It wasn't all on the blocking, he missed a lot of holes that created that bad blocking.
Also like in the first 2 years he didn't have 1st down and 3rd down short yardage runs?
And also consider that in Howard's first 2 years the Bears O was A) awful and B) entirely one-dimensional. He was their only weapon. Seems strange that the "blocking" was so much better the 1st 2 years when every opponent knew to key on Howard.
He was used differently (i.e., misused) last year, and the blocking was poor. That's my take. If he plays the full season with the Eagles, I expect he will be over 1,000 yards again.
What are you guys expecting from Davis? Or this 5th round pick? We are in Super Bowl mode. We need guys who can produce NOW. Until proven otherwise, I worry that Davis+5th is going to be a big downgrade at the RB position.
And also consider that in Howard's first 2 years the Bears O was A) awful and B) entirely one-dimensional. He was their only weapon. Seems strange that the "blocking" was so much better the 1st 2 years when every opponent knew to key on Howard.
He was used differently (i.e., misused) last year, and the blocking was poor. That's my take. If he plays the full season with the Eagles, I expect he will be over 1,000 yards again.
What are you guys expecting from Davis? Or this 5th round pick? We are in Super Bowl mode. We need guys who can produce NOW. Until proven otherwise, I worry that Davis+5th is going to be a big downgrade at the RB position.
I think the only evaluation that will be relevant will be the overall effectiveness and productivity of the offense. If the offense improves and we can consistently maintain possession and/or score in short yardage situations (or other situations the require running the ball between the tackles) we will be just fine. Especially if it means that other areas of the offense improve.
He was used differently (i.e., misused) last year, and the blocking was poor. That's my take. If he plays the full season with the Eagles, I expect he will be over 1,000 yards again.
What are you guys expecting from Davis? Or this 5th round pick? We are in Super Bowl mode. We need guys who can produce NOW. Until proven otherwise, I worry that Davis+5th is going to be a big downgrade at the RB position.
I think the only evaluation that will be relevant will be the overall effectiveness and productivity of the offense. If the offense improves and we can consistently maintain possession and/or score in short yardage situations (or other situations the require running the ball between the tackles) we will be just fine. Especially if it means that other areas of the offense improve.
Just my $0.02
The offense can improve just by the fact that our young players (esp. Trubisky) are getting more experience in NFL and with playing together in the system. That is not the way to evaluate this trade. The question remains what Davis+5th are going to CONTRIBUTE to the improvement. Curious that nobody seems to venture an opinion on that question, even though all you guys applaud the trade.
I think the only evaluation that will be relevant will be the overall effectiveness and productivity of the offense. If the offense improves and we can consistently maintain possession and/or score in short yardage situations (or other situations the require running the ball between the tackles) we will be just fine. Especially if it means that other areas of the offense improve.
Just my $0.02
The offense can improve just by the fact that our young players (esp. Trubisky) are getting more experience in NFL and with playing together in the system. That is not the way to evaluate this trade. The question remains what Davis+5th are going to CONTRIBUTE to the improvement. Curious that nobody seems to venture an opinion on that question, even though all you guys applaud the trade.
You are aware of where they got Howard in the draft right? Same w/Amos, Jackson, Callaghan, Leno? Pace has shown he can get value out of the 3rd day picks, AND udfa. As for Davis, remember that Hicks was an uknown quantity when he came here, and Most people hated Massie, who has done well enough. People laughed at the idea of Prince. Pace has had hits and misses in both, but he just built a winning team after scrapping all the garbage, feel free to give the guy some space.
btw you keep saying the blocking was poor, but it wasn't poor for the other rb's; why was that? Fact is if you'd watched any of the video's breaking down Howards game you would realize that Howard was missing a lot of open holes and creating a lot of the issues himself. It's why the O worked BETTER w/out Howard in it.
What do I expect, I expect the O to run better then it did last year(if key players remain healthy). I expect the O to continue to score 24-30 ppg and continue to win; unlike when the Bears primary RB/point of emphasis was Howard.
The offense can improve just by the fact that our young players (esp. Trubisky) are getting more experience in NFL and with playing together in the system. That is not the way to evaluate this trade. The question remains what Davis+5th are going to CONTRIBUTE to the improvement. Curious that nobody seems to venture an opinion on that question, even though all you guys applaud the trade.
You are aware of where they got Howard in the draft right? Same w/Amos, Jackson, Callaghan, Leno? Pace has shown he can get value out of the 3rd day picks, AND udfa. As for Davis, remember that Hicks was an uknown quantity when he came here, and Most people hated Massie, who has done well enough. People laughed at the idea of Prince. Pace has had hits and misses in both, but he just built a winning team after scrapping all the garbage, feel free to give the guy some space.
btw you keep saying the blocking was poor, but it wasn't poor for the other rb's; why was that? Fact is if you'd watched any of the video's breaking down Howards game you would realize that Howard was missing a lot of open holes and creating a lot of the issues himself. It's why the O worked BETTER w/out Howard in it.
What do I expect, I expect the O to run better then it did last year(if key players remain healthy). I expect the O to continue to score 24-30 ppg and continue to win; unlike when the Bears primary RB/point of emphasis was Howard.
+1 You bring up a great point, Ric. I am impressed by our present GM & scouting department to hit on solid talent in later rounds of the draft.
I am amazed by the number of high-priced FA each year are guys drafted on the 3rd day, or were UDFA kids. It is pretty common, and not something rare. Same thing with the Pro Bowl players. Sure, there are many high draft pick guys in there too, but I am amazed by how many were NOT first round draft picks.
We have all seen the stats indicating how a 1st round pick has a better statistical chance of being solid in the NFL. No question of that being true. But it's not like the draft is over after the 1st round each year.There is a GOLD MINE of talent to be drafted EVERY year - if the team doing the drafting has a high batting average of identifying these guys. Pace & our present scouting department seems to be really good at it. Probably the best I've seen in many years from the Bears. Also, I feel like the team has the coaching staff in place now to properly develop young talent. That certainly has not been the case in some past years here. For some positions, the Bears were totally inept developing young guys who came here.
The offense can improve just by the fact that our young players (esp. Trubisky) are getting more experience in NFL and with playing together in the system. That is not the way to evaluate this trade. The question remains what Davis+5th are going to CONTRIBUTE to the improvement. Curious that nobody seems to venture an opinion on that question, even though all you guys applaud the trade.
You are aware of where they got Howard in the draft right? Same w/Amos, Jackson, Callaghan, Leno? Pace has shown he can get value out of the 3rd day picks, AND udfa. As for Davis, remember that Hicks was an uknown quantity when he came here, and Most people hated Massie, who has done well enough. People laughed at the idea of Prince. Pace has had hits and misses in both, but he just built a winning team after scrapping all the garbage, feel free to give the guy some space.
btw you keep saying the blocking was poor, but it wasn't poor for the other rb's; why was that? Fact is if you'd watched any of the video's breaking down Howards game you would realize that Howard was missing a lot of open holes and creating a lot of the issues himself. It's why the O worked BETTER w/out Howard in it.
What do I expect, I expect the O to run better then it did last year(if key players remain healthy). I expect the O to continue to score 24-30 ppg and continue to win; unlike when the Bears primary RB/point of emphasis was Howard.
Yes, it is possible that this trade could turn out fabulously. It is also possible that this trade leaves a hole at the RB position that Davis+5th can't really fill. We can both write here for a month, and we still won't know the answers until the season unfolds. Let's just say that I am not optimistic about what will become the trade results. As for Howard, for every example of him missing a hole last season, I could show you 6 where he was surrounded by tacklers with absolutely nowhere to run. The blocking was generally lousy, plus the play-calling was not favorable to his running style.
people are answering the question, you just don't like the answer. For the OFF to run better, there doesn't need to be a corresponding increase in the rushing game. Don't just look at the running game in a vacuum. If the rushing production goes down but the OFF preforms better (by whatever metric we want to use), the trade was a good one.
Maybe Howard's production (900 yards just to make the math simpler) gets split between Davis-Cohen-Rookie and Mitch's running/passing yardage. If Davis gets 400 yards, the rookie gets 200, Cohen adds 100 and 200 goes between Mitch's passing and running what's the problem? That one guy didn't get the total 900?
If The rushing totals are Davis 400, Cohen 544 (his 444 from last year + 100), the rookie gets 200, and Mitch goes to 500 rushing and 4000 passing what's the problem?
I think the assumption is that Howard's 900+ yards are just going to disappear. They aren't, I'm just expecting them to be spread out.
And just like Meredith I'll be waiting for the doom and gloomers to post their #Imissedit.
You are aware of where they got Howard in the draft right? Same w/Amos, Jackson, Callaghan, Leno? Pace has shown he can get value out of the 3rd day picks, AND udfa. As for Davis, remember that Hicks was an uknown quantity when he came here, and Most people hated Massie, who has done well enough. People laughed at the idea of Prince. Pace has had hits and misses in both, but he just built a winning team after scrapping all the garbage, feel free to give the guy some space.
btw you keep saying the blocking was poor, but it wasn't poor for the other rb's; why was that? Fact is if you'd watched any of the video's breaking down Howards game you would realize that Howard was missing a lot of open holes and creating a lot of the issues himself. It's why the O worked BETTER w/out Howard in it.
What do I expect, I expect the O to run better then it did last year(if key players remain healthy). I expect the O to continue to score 24-30 ppg and continue to win; unlike when the Bears primary RB/point of emphasis was Howard.
Yes, it is possible that this trade could turn out fabulously. It is also possible that this trade leaves a hole at the RB position that Davis+5th can't really fill. We can both write here for a month, and we still won't know the answers until the season unfolds. Let's just say that I am not optimistic about what will become the trade results. As for Howard, for every example of him missing a hole last season, I could show you 6 where he was surrounded by tacklers with absolutely nowhere to run. The blocking was generally lousy, plus the play-calling was not favorable to his running style.
What makes you think they won't/weren't planning on using a pick this year on a RB that fills the hole? What if Davis replaces Benny Cunningham and the draft pick this year replaces Howard? Team isn't set yet, it's silly to assume what it's going to look like going forward.
I think the only evaluation that will be relevant will be the overall effectiveness and productivity of the offense. If the offense improves and we can consistently maintain possession and/or score in short yardage situations (or other situations the require running the ball between the tackles) we will be just fine. Especially if it means that other areas of the offense improve.
Just my $0.02
The offense can improve just by the fact that our young players (esp. Trubisky) are getting more experience in NFL and with playing together in the system. That is not the way to evaluate this trade. The question remains what Davis+5th are going to CONTRIBUTE to the improvement. Curious that nobody seems to venture an opinion on that question, even though all you guys applaud the trade.
Actually it is the way to evaluate the trade. As long as we improve as a team and go deeper in the playoffs, we are better. To do that we will need to be able to run effectively in certain situations. As long as we can do that, we are getting what we need from the running game. If we do not, then there is an issue. But we have no idea what Nagy's eventual plans of the offense are. So if we do not have a back who gets 1000+ yards of offense a season is that a bad, or is it totally irrelevant?
All any of us can do is to hope the front office and coaching staff are making the right decisions and hope for the best. I am willing to trust Nagy and Pace because they have made huge strides on how the team has played. If that continues, we will all be happy. If things so bad then there will be plenty to bitch about.
people are answering the question, you just don't like the answer. For the OFF to run better, there doesn't need to be a corresponding increase in the rushing game. Don't just look at the running game in a vacuum. If the rushing production goes down but the OFF preforms better (by whatever metric we want to use), the trade was a good one.
Maybe Howard's production (900 yards just to make the math simpler) gets split between Davis-Cohen-Rookie and Mitch's running/passing yardage. If Davis gets 400 yards, the rookie gets 200, Cohen adds 100 and 200 goes between Mitch's passing and running what's the problem? That one guy didn't get the total 900?
If The rushing totals are Davis 400, Cohen 544 (his 444 from last year + 100), the rookie gets 200, and Mitch goes to 500 rushing and 4000 passing what's the problem?
I think the assumption is that Howard's 900+ yards are just going to disappear. They aren't, I'm just expecting them to be spread out.
And just like Meredith I'll be waiting for the doom and gloomers to post their #Imissedit.
That's what i don't get, we went through all this last year w/Meredith. People don't learn. I get that in the beggining a young gm w/a shit roster made some moves that didn't instantly turn the team around. But he has shown growth every year in both the draft and FA. He also hired a coach that helped this Offense look the best it had in a very long time. I cannot remember an O that averaged 26 ppg. Actually it only happened twice since 05, once in 06(that was mostly st's and def). The other was in 13 the first year under Trestman. So 2 times in 14 years, and one was more b/c of Def and St's, so really 1x in the last 6, under the last O minded HC. And this one came w/more winning, I'm willing to give Pace/Nagy 2-3 more years to see what happens.