Again...that opportunity to try again elsewhere has to be there. I'm willing to bet Fox is canned after this season, and Pace gets to hire his guy. There are some interesting names potentially out there.
There is still a fair amount of speculation on how much Ted Philips is involved in this stuff. That is what I was trying to address. I feel that Pace, left alone on this, would go out and do a decent candidate search and hire for a new HC.
IMHO we're about to find out whether that's true or not.
Teddy Bears is the other albatross who needs to go. GMcC can tell us Phillips has little to do with anything but it's not true. He's the CEO and no one with that title is a mere figurehead. Ted still sticks his nose into football affairs and he's permitted to because the McCaskeys don't know what else to do with him.
He lacks the football knowledge for his position but he's turned the family from millionaires into billionaires and they will be loyal to him based on that alone. He should be removed but they won't do it. The best we can hope for is what I've been suggesting but that would require Phillips stepping aside to a large degree and he will fight that.
The odd thing is I have always felt that Phillips was a much bigger villain in this whole mess than he's ever been charged with being simply because he stays as far out of the spotlight as he can but not out of the picture.
I agree. I don't know how much Pace is getting but I think we can all agree it's a damn sight more than he was getting in NOLA AND it was another step up the career ladder. We don't know whether or not Fox as HC was a condition of his being hired or simply that we was persuaded to accept this by Ernie Accorsi who I believe is getting off the hook easier than he should be.
Since he is or was an NFL paid consultant maybe we should look more carefully at how it's run and IMHO not well.
This kinda deal goes all the way back to when Mikey was forced to hire an outside consultant to hire Jerry Angelo. So the lack of expertise involved with hiring top talent to run their team has been a McCaskey issue for a very long time.
So, its ok to take over a very responsible position, although you know it is not under your conditions, because it pays much more? I have a real problem digesting this. And hopefully that is not what he's done.
Ryan Pace was going to get a solid GM offer, regardless of whether or not it was the Bears. He was viewed as a rising young star GM candidate. Credit the Bears for jumping in and getting him before somebody else did. Pace didn't have to agree to be some puppet to get this job... he'd be nuts to do that. Pace chose to hire a veteran head coach instead of getting some inexperienced guy like Marc Trestman. Does THAT sound crazy? I hope not. I thought it was a good move at the time and said so. So far it hasn't worked out. But I do see the logic of the move at the time.
Why do we buy into these crazy conspiracy theories about Pace? I just don't get it.
So, its ok to take over a very responsible position, although you know it is not under your conditions, because it pays much more? I have a real problem digesting this. And hopefully that is not what he's done.
Ryan Pace was going to get a solid GM offer, regardless of whether or not it was the Bears. He was viewed as a rising young star GM candidate. Credit the Bears for jumping in and getting him before somebody else did. Pace didn't have to agree to be some puppet to get this job... he'd be nuts to do that. Pace chose to hire a veteran head coach instead of getting some inexperienced guy like Marc Trestman. Does THAT sound crazy? I hope not. I thought it was a good move at the time and said so. So far it hasn't worked out. But I do see the logic of the move at the time.
Why do we buy into these crazy conspiracy theories about Pace? I just don't get it.
I agree. And I hold him responsible. Its that easy.
Fox is gonna be gone sooner rather than later. I feel pretty good about Pace bringing in a new head coach. I really do. And the new HC will have some exciting young people on the way up, rather than one of the oldest rosters in the NFL with people on their way down. We have a lot to look forward to, IMHO.
Alex I believe Pace was thinking more about his own career at that time and talking the Bears GM job was a huge step up for him both in salary and prestige. I also believe Accorsi may have told him of his idea to package him with Fox and cautioned against resisting it or he may not get the job.
I believe that because of the Emery/Trestman fiasco Phillps and GMcC appealed to the NFL for help in doing these hirings so Accorsi wielded a lot of clout then. They weren't gonna bring him in and then shun his advice provided he could bring them a solution they could live with. So that's what Accorsi did.
I think we've all made decisions in our lives based on what we knew we could get done vs whether or not that was the absolute best decision we could make. Accorsi didn't work for the Bears he was simply an NFL paid consultant provided to help them hire a new HC and GM. Once that was done he had no other horse in the race. Certainly no one is writing articles about him these days and how he may have screwed this up. It's all on Phillips and GMcC.
This is why I keep saying these two guys should not be running this football team. They don't have the ability to do it correctly and yet the McCaskeys will not either replace Phillips as the CEO or hire an Exec VP to do what neither Phillips or the McCaskeys are able to do. Once Fox is gone, and lacking that more experienced guy all of the responsibility for hiring a new HC will fall to Pace. Is he ready for that because his job depends on getting it right this time?
I have my issues with the way the entire organization is run and I have for a very long time. Maybe Pace gets this right or maybe he doesn't and if he doesn't it will be Bears fans who will continue to suffer watching a team that reminds me far more of the futility of the Lions under Matt Millen than an Bears team I have experienced in my lifetime. They are just not a well run team and that should be quite obvious to all of us.
Im well aware of that, but it still raises the same ethical dilemma. If HC was not his pick, and he thought results will not be optimal, then he should've passed on this job. If he took it either way, it is reasonable and only fair he will pay for it in the end.
I don't think he knew the results would not be optimal Alex. I think it got down to look we can hire Fox and Gase will come along too so that was the compromise. The problem was we couldn't hold onto Gase and if we knew that why didn't Pace? To me it was a between a rock and hard place package deal that was pretty cleverly manipulated because that's how the Bears do business.
Pace is paying for it now and he realizes it. If you ask me he wanted to fire Fox back in January and GMcC bargained with him to hold off one more year. In exchange for that he got GMcC's public vote of confidence and the right to proceed as he saw fit without paying any heed to Fox and his preferences. That pretty much appears to be what's happened right?
Let's also remember that both these guys have contract that clearly spell out their authority over things. I think just this past week Fox made it clear that the decision to play Trubisky is not his and his alone. He strongly implied Pace was controlling this which is typical of Fox. It's his way of taking himself off the hook and passing the buck over to Pace.
Conversely Pace can't tell Fox how to coach his team anymore than Elway could here in Denver so when Fox basically reminded Elway of that he left him with no choice but to fire him which regardless of the story line in the media is what he did. This is Fox and it's what I've been telling everyone. He's gonna do it his way and if someone doesn't like it well then fire me.
He's not gonna coach again so had Pace been able to fire him in January he walks away with $10 mil of McCaskey money for doing nada and they have to spend more to hire another HC. Fox had leverage and he knew it. He still has that same leverage but this time it won't work. He knows he's gone come January and he's just mailing it in pretty much like he has since last year. It was a bigger job than he realized, he and Pace don't agree, so he shows up and does what he has to and that's it.
Fox is gonna be gone sooner rather than later. I feel pretty good about Pace bringing in a new head coach. I really do. And the new HC will have some exciting young people on the way up, rather than one of the oldest rosters in the NFL with people on their way down. We have a lot to look forward to, IMHO.
Maybe, I hope so. Lets take a look... QB should be set with Trub. What about other O? We have LT, hopefully RT, C. G's are under a huge question mark. RB should be great. Hopefully were good at TE, but WR's nowhere to be found. D - Hicks, Goldman and maybe Bullard, Floyd hopefully, maybe Kwiat and Cooper. Fuller has a chance, but not a big one. S Amos and Eddie need to step up. Very, very few Probowlers here atm.
So, its ok to take over a very responsible position, although you know it is not under your conditions, because it pays much more? I have a real problem digesting this. And hopefully that is not what he's done.
Ryan Pace was going to get a solid GM offer, regardless of whether or not it was the Bears. He was viewed as a rising young star GM candidate. Credit the Bears for jumping in and getting him before somebody else did. Pace didn't have to agree to be some puppet to get this job... he'd be nuts to do that. Pace chose to hire a veteran head coach instead of getting some inexperienced guy like Marc Trestman. Does THAT sound crazy? I hope not. I thought it was a good move at the time and said so. So far it hasn't worked out. But I do see the logic of the move at the time.
Why do we buy into these crazy conspiracy theories about Pace? I just don't get it.
No one called him a puppet D. Those are your words or your way of seeing it but not mine.
I've said all of what I can or care to about it. I believe what I believe and everyone else is welcome to believe as they choose. I'm just stating an opinion and backing it with whatever facts I have that have allowed me to fill in some of the rest of the blanks.
Time will tell but if Fox is truly Pace's guy and if Pace hired him then he'll stick with him again just as he is with Kevin White. I don't think you can look at how a man approaches his job and interpret two different ways of doing things. He drafted Kevin White and so far it appears he will give him every chance to eventually succeed before throwing in the towel.
Let's see if he does the same with Fox. He could very easily use injuries as an excuse to keep Fox as well. Will he??
Fox is gonna be gone sooner rather than later. I feel pretty good about Pace bringing in a new head coach. I really do. And the new HC will have some exciting young people on the way up, rather than one of the oldest rosters in the NFL with people on their way down. We have a lot to look forward to, IMHO.
Maybe, I hope so. Lets take a look... QB should be set with Trub. What about other O? We have LT, hopefully RT, C. G's are under a huge question mark. RB should be great. Hopefully were good at TE, but WR's nowhere to be found. D - Hicks, Goldman and maybe Bullard, Floyd hopefully, maybe Kwiat and Cooper. Fuller has a chance, but not a big one. S Amos and Eddie need to step up. Very, very few Probowlers here atm.
I figure if you HAD to have a position of extreme need, WR is one that is easier fixed than many others are. Regarding the rest of the team, we have a ton of new/young people who should take a step next year. And we will have another draft and FA. I'm hoping Trubisky gets some work this year, and then can build on that next year. Did any of you watch Goff last night? Everybody was down on him last season, even some folks wondering if he's gonna be a bust. LOL. That kid is amazing. Looked absolutely amazing last night for a youngster. Now, we got one of them guys ourselves. I'm itchin' for Mitch to get the start sooner rather than later this year. He seems like a smart kid and a quick study kind of guy. He will be READY to step in soon. And it's 100% fine if he struggles this year getting game-reps. That's what this year is for, IMHO. Next year, do the Goff-thing and show the NFL what a great young QB looks like.
Ryan Pace was going to get a solid GM offer, regardless of whether or not it was the Bears. He was viewed as a rising young star GM candidate. Credit the Bears for jumping in and getting him before somebody else did. Pace didn't have to agree to be some puppet to get this job... he'd be nuts to do that. Pace chose to hire a veteran head coach instead of getting some inexperienced guy like Marc Trestman. Does THAT sound crazy? I hope not. I thought it was a good move at the time and said so. So far it hasn't worked out. But I do see the logic of the move at the time.
Why do we buy into these crazy conspiracy theories about Pace? I just don't get it.
No one called him a puppet D. Those are your words or your way of seeing it but not mine.
I've said all of what I can or care to about it. I believe what I believe and everyone else is welcome to believe as they choose. I'm just stating an opinion and backing it with whatever facts I have that have allowed me to fill in some of the rest of the blanks.
Time will tell but if Fox is truly Pace's guy and if Pace hired him then he'll stick with him again just as he is with Kevin White. I don't think you can look at how a man approaches his job and interpret two different ways of doing things. He drafted Kevin White and so far it appears he will give him every chance to eventually succeed before throwing in the towel.
Let's see if he does the same with Fox. He could very easily use injuries as an excuse to keep Fox as well. Will he??
You make some good points, Soul. I'm not dissing you here (at least not my intent). And honestly, we'll never know for sure what went on behind closed doors. We still have most of an entire season to see if Fox can do anything good this year. And hey, anything is possible. I even thought about Sunday's game with the Steelers. At first blush I laugh about us thinking we can win that game... but you know, anything can happen in the NFL. What if we do? What if Fox strings together a better season than all of us predict? I know it seems impossible at this point, but stuff happens. I could see a scenario where Fox gets to finish his contract next season, if he did win enough this year. I figure it's a long, really long shot. But who knows?
But I'm not dissing you on this. We just disagree. LOL, you are usually right and I'm usually wrong when we disagree... I'm thinkin' I'm due to get SOMETHING right :-)
Tough call...so few of these jobs present themselves. I can understand why he would take the job.
I agree. I don't know how much Pace is getting but I think we can all agree it's a damn sight more than he was getting in NOLA AND it was another step up the career ladder. We don't know whether or not Fox as HC was a condition of his being hired or simply that we was persuaded to accept this by Ernie Accorsi who I believe is getting off the hook easier than he should be.
Since he is or was an NFL paid consultant maybe we should look more carefully at how it's run and IMHO not well.
This kinda deal goes all the way back to when Mikey was forced to hire an outside consultant to hire Jerry Angelo. So the lack of expertise involved with hiring top talent to run their team has been a McCaskey issue for a very long time.
And who knows...perhaps one of the ways Pace was convinced to take the job was by being told if Fox doesn't work out he'll have an opportunity to bring his own guy in...it won't solely fall on his head. Who knows.