted) this is the reason why they might not even be in the game plan or the play list yet.
If the route is broken OFF, well we all know what that looks like (ask Knox/Hester, they were masters of breaking off slants leaving the ball to do directly to a CB/S/LB.)
It's a high risk throw right into the "danger zone" and if it's not timed well and completed it's gonna get picked or if the receiver bobbles the throw or it goes of his hands and into the air it's gonna get picked. If you can't trust the guy running that route to do it correctly not only will Cutler not throw to him, it won't even be in the game plan period and that's my guess as to why we didn't see any of it on Sunday.
General consensus is the NFL route tree is 9 routes . If you can't memorize 9 anythings in a year then ur just a dipstick . On the other hand why haven't the coaches MADE SURE he knows them ? Make him flashcards if needed - put him thru tests on the overhead projector DAILY until it's ingrained in his friggin head . If he had any pride he'd be working after practice every night till he can run them in his sleep .
Upside is : it should only get better from here .
It's not memorizing 9 routes, it's memorizing a crap load of actual play names and which route needs to be run. I think you are generalizing it way too much. I played some WR in high school and hated it because I struggled remembering the plays. I preferred playing defense. Have you ever heard the play calling in the NFL? It's ridiculous and it's one of the reasons Goff is not starting for the Rams.
I'm not trying to make excuses for White though, just making sure everyone knows that being a WR is a lot more than just memorizing 9 routes. Every offensive player has to remember the same plays so there is no excuse for him not being able to though. I really hope he gets his game together.
Oh for cryin' out loud Hawk the routes are part of the play call the QB makes in the huddle prior to the play. If part of that play call is Z-Out and White is playing the Flanker position he runs an out. He may have to know them for both the Flanker and the Split End positions (he doesn't play in the slot as far as I know) but an out is an out and a dig is still a dig no matter which position you play.
The line positions and or gaps are numbered for the RB to when a running play is called he knows which gap he should expect the blocking to open. If by the time a RB gets to college he doesn't know that he will end up on defense. The QB needs to know everyone's assignment which is why it takes them longer to assimilate all of the playbook. White only needs to learn his parts of it. We're making this harder than it is.
Well I heard Cutler take his share or responsibility for it but so far White hasn't responded after he uh, watched the game tape. Had he been where Cutler believed he would be based on the play call there's a good chance with his size it would have been a completion. The Safety had to dive to get to it and had White been there his body would have shielded the Safety from the ball.
I'd agree that it wasn't the best throw Cutler made all day but there are times when your receiver has to bail you out of a tight spot and that was one of them. And yes the protection broke down but he did get the throw off and it was a catchable ball.
According to Cutler Loggains has changed little or nothing as far as the basic offensive scheme goes and none of the terminology so an out pattern called for White is still called the same call under Loggains at was under Gase. Loggains approach to play calling is a bit different and Cutler has also commented on that but Loggains didn't bring in an entirely new offense or playbook and even if he had White has had since January to learn that one.
I don't hate the kid seqq I just want him to get his head out of his ass and realize he has a job to do and a team whose counting on him to do it well.
If White was just suppose to run up and out, i would agree that a tight window would have been created, but imo i still think the defender would have been in the better position. With a defender on top and one under, both being outside of where White's cut, Jay needs to lead that ball more outside so no defender has the chance.
And i am not believing what anyone says on that team about injuries or how things have changed or not changed in the playbook lol
As you pointed out the rush was in his lap and he couldn't step into the throw so he threw a bit of a lob he anticipated his 6'3" 217lb WR could come down with if covered by two 6' or less DBs. They were only outside of him because he turned his route in first, the corrected himself to an out, than sat the route completely leaving the Safety an open lane to he ball.
It was his only option at that point. The ball was released before the route stem break thinking White would run the correct route (he didn't) and like I said there are times when your receiver has to make that catch and bail you out of a tough spot. Osweiler's guys did a few times but in this case White did not. What I'm saying is true no matter what the actual truth of it is.
If Cutler loses his trust in him he may just as well not be on the field at all. He won't be getting targeted often and that will hurt the offense by eliminating options.
It was Cutler I'm referring to who spoke at length on the scheme and terminologies being the same not Fox or Loggains. He said that Dowell is a bit more fundamental than Gase and less willing to open the playbook to a "let's see if this works" approach but otherwise it's all the same an intentionally so he and the rest of the offense didn't have yet another new schemed to learn.
Post by datreebearz on Sept 13, 2016 16:48:05 GMT -6
What the hell do these guys do all week and all month? White's day at work. White: Ok, when I complete a route and Jay still hasn't thrown the ball what shall I do next? Got it. I'll put my thumb up my ass and after I fukkk up I'll just say "Jay and I just need to get on the same toilet paper." Damn it, it's "same page" this shit is hard.
If White was just suppose to run up and out, i would agree that a tight window would have been created, but imo i still think the defender would have been in the better position. With a defender on top and one under, both being outside of where White's cut, Jay needs to lead that ball more outside so no defender has the chance.
And i am not believing what anyone says on that team about injuries or how things have changed or not changed in the playbook lol
As you pointed out the rush was in his lap and he couldn't step into the throw so he threw a bit of a lob he anticipated his 6'3" 217lb WR could come down with if covered by two 6' or less DBs. They were only outside of him because he turned his route in first, the corrected himself to an out, than sat the route completely leaving the Safety an open lane to he ball.
It was his only option at that point. The ball was released before the route stem break thinking White would run the correct route (he didn't) and like I said there are times when your receiver has to make that catch and bail you out of a tough spot. Osweiler's guys did a few times but in this case White did not. What I'm saying is true no matter what the actual truth of it is.
If Cutler loses his trust in him he may just as well not be on the field at all. He won't be getting targeted often and that will hurt the offense by eliminating options.
It was Cutler I'm referring to who spoke at length on the scheme and terminologies being the same not Fox or Loggains. He said that Dowell is a bit more fundamental than Gase and less willing to open the playbook to a "let's see if this works" approach but otherwise it's all the same an intentionally so he and the rest of the offense didn't have yet another new schemed to learn.
Not trying to argue this, just in case my tone seems to imply that
I just disagree on the bold part... I think Hal was going to cover the flat regardless. He fake blitzed and pulled out. White was the outside most receiver and White's route sent him inside several yards before his break. Going in those yards put the under defender basically even with White but still with outside position. And since Hal did not see a Rb or anyone else coming out to the flat during his fake blitz, he turns on his shadow coverage, saw White was going inside(or suppose to) and quickly snapped his head around and picked it off...
I have a feeling we will agree to disagree on this LoL Don't see the beer smiley, so cheers and Bear Down!
Post by blueshoes on Sept 13, 2016 18:11:06 GMT -6
Excuses excuses . The guys had a friggin YEAR to learn all this stuff - wtf has he been doing ? These are sandbox 101 mistakes he's making .
That said , like I said b4 it should only get better from here . I haven't lost faith cuz I remember what he looked like in college and he was a frickin wildman . So once he " gets it " I believe we'll see some really great plays outta him for a long time .
Excuses excuses . The guys had a friggin YEAR to learn all this stuff - wtf has he been doing ? These are sandbox 101 mistakes he's making .
That said , like I said b4 it should only get better from here . I haven't lost faith cuz I remember what he looked like in college and he was a frickin wildman . So once he " gets it " I believe we'll see some really great plays outta him for a long time .
"A year to learn" is only in the classroom. They aint playing in a classroom.
Just one thought i am becoming more curious about is his on field vision...maybe he just doesn't see it!
Just like Cutler who is known for having moments where the pieces are late to get in place. Maybe White has issues recognizing the field movement post-snap...
As you pointed out the rush was in his lap and he couldn't step into the throw so he threw a bit of a lob he anticipated his 6'3" 217lb WR could come down with if covered by two 6' or less DBs. They were only outside of him because he turned his route in first, the corrected himself to an out, than sat the route completely leaving the Safety an open lane to he ball.
It was his only option at that point. The ball was released before the route stem break thinking White would run the correct route (he didn't) and like I said there are times when your receiver has to make that catch and bail you out of a tough spot. Osweiler's guys did a few times but in this case White did not. What I'm saying is true no matter what the actual truth of it is.
If Cutler loses his trust in him he may just as well not be on the field at all. He won't be getting targeted often and that will hurt the offense by eliminating options.
It was Cutler I'm referring to who spoke at length on the scheme and terminologies being the same not Fox or Loggains. He said that Dowell is a bit more fundamental than Gase and less willing to open the playbook to a "let's see if this works" approach but otherwise it's all the same an intentionally so he and the rest of the offense didn't have yet another new schemed to learn.
Not trying to argue this, just in case my tone seems to imply that
I just disagree on the bold part... I think Hal was going to cover the flat regardless. He fake blitzed and pulled out. White was the outside most receiver and White's route sent him inside several yards before his break. Going in those yards put the under defender basically even with White but still with outside position. And since Hal did not see a Rb or anyone else coming out to the flat during his fake blitz, he turns on his shadow coverage, saw White was going inside(or suppose to) and quickly snapped his head around and picked it off...
I have a feeling we will agree to disagree on this LoL Don't see the beer smiley, so cheers and Bear Down!
I've only been able to watch it a couple of times but two people can see the same thing and have two different perspectives. Happens all the time. I just don't want to see Jay lose his faith in him and find we need to take that option off that table we need his speed and big play potential.
We do need to import some additional similes here soon. We've been so busy clearing all the new memberships and posting some of our other Admin stuff has been shelved but we'll get there with some added stuff soon. IMHO those we have are not nearly expressive enough. LOL