That's it in a nutshell MP and it's all it's ever been all along. We just happened to need a vet QB when he was about the best of who was out there to be had. I still believe we could have saved a lot of money by re-signing Hoyer to do just what Glennon is getting paid about 3x as much to do. But then, it's not my money or I would be pissed. LOL
I agree and see that NOW.
I freely admit, not knowing much about Glennon or following Tampa, that back when he was first signed I was snookered into believing the company line about him--namely that he didn't get a fair test 2-3 years ago on a terrible team and had starting caliber potential talent. I now have come to realize (as I stated in another thread) that Glennon is/was really nothing more than a high priced decoy to throw the rest of the league off the trail as far as Pace going after a QB early in the 1st round.
In that, he was a success (as a decoy). But as far as the "possible starter" stuff, he's clearly a fail there. Maybe Pace knew he sucked all along and just lied to maintain the decoy. Maybe they truly thought he was gonna be much better and were caught with their pants down after those two terrible PS games and his limitations being clearly put on display vs. Atlanta. I don't know.
But it as it stands now, I agree we could have gotten the same level of QB-playmaking ability from Brian Hoyer and banked a lot more cap savings for next year.
That's quite possibly true but then he also knew that Fox would have a coronary if he was forced to play a rookie. I'll grant that Glennon's size and arm strength give him an advantage over Hoyer but in this offense it doesn't look like arm strength will make much difference and that aside he's not all that accurate downfield anyway.
Maybe the more puzzling thing was why Pace offered him as much as he did when TB was only willing to offer $8 mil for one year. We can forget about the $45 mil because he's never gonna see that but what he will see is $18.5 mil for one years work. There's no way he's gonna get $15 mil in 2018 as the #2 so either we trade him if we can, cut him and eat the rest of his $4.5 mil guarantee, or Pace gets him to accept something far less than $15 mil to stick around as the #2.
That last option I wouldn't mind so much if we can't do better but I'm not sure we can't. With as many top QBs ranked to go high next year that tells me some others are gonna be looking for work.
While most experts have said the 28-year old was “fine” in the game, the fact is he was everything people expected. He protected the ball but he led a bland, boring passing offense that produced zero big plays.
I don't get why so many people are so reluctant to start Mitchell and so adamant about defending Glennon and wanting to see him remain starting. Our Oline is solid so it's not like there is a higher risk than normal of Mitchell getting injured because of constant pressure. Will he struggle some, of course he will he's a rookie, but he will also show flashes of awesomeness and give us something to be excited about in looking forward to the future. He'll throw the damn ball further than 10 yards down the field (something we won't see Glennon do) because he wants to keep the ball moving and put up points. All rookies struggle in the beginning as we all know there is a huge learning curve when going from college to the NFL. They put in the time and overcome those growing pains - some still struggle and never make it, so go on to be average, and few go on to be great. Why are we delaying this process with our prized QB? Get him in there so he can grow with the game sooner than later and let's see what kind of QB we got. I'm ready to start this ride baby!!!!!!!!!!
I can tell you my reasoning: I just believe having Trubs played so few games in college, he needs some time to adjust his body and mind to NFL, learn the playbook and just observe for a few weeks. Then in maybe 4th week I would give him a few drives per half. If it goes well, after the bye hes our starter
I don't get why so many people are so reluctant to start Mitchell and so adamant about defending Glennon and wanting to see him remain starting. Our Oline is solid so it's not like there is a higher risk than normal of Mitchell getting injured because of constant pressure. Will he struggle some, of course he will he's a rookie, but he will also show flashes of awesomeness and give us something to be excited about in looking forward to the future. He'll throw the damn ball further than 10 yards down the field (something we won't see Glennon do) because he wants to keep the ball moving and put up points. All rookies struggle in the beginning as we all know there is a huge learning curve when going from college to the NFL. They put in the time and overcome those growing pains - some still struggle and never make it, so go on to be average, and few go on to be great. Why are we delaying this process with our prized QB? Get him in there so he can grow with the game sooner than later and let's see what kind of QB we got. I'm ready to start this ride baby!!!!!!!!!!
I can tell you my reasoning: I just believe having Trubs played so few games in college, he needs some time to adjust his body and mind to NFL, learn the playbook and just observe for a few weeks. Then in maybe 4th week I would give him a few drives per half. If it goes well, after the bye hes our starter
The Bears run, I know most won't agree, but a very complex O where the QB and WR will change reads/routes at the line based on Def's set ups. Go watch the brett kollmann breakdown of Balt vs Cincy, Balt is baiting Dalton into throws, and sometimes technically good decisions are wrong b/c of great def plays. Now go watch Hou vs Cincy, Watson(also super athletic) is getting baited constantly by the Bengals, and he's still hit 4 tims for all his mobility.
My guess is the earliest Trubs starts is when the schedule gets a lot weaker and he has a full understanding of the playbook and how nfl def's work. That's mostly film study. The kid is talent ready but his head isn't; let that catch up and he'll be fine.
I can tell you my reasoning: I just believe having Trubs played so few games in college, he needs some time to adjust his body and mind to NFL, learn the playbook and just observe for a few weeks. Then in maybe 4th week I would give him a few drives per half. If it goes well, after the bye hes our starter
The Bears run, I know most won't agree, but a very complex O where the QB and WR will change reads/routes at the line based on Def's set ups. Go watch the brett kollmann breakdown of Balt vs Cincy, Balt is baiting Dalton into throws, and sometimes technically good decisions are wrong b/c of great def plays. Now go watch Hou vs Cincy, Watson(also super athletic) is getting baited constantly by the Bengals, and he's still hit 4 tims for all his mobility.
My guess is the earliest Trubs starts is when the schedule gets a lot weaker and he has a full understanding of the playbook and how nfl def's work. That's mostly film study. The kid is talent ready but his head isn't; let that catch up and he'll be fine.
Exactly, I believe PS game 3 showed hes mentally still not ready... Needs a little more time
I can tell you my reasoning: I just believe having Trubs played so few games in college, he needs some time to adjust his body and mind to NFL, learn the playbook and just observe for a few weeks. Then in maybe 4th week I would give him a few drives per half. If it goes well, after the bye hes our starter
The Bears run, I know most won't agree, but a very complex O where the QB and WR will change reads/routes at the line based on Def's set ups. Go watch the brett kollmann breakdown of Balt vs Cincy, Balt is baiting Dalton into throws, and sometimes technically good decisions are wrong b/c of great def plays. Now go watch Hou vs Cincy, Watson(also super athletic) is getting baited constantly by the Bengals, and he's still hit 4 tims for all his mobility.
My guess is the earliest Trubs starts is when the schedule gets a lot weaker and he has a full understanding of the playbook and how nfl def's work. That's mostly film study. The kid is talent ready but his head isn't; let that catch up and he'll be fine.
Everything on most NFL offenses is based off zone reads. From the line calls by the OC, to QB audibles, to how OL blocking assignments change during running plays, to how receivers and QBs adjust how routes are run and where to throw the ball as the play develops. It is all very complex. And the QB is the conductor of the orchestra and needs to understand all of it.
I have no idea when Trubsiky starts to play. But IMO it's a good thing he is not starting now.
While most experts have said the 28-year old was “fine” in the game, the fact is he was everything people expected. He protected the ball but he led a bland, boring passing offense that produced zero big plays.
I don't get why so many people are so reluctant to start Mitchell and so adamant about defending Glennon and wanting to see him remain starting. Our Oline is solid so it's not like there is a higher risk than normal of Mitchell getting injured because of constant pressure. Will he struggle some, of course he will he's a rookie, but he will also show flashes of awesomeness and give us something to be excited about in looking forward to the future. He'll throw the damn ball further than 10 yards down the field (something we won't see Glennon do) because he wants to keep the ball moving and put up points. All rookies struggle in the beginning as we all know there is a huge learning curve when going from college to the NFL. They put in the time and overcome those growing pains - some still struggle and never make it, so go on to be average, and few go on to be great. Why are we delaying this process with our prized QB? Get him in there so he can grow with the game sooner than later and let's see what kind of QB we got. I'm ready to start this ride baby!!!!!!!!!!
I think...
A) the Bears want to "get something" for the money they spent on Glennon. They are probably just now realizing belatedly that Tampa actually benched him for good reason and we could have got the same abilities from Brian Hoyer for less money.
B) Pace may be holding out some forlorn hope that if Glennon has a few good games he can get a draft pick for him next year. I gave up on that watching in person at SF on Sunday.
C) there's a fear of a rookie QB being "Carr'd". I don't think that's a legit concern since the Bears actually have a pretty good OL and excellent running game. Way better than Cleveland and Houston who are also starting their rookies.
D) they want to buy him time to learn more of the playbook and get some muscle memory with playing under center since he didn't do that in college.
In my mind, the only factor that holds any water is "D".
I freely admit, not knowing much about Glennon or following Tampa, that back when he was first signed I was snookered into believing the company line about him--namely that he didn't get a fair test 2-3 years ago on a terrible team and had starting caliber potential talent. I now have come to realize (as I stated in another thread) that Glennon is/was really nothing more than a high priced decoy to throw the rest of the league off the trail as far as Pace going after a QB early in the 1st round.
In that, he was a success (as a decoy). But as far as the "possible starter" stuff, he's clearly a fail there. Maybe Pace knew he sucked all along and just lied to maintain the decoy. Maybe they truly thought he was gonna be much better and were caught with their pants down after those two terrible PS games and his limitations being clearly put on display vs. Atlanta. I don't know.
But it as it stands now, I agree we could have gotten the same level of QB-playmaking ability from Brian Hoyer and banked a lot more cap savings for next year.
That's quite possibly true but then he also knew that Fox would have a coronary if he was forced to play a rookie. I'll grant that Glennon's size and arm strength give him an advantage over Hoyer but in this offense it doesn't look like arm strength will make much difference and that aside he's not all that accurate downfield anyway.
Maybe the more puzzling thing was why Pace offered him as much as he did when TB was only willing to offer $8 mil for one year. We can forget about the $45 mil because he's never gonna see that but what he will see is $18.5 mil for one years work. There's no way he's gonna get $15 mil in 2018 as the #2 so either we trade him if we can, cut him and eat the rest of his $4.5 mil guarantee, or Pace gets him to accept something far less than $15 mil to stick around as the #2.
That last option I wouldn't mind so much if we can't do better but I'm not sure we can't. With as many top QBs ranked to go high next year that tells me some others are gonna be looking for work.
I wonder, when you get to Glennon's and Osweiler's size as a QB, if it doesn't start to be a DISadvantage rather than a plus. It seems like both of those guys are awkward and non-agile in the pocket and both have big. slow windups and deliveries. They also both have serious accuracy issues in doing the little stuff--hitting the receiver in stride, getting the ball to the correct shoulder, etc.
That's the biggest reason why I was pounding the table for Trubisky here pre-draft. Accuracy (and I mean more than just completion % but also fine-tune accuracy) is huge and Mitchell has it. Lack of accuracy is highly correlated to failure in the NFL and it rarely is something that can be improved with a conditioning program or "coached up" like other facets of QB play.
I'm over the Glennon experiment. It was wasted money but fine I get that they wanted a younger guy than Hoyer who might have some serious upside. They took a shot and missed the mark. As I said earlier, Sunday was pretty much PEAK GLENNON. He isn't going to suddenly or gradually get much better. He can manage a game with a bland low-scoring offense and lose respectably. He can probably beat some teams if the defense or STs makes a few big plays (the type he's not capable of). But that's it. Even if you think this season is pre-destined to be nothing more than 6-10 anyway, let's get Trubisky in there to make his rookie mistakes and gain some experience so we aren't in this same boat next September when we better be making a playoff run.
I can tell you my reasoning: I just believe having Trubs played so few games in college, he needs some time to adjust his body and mind to NFL, learn the playbook and just observe for a few weeks. Then in maybe 4th week I would give him a few drives per half. If it goes well, after the bye hes our starter
The Bears run, I know most won't agree, but a very complex O where the QB and WR will change reads/routes at the line based on Def's set ups. Go watch the brett kollmann breakdown of Balt vs Cincy, Balt is baiting Dalton into throws, and sometimes technically good decisions are wrong b/c of great def plays. Now go watch Hou vs Cincy, Watson(also super athletic) is getting baited constantly by the Bengals, and he's still hit 4 tims for all his mobility.
My guess is the earliest Trubs starts is when the schedule gets a lot weaker and he has a full understanding of the playbook and how nfl def's work. That's mostly film study. The kid is talent ready but his head isn't; let that catch up and he'll be fine.
Ric, Houston's OL is absolutely terrible. It's literally as bad as the Bears was in the days of Omiyale and Webb. Even with all that, Watson (a guy I'm not praising and I don't think will become a long term franchise starter) got them a win that Savage almost certainly wouldn't have.
Post by brasilbear on Sept 16, 2017 8:18:00 GMT -6
In a theringer.com article about developing QBs, both Rogers and Rives said sitting for awhile helped them learn how to be a QB (running a huddle, learning how to study film, etc) but there comes a point (for Rivers it was 1/2 way through his rookie year) where both felt their development had slowed. Without meaningful reps and live game action there is no way to actually develop as a professional QB.