If our line is going to perform like they did against TB for the rest of the season I don't want Trub anywhere near the starting position.
Oh for Christ sake he's not made of glass. No one around here was crying about shit like this for the 8 years Cutler took his licks yet was called out as not being tough enough but you want to keep this precious little egg of a QB in his egg crate?
**** that. The kid is gonna take shots. This is the Bears he's playing for not the f'ing Pats. How long would you like to keep junior safe in his sideline playpen before you let him out? He needs to learn to take hits and recover too. That's part of being an NFL QB.
Cutler wasn't a rookie and already had 2 years in the league. The situation was completely different. Also I have no idea what you are talking about no one caring about Cutler and the lines he was behind. All I ever saw on Bears' boards was people complaining about the garbage lines JA kept giving him and how we were getting him killed taking all those hits.
I personally am certainly not an advocate for keeping Trub on the bench all season and have stated many times that if he's ready put him out there. But Trub has only started one year in college. Dumping him into a dysfunctional offense isn't going to help him learn the game, he's just going to get beat up or injured. I'm hoping the last game was just a really bad day for everybody and we see the return of competence going forward. Until I see the line performing at a half decent level for a game or two I'm keeping Trub out.
If our line is going to perform like they did against TB for the rest of the season I don't want Trub anywhere near the starting position.
This is the lamest excuse I've heard so far.
Glennon's protection was adequate both games and even with a banged up unit the Bears are better on the OL than a bunch of teams like Houston, NYG, Cleveland, Green Bay, etc. Most of Glennon's sacks were completely or partially on him for being a cement shoes statue out there.
I don't see Watson, Eli, Rodgers, or Kizer sitting because of it. Sorry, I don't buy it.
PS: Eli is getting wrecked out there and getting hit hard over and over. Yet he's started every game for NYG for something like 7 straight season without a single miss. Funny, how Bears players (cue up Fuller and Jeffery especially) can't get off the trainers table for months at a time.
If our line is going to perform like they did against TB for the rest of the season I don't want Trub anywhere near the starting position.
Oh for Christ sake he's not made of glass. No one around here was crying about shit like this for the 8 years Cutler took his licks yet was called out as not being tough enough but you want to keep this precious little egg of a QB in his egg crate[\B]?
**** that. The kid is gonna take shots. This is the Bears he's playing for not the f'ing Pats. How long would you like to keep junior safe in his sideline playpen before you let him out? He needs to learn to take hits and recover too. That's part of being an NFL QB.
That's the FIRST thing that came to my mind. So many hated on Cutty and they cried about how it was all his fault although he played behind one of the worst O lines year in and year out while he was a Bear but now the O line (that is far from great but they aren't the worst) is a reason to not play a certain QB???
Oh for Christ sake he's not made of glass. No one around here was crying about shit like this for the 8 years Cutler took his licks yet was called out as not being tough enough but you want to keep this precious little egg of a QB in his egg crate?
**** that. The kid is gonna take shots. This is the Bears he's playing for not the f'ing Pats. How long would you like to keep junior safe in his sideline playpen before you let him out? He needs to learn to take hits and recover too. That's part of being an NFL QB.
Cutler wasn't a rookie and already had 2 years in the league. The situation was completely different. Also I have no idea what you are talking about no one caring about Cutler and the lines he was behind. All I ever saw on Bears' boards was people complaining about the garbage lines JA kept giving him and how we were getting him killed taking all those hits.
I personally am certainly not an advocate for keeping Trub on the bench all season and have stated many times that if he's ready put him out there. But Trub has only started one year in college. Dumping him into a dysfunctional offense isn't going to help him learn the game, he's just going to get beat up or injured. I'm hoping the last game was just a really bad day for everybody and we see the return of competence going forward. Until I see the line performing at a half decent level for a game or two I'm keeping Trub out.
Without him the offense will remain dysfunctional just as it has since Gase left and they've been forced to play Foxy-ball. I would hope that Trubisky can make it less dysfunctional. Rookies don't sit any longer, they play.
No one in Nashville or Tampa Bay were trying to protect Mariotta and Winston from harm two years ago and neither team was much good. Has Glennon gotten beat up and injured yet? He's a statue whereas Trubisky is far more like an Aaron Rodgers with his mobility and escapability.
If Glennon did go down mid-game Trubisky would be playing anyway so what in the hell is the difference between it happening because of that or simply by intention? The thinking that rookie QBs don't play is passe anywhere else in the NFL that doesn't have John Fox as it's HC. Sure, the plan was to play Glennon and let Trubisky learn behind him but it'snot working. What can Mitch learn from watching Glennon except what not to do and that I think he already knows.
Fox's practically neurotic aversion to using a rookie QB isn't a good reason for not playing Trubisky now that we know Glennon is even worse than we imagined. But then any QB who plays here will look worse playing for John Fox than he's likely to look any place else he plays. Cutler shook off the rust pretty easily on Sunday, managed a good game his first time out, and won without any camp or preseason warm ups at all. This is all about Fox and his comfort level not at all about getting Trubisky hurt. That's an excuse and it's not a good one.
Actually the proper way to do this is to fire Fox first then play Trubisky but this is the Bears so I give that about a 1% chance of happening. Sooner or later he's gonna play and as it stands he's probably already better prepared to play than Glennon whose gonna lose his support very quickly playing like he has been. When that happens Fox won't have a choice again just like he didn't when Hoyer got hurt last year and he was forced to go back to Cutler when he didn't want to.
Why is it so hard for people to see how Fox has utterly destroyed this offense? In the long run we aren't doing Trubisky or this team any favors by making him sit when he's the better player. All John Fox is doing is accommodating his own preferences for as long as he's allowed to. He should have been fired in January but GMcC didn't have the nuts to do it and take the heat for it so we're stuck with this shit again.
Oh for Christ sake he's not made of glass. No one around here was crying about shit like this for the 8 years Cutler took his licks yet was called out as not being tough enough but you want to keep this precious little egg of a QB in his egg crate[\B]?
**** that. The kid is gonna take shots. This is the Bears he's playing for not the f'ing Pats. How long would you like to keep junior safe in his sideline playpen before you let him out? He needs to learn to take hits and recover too. That's part of being an NFL QB.
That's the FIRST thing that came to my mind. So many hated on Cutty and they cried about how it was all his fault although he played behind one of the worst O lines year in and year out while he was a Bear but now the O line (that is far from great but they aren't the worst) is a reason to not play a certain QB???
Every reason be given isn't one. They're all excuses. The plain fact is Fox does not want to play Trubisky and so far Pace has been content to allow that. Even after Trubisky had outplayed both Glennon and Sanchez in preseason it was like getting Fox to volunteer for a root canal without anesthesia to get him to even make Mitch the #2 QB.
This whole deal is a combination of two things. Pace paid......no he overpaid for a career #2 who hasn't started in two years and he's hoping to save face but it's not happening and he needs to admit it. Fox doesn't want to play a rookie QB anyway and never has therefore it suits Paces purposes as well to have Glennon starting because of his paycheck.
I'm sitting here trying to figure out why when just about every other team in the NFL is looking at this shaking their heads and thinking wow this is really all Cleveland and NY Jets kinda ****ed up we still have fans and posters buying into the party line coming outta Halas Hall when we know it's all ****ed up too.
At what point do we top making excuses for this crap feast as fast or faster than Fox can for his own pathetic coaching?
Post by brasilbear on Sept 22, 2017 8:01:02 GMT -6
Another point of view: (and when did people forget how to write? Good Lord man, write in paragraphs, not disjointed sentences. I apologize for that on his behalf.)
The Mitch Trubisky Question: Does Sitting a Rookie QB Really Help?
The Bears are 0-2. The Bears just got destroyed by the Buccaneers. While the entire team stunk it up, the biggest issue was QB Mike Glennon.
Glennon got a nice contract and was billed as QB that would play conservative and smart with some upside to make big plays. So far we haven’t anything close to that. He’s been tentative, slow with progressions, overly conservative, turning the ball over and not leading many scoring drives. Because of his play just about everyone not named John Fox and Dowell Loggains is pushing to see 2nd overall draft pick Mitch Trubisky inserted as the starter.
This week John Fox has been steadfast in his resolve to stick with Glennon.
The big question everyone asks: Why not play the talented rookie? Why not give him a chance?
Is there a Major Benefit in Sitting a Rookie QB?
We keep hearing about how the Bears want to develop Trubisky on the bench and wait until he’s ready. The Bears want to sit him this year and make sure he’s fully prepared.
At first, that sounds like a reasonable plan. However, it got me thinking. Is there really evidence that sitting a QB ensures long term success? Where does that belief come from?
I decided to investigate and take a look at QB’s drafted in the last 20 years and see how they developed based on games they started as rookies.
I looked at only 1st round QB’s and subjectively graded them on whether they had a good or bad career.
QB’s with 7 or less starts as a rookie that had good careers
Palmer, Rivers, Culpepper, Pennington, Rodgers, McNair, E. Manning, Alex Smith
QB’s with 7 or less starts as a rookie that had bad careers
While this isn’t the most scientific analysis, you can still see that there isn’t a high correlation between whether a QB has success by sitting vs. starting as a rookie. You can break up the numbers in a different ways and still won’t see any significant data that suggests a QB is better when they sit as a rookie.
The obvious shining examples of sitting a QB an entire rookie season are Rodgers, Rivers and Palmer. But Rodgers and Rivers learned behind hall of fame quality QB’s. Palmer sat behind Kitna who actually had a good season as a starter that year.
It would be nice if this worked for everyone but Losman, Campbell, Quinn, Russell and Locker sat their entire rookie years and it didn’t help.
Furthermore, the recent trend in the NFL has been to start rookies early. The last few rookies to start most of their first season have been Winston, Mariota, Carr and Wentz who appear to be having promising careers. Jared Goff is right on the edge with 7 starts last year and is looking good so far this season. I didn’t include them in my initial analysis because it’s too early to tell for sure.
Can Starting a Rookie QB Really Hurt Them?
I don’t have any facts to back it up but I don’t see any evidence to suggest this happens. David Carr got beat up early in his career, but even after developing, he was the exact same below average QB. He also had a tendency to go to the ground when he got pressured or run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage which counts as a sack.
It’s really hard for me to look at Carr, Leaf, Lienart, Weeden or Gabbert and think those guys would have been great if they just sat as rookies. I just don’t buy it. They simply ended up with way too many flaws that prevented them from being good QB’s.
I concede that I’m football junkie, I’m just a football fan. An NFL coach will have a better idea, but its very clear that plenty of NFL coaches don’t have a problem starting rookie QB’s. So there obviously isn’t a clear consensus among professionals.
Legitimate Concerns About Playing Mitch Trubisky
Any rookie QB is going to make mistakes and it’s likely that he won’t have a 100% full grasp of the offense. Most people are OK with that.
The bigger concern is the OL. You can look back on the 2nd half of the last game and see the Bears had 2 backups in when Sitton and Compton went out. If those guys remain out then you can make a case it might not be ideal to play him. However, if the Bears get Sitton and Long back soon, that issue should be resolved.
There’s also a lot of concern about the WR’s. Looking at the All 22 videos, I don’t see our WR’s having issues getting open. Glennon isn’t checking down because our WR’s are covered. He’s simply looking for quick completions in the short game. In other words, he’s giving his WR’s a chance to get open downfield. [NOTE: I think the author wants to say--isn't giving his WR's a chance to get open downfield.]
I don’t expect the WR’s to make our QB’s look good. But I think it’s a bit over the top to suggest that our WR’s will ruin the QB, no matter who it is.
It’s not like a QB will go from prolific to absolute garbage just because they lack Antonio Brown or Julio Jones. A really good group of WR’s will help a QB have a slightly higher average, slightly more TD’s and slightly lower INT%. But they certainly won’t make a mediocre QB great. Did Jeffery, Marshall and Bennett make Jay Cutler a great QB? No. Did Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb injuries in 2015 make Rodgers a bad QB? No.
Legitimate Benefits to Playing Mitch Trubisky
The more games a QB plays the faster they get to “comfortably developed” stage. If the Bears wait on Trubisky then thats just one more year before he gets enough experience that he can help the Bears compete. A QB can only learn so much on the bench.
Trubisky is athletically superior to Mike Glennon. So while he might not know 100% of the playbook, there are plays and formations that can be added to the game plan. Waggles, sprint outs, play action rollouts, scrambles. The way the Bears run outside zone, the play action rollouts alone will help keep the weak side pass rushers from making tackles in the running games as they will have to account for Trubisky on the rollout.
Ben Roethlisberger, who plays the Bears this weekend, shares an agent with Mitch Trubisky and worked out with him before the draft.
Big Ben knows what its like to be asked to perform as a young player and is one of the most successful young QB’s in NFL history who won a lot of games, including a super bowl in his 2nd season.
Roethlisberger had this to say about Trubisky:
“I got to watch some of his college tape. I was really impressed with the athleticism. The ease of throwing the ball. It just looked easy to him when he was on the run, when it wasn’t supposed to be super easy.”
So What Next?
I really hope the Bears take a deep look at the situation.
I suppose one more game for Glennon won’t hurt. Maybe, he just had a rough start. I don’t think so, but I guess for $17 million this year, they need to ceartain before they bench him.
Since none of know what Trubisky can do in practice, we have no choice but to trust the coaches and its possibly they want him to do a little better.
However, let’s also remember that they promoted him from 3rd to 2nd string, which means that he’s a lot more ready than anyone thought he would be. And this is the same coaching staff that took 5 weeks before they decided to start Jordan Howard last year who was clearly the best RB on the team.
And maybe – just maybe – Trubisky is actually good. Maybe Ben Roethlisberger good. Big Ben was a QB that was suppose to sit his rookie year, but when Tommy Maddux got hurt, he was inserted as a starter in week 3. He went 13-0 as a rookie.
Is it possible that this franchise could have one good thing happen with the QB position after such a terrible history ? Aren’t the Bears due for some good luck?
I'll add another opinion to the mix. It pretty much agrees with the above and with my assessment as well.
The video example Erik Lambert uses is perfect. Against the Bucs Glennon hones in on Sims whose triple covered and in Cutleresque fashion tries to fit a pass in where it doesn't belong completely ignoring a wide open Adam Shaheen. While Cutler might have a big enough arm to make that throw Glennon doesn't.
In the sequence with Trubisky the play is quite similar in that this time it's the TE Shaheen whose drawing triple coverage. Trubisky sees this and calmly throws over that coverage to his wide receiver whose open in a seam behind the short coverage and the deep safety. This play picks up a first down whereas Glennon's decision halted a drive and cost us seven points the other way. That at least a ten point turnover if not a 14 point turnover.
We could compare the two in almost the same way we can Howard vs Langford. Howard has excellent vision and aniticpation for a RB. Langford has neither yet when the 2016 season began Langford started while Howard sat. This is just one more example of just how poorly John Fox manages his personnel decisions. If you can't spot the superior talent and play that talent you shouldn't be coaching in the NFL period.
Chicago Bears: There is no wrong time to start Mitch Trubisky
Michael Berns September 22, 2017 Chicago Bears, NFC, NFC North, NFL 1
At this point in the early Chicago Bears season, there is no reasonable explanation why rookie Mitch Trubisky is not playing. The Bears organization — particularly head coach John Fox — are resolute in their decision to continue playing Mike Glennon.
In two days time the Bears will host the Pittsburgh Steelers, a team with an explosive, balanced offense. The Steelers have more talent than the Bears do at every position on offense. They arguably have the best wide receiver and running back in the NFL in Antonio Brown and Le’Veon Bell. This game has the chance to get out of hand with how anemic the Bears offense has been playing, especially with Glennon under center and a far-from-healthy Jordan Howard running the ball.
The key difference between Mike Glennon and Mitch Trubisky? Vision. The rookie sees the game better, faster and smarter than the veteran does.
Chicago Bears insider Erik Lambert breaks down a bit of film here, explaining the differences between what Glennon sees and what Trubisky sees when picking apart a defense.
Erik Lambert @eriklambert1 This video will show the vital difference that makes Mitch Trubisky a far superior QB to Mike Glennon. Namely? Vision. #Bears 3:52 PM - Sep 19, 2017
Yes Trubisky was going up against a second-team defense in the preseason game against the Tennessee Titans, but after four preseason games and after weeks of training camp in August it’s clear: Trubisky has the better feel for the game. He’s also much more athletic moving around the pocket too, so he’s able to buy time to find more options downfield.
A common counterargument is this:
If Mitch Trubisky plays against the Pittsburgh Steelers, you risk him losing his confidence against one of the top defenses in the league: Trubisky will get killed out there and he won’t come back the same.
The margin between good teams in the NFL and bad teams in the NFL is rail thin. It’s why there hasn’t been a back-to-back Super Bowl winner in over 10 years: The 2004 and 2005 New England Patriots. If the Steelers are too daunting of an opponent for Mitch Trubisky to play against and the Bears get blown out yet again, should Trubisky just play the following week against the Green Bay Packers at Lambeu Field? Is that too tough of a venue for the rookie? Or how about in Week 5 against the Minnesota Vikings, another team with a top defense?
There is a slippery slope here. Of course Trubisky will make his mistakes, go through growing pains and have several head-scratching moments. That’s okay and understandable because he’s learning and becoming wiser with each snap he takes. Mike Glennon has just two touchdown passes in 85 attempts this season. No one denies Mitch Trubisky is the future of the Bears franchise. It’s time to put the past in the past and begin a new of era of Chicago Bears football. It can’t get worse than it is right now.
Michael Berns is Editor in Chief of Endzonescore.com. He primarily covers the Chicago Bears and some other NFC North news. Contact him at Michael@outsidepitchsports.com or follow him on Twitter –@michaelberms.
Oh for Christ sake he's not made of glass. No one around here was crying about shit like this for the 8 years Cutler took his licks yet was called out as not being tough enough but you want to keep this precious little egg of a QB in his egg crate?
**** that. The kid is gonna take shots. This is the Bears he's playing for not the f'ing Pats. How long would you like to keep junior safe in his sideline playpen before you let him out? He needs to learn to take hits and recover too. That's part of being an NFL QB.