They were fired together yes. And the HC was Trestman.
Again, I'm trying to be realistic here. There was an open locker room rebellion, the QB was benched, and the OC was actively badmouthing players to the press. There also wasn't a newly drafted QB attached to the GM. Think the circumstances were different.
I think it is highly unlikely Poles is in any danger yet.
Emery was different, but not Graves.
Wannstedt was doing 9-7 seasons and apparently that wasn’t good enough for McCaskey. Why would 7 wins work for Poles when 9 didn’t work for Graves? This may be too soon, but if we’re still 3rd or 4th in the division in 2025, that is year-4. Is this going to be like Ryan Pace who got 7 years?
Would you have fired Pace one year after drafting Trubisky? Remember no one knew at that point about Mahomes, he only played one game that year.
I doubt it. If you're gonna entrust a high-1st round QB pick to the GM then you're give him 3-4 years to see it through.
Poles drafted CW. He isn't gonna be fired only one season into the Williams era and it would be stupid to do so. Then you would be pairing a new GM to a QB pick he didn't draft and isn't tied to. They did that to Fields and, although I don't think Fields was ever gonna be a franchise QB, it wasn't exactly fair to him to shift regimes just as he's getting his feet wet.
And what is your basis for believing that Warren would hire a much better GM?
What evidence do you have to believe that?
All Warren has done here is go off on some lakefront stadium pipe dream tangent. What exactly makes you believe he can evaluate new GM candidates?
Wannstedt was doing 9-7 seasons and apparently that wasn’t good enough for McCaskey. Why would 7 wins work for Poles when 9 didn’t work for Graves? This may be too soon, but if we’re still 3rd or 4th in the division in 2025, that is year-4. Is this going to be like Ryan Pace who got 7 years?
Would you have fired Pace one year after drafting Trubisky? Remember no one knew at that point about Mahomes, he only played one game that year.
I doubt it. If you're gonna entrust a high-1st round QB pick to the GM then you're give him 3-4 years to see it through.
Poles drafted CW. He isn't gonna be fired only one season into the Williams era and it would be stupid to do so. Then you would be pairing a new GM to a QB pick he didn't draft and isn't tied to. They did that to Fields and, although I don't think Fields was ever gonna be a franchise QB, it wasn't exactly fair to him to shift regimes just as he's getting his feet wet.
And what is your basis for believing that Warren would hire a much better GM?
What evidence do you have to believe that?
All Warren has done here is go off on some lakefront stadium pipe dream tangent. What exactly makes you believe he can evaluate new GM candidates?
It is less a vote for Warren as a vote of no confidence in Poles. His free agency acquisitions have been mostly unimpressive or outright failures (too many to list). Same for draft picks. It will someday go on his tombstone that he picked Wright over Carter, but that’s a well-beaten dead horse around here. Mack, Smith, Monty all gone because of Poles.
It is yet to be determined whether Stroud and Daniels are better QBs than Williams. Check back in a couple years.
Would you have fired Pace one year after drafting Trubisky? Remember no one knew at that point about Mahomes, he only played one game that year.
I doubt it. If you're gonna entrust a high-1st round QB pick to the GM then you're give him 3-4 years to see it through.
Poles drafted CW. He isn't gonna be fired only one season into the Williams era and it would be stupid to do so. Then you would be pairing a new GM to a QB pick he didn't draft and isn't tied to. They did that to Fields and, although I don't think Fields was ever gonna be a franchise QB, it wasn't exactly fair to him to shift regimes just as he's getting his feet wet.
And what is your basis for believing that Warren would hire a much better GM?
What evidence do you have to believe that?
All Warren has done here is go off on some lakefront stadium pipe dream tangent. What exactly makes you believe he can evaluate new GM candidates?
It is less a vote for Warren as a vote of no confidence in Poles. His free agency acquisitions have been mostly unimpressive or outright failures (too many to list). Same for draft picks. It will someday go on his tombstone that he picked Wright over Carter, but that’s a well-beaten dead horse around here. Mack, Smith, Monty all gone because of Poles.
It is yet to be determined whether Stroud and Daniels are better QBs than Williams. Check back in a couple years.
You just made my point. Ultimately that's what this comes down to, isn't it. If he got an elite franchise QB, then lots of mistakes are forgiven. Won't know that for a few years.
If CW ends up being clearly inferior to Stroud and Daniels, then I agree he should be canned. Too soon to know.
I'm not sure that you should. The only glimmer of hope I have is IF Poles was given a choice of a few coaches and he had to pick one. That has almost become urban legend. I read that and I also remember reading that he had his choice of whatever he wanted. Both could be true. Management had gone through and vetted three guys and they may have said something like "hey we went through an extensive process and narrowed it down to these three that look really good but you can do whatever you want". Being new and wanting to be on the good side of his new owners, being short on time and thinking, hey.... they did all the work for me. I can take advantage of that and if the guy is a dud, they can't blame me too much.
It is hard to really know the true story, but my point is that if Flus was not really his true choice, maybe we stand a chance. But then I go back to his retaining Flus when he could have had Harbaugh and I lose faith again. Bottom line is we have no idea how this is going to pan out. All we know for sure is that the HC hiring record has been dismal.
Not just Flus. Doesn’t Poles have a say on the crappy other coaches that have come in?
No, I actually think that is strictly the choice of the HC. At least that is what I have heard (read)
It is less a vote for Warren as a vote of no confidence in Poles. His free agency acquisitions have been mostly unimpressive or outright failures (too many to list). Same for draft picks. It will someday go on his tombstone that he picked Wright over Carter, but that’s a well-beaten dead horse around here. Mack, Smith, Monty all gone because of Poles.
It is yet to be determined whether Stroud and Daniels are better QBs than Williams. Check back in a couple years.
You just made my point. Ultimately that's what this comes down to, isn't it. If he got an elite franchise QB, then lots of mistakes are forgiven. Won't know that for a few years.
If CW ends up being clearly inferior to Stroud and Daniels, then I agree he should be canned. Too soon to know.
That’s your point, not mine. I think he should be fired for everything else I listed, and Williams is just the tip of an iceberg if Stroud and Daniels are better than Williams.
They are out-playing him by a mile but we won’t know til next year whether the 2024 extenuating circumstances alone account for 24 drives without a TD.
You just made my point. Ultimately that's what this comes down to, isn't it. If he got an elite franchise QB, then lots of mistakes are forgiven. Won't know that for a few years.
If CW ends up being clearly inferior to Stroud and Daniels, then I agree he should be canned. Too soon to know.
That’s your point, not mine. I think he should be fired for everything else I listed, and Williams is just the tip of an iceberg if Stroud and Daniels are better than Williams.
They are out-playing him by a mile but we won’t know til next year whether the 2024 extenuating circumstances alone account for 24 drives without a TD.
Ok, whatever. I've been through the reasons why this isn't gonna happen and is a bad idea anyway.
That’s your point, not mine. I think he should be fired for everything else I listed, and Williams is just the tip of an iceberg if Stroud and Daniels are better than Williams.
They are out-playing him by a mile but we won’t know til next year whether the 2024 extenuating circumstances alone account for 24 drives without a TD.
Ok, whatever. I've been through the reasons why this isn't gonna happen and is a bad idea anyway.
But die on that hill if you want.
You have your hill, too. 2025 is going to be the decisive year for Poles. If we are around .500 and 3rd or 4th again in the division, he SHOULD be fired if McCaskey/Warren are true to their own professed standards.
The Lions were 3-13-1 in 2021 — as bad or worse than the 2021 Bears team that won 7 games.
Since then, Lions, Packers, Texans have kicked his ass even with his supremely lucky #1 picks two years in a row.