Vic Fangio doubles down on return to Bears

butkus3595
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Vic Fangio doubles down on return to Bears Jan 1, 2017 8:12:32 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Jan 1, 2017 8:12:32 GMT -6

Dec 31, 2016 14:07:49 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Dec 31, 2016 13:10:11 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

So losing key players is important then? Color me confused now...I thought ya just coach up who ya got...injuries don't matter, players leaving doesn't matter, suspensions don't matter, talent level doesn't matter....those are all just excuses. But now apparently it appears thats not the case. Huh?!

You know whats also funny...those two coordinators...ya know...the one's who call the plays, who couldn't get it done in Denver...cause they did such a bad job coaching...where are those two guys right now? I wonder?

I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand...yes...we added talent....BUT WHERE WAS THAT TALENT?

On the freakin IR!!!!! You can't win games when the talent you added isn't on the field!!!! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Lastly...Matt Barkley never threw 1 regular season pass in the NFL prior to coming here and was sitting on his couch in September watching games like you and me.

We have maybe a half dozen or so key players on IR. The rest are either backup level or not even guys who would have still been on the team. It's isn't and never has been 19 top starters.

Where we differ is not on talent period but where you want to over promote the lack of talent vs reality I see. I don't see as much lack of talent as you do. I see far more lack of consistency and discipline even 15 games into a 16 game season. If it wasn't for the fact that this issue also followed Fox here from Denver I probably wouldn't be as sensitive to it as I am. But it is what happened out here as well and a major portion of the reason he was let go.

Is that just another coincidence on top of being fired in Carolina after going 2-14 and for favoring building around Jimmy Clausen vs drafting Cam Newton? I'll grant you that coaches lose games due to injuries but here's HC with both a 2-14 and a 3-13 season on his record mixed with two SB appearances and the rest mostly .500 seasons. I would submit to you that really good coaches don't have even one disaster season on their coaching record let alone two and they normally are one of the best HCs in a teams history not the second worst.

How can I say it any differently than his record speaks for itself.....and me.

I've gone through the list of guys on IR and already shown how more than half were either starters or major contributors to this team, so while you and others want to float this narrative that most of them were not important the FACTS dispute that. Either way I'm still waiting for someone in the "Fire Fox" camp to show me the over flowing list of coaches who win the majority of their games with 4th string QB's and a secondary that starts guys who were claimed after being cut from one team and were undrafted free agents prior to that! Please...I'd love to see the list! Does anyone have it?

Again...only two active coaches who have been at it as long as Fox has have a better winning percentage...and one of them is Bill Belichick.

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Vic Fangio doubles down on return to Bears Jan 1, 2017 10:00:17 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 10:00:17 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2017 8:12:32 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Dec 31, 2016 14:07:49 GMT -6 @soulman said:

We have maybe a half dozen or so key players on IR. The rest are either backup level or not even guys who would have still been on the team. It's isn't and never has been 19 top starters.

Where we differ is not on talent period but where you want to over promote the lack of talent vs reality I see. I don't see as much lack of talent as you do. I see far more lack of consistency and discipline even 15 games into a 16 game season. If it wasn't for the fact that this issue also followed Fox here from Denver I probably wouldn't be as sensitive to it as I am. But it is what happened out here as well and a major portion of the reason he was let go.

Is that just another coincidence on top of being fired in Carolina after going 2-14 and for favoring building around Jimmy Clausen vs drafting Cam Newton? I'll grant you that coaches lose games due to injuries but here's HC with both a 2-14 and a 3-13 season on his record mixed with two SB appearances and the rest mostly .500 seasons. I would submit to you that really good coaches don't have even one disaster season on their coaching record let alone two and they normally are one of the best HCs in a teams history not the second worst.

How can I say it any differently than his record speaks for itself.....and me.

I've gone through the list of guys on IR and already shown how more than half were either starters or major contributors to this team, so while you and others want to float this narrative that most of them were not important the FACTS dispute that. Either way I'm still waiting for someone in the "Fire Fox" camp to show me the over flowing list of coaches who win the majority of their games with 4th string QB's and a secondary that starts guys who were claimed after being cut from one team and were undrafted free agents prior to that! Please...I'd love to see the list! Does anyone have it?

Again...only two active coaches who have been at it as long as Fox has have a better winning percentage...and one of them is Bill Belichick.

He couldn't win with Cutler early because the blocking stunk, we couldn't make any in game adjustments, and we had no running attack because he and Loggains weren't playing Howard ahead of Langford. In addition White played ahead of Meredith. This was before all the injuries. These were a combination of coaching decisions and a lack of preparation that was obvious in the 3rd preseason game and never improved.

After that game Fox said "we have a lot of work to do" and then said the same thing after the most recent Packer game. I assumed he meant a lot of work to do THIS YEAR didn't you? In any event it never got done.

Then he had Hoyer at QB whom he seemed to prefer and the results were no different. So that's his #1 and #2 QBs and how many games did we win? Hell, how many points were we even scoring? At the very least he has no idea what he's doing on that side of the ball so it looks like we've just gone from Lovie to Trestman to Lovie v2.0. Barkley actually ended up being the #3 but that's neither here nor there and even if there are 8 or 9 or even 10 starters on IR they haven't all been on IR for 16 games.

So IMHO injuries are an inflated excuse and neither Fox or Fangio whose defense has suffered even more key losses are using that excuse because it won't fly when your team is THIS bad. Those may have legitimately cost us a couple of games when we lost key players during a game or prior to a game in practice but by the next game the backups need to step up and play better. They didn't. So Fox's "next man up" didn't work. Is that coaching or did Pace just not supply him with enough good players? Is it Paces fault then? Someone has to answer for it.

I don't want to hear about other coaches and their records. They aren't coaching the Bears so that too is irrelevant. No Bears HC has ever lost 13 games in a 16 game season and only one ever lost 13 games period. Jim Dooley and he was fired after that season. Fox's record is even worse than Dooley's and only a hair above Abe Gibron's so it's been about 45 years since we've stunk this badly and you want me to believe it's all just injuries and a lack of talent?

No, I won't so Go Fish again.

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Vic Fangio doubles down on return to Bears Jan 1, 2017 10:22:10 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 10:22:10 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2017 8:12:32 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Dec 31, 2016 14:07:49 GMT -6 @soulman said:

We have maybe a half dozen or so key players on IR. The rest are either backup level or not even guys who would have still been on the team. It's isn't and never has been 19 top starters.

Where we differ is not on talent period but where you want to over promote the lack of talent vs reality I see. I don't see as much lack of talent as you do. I see far more lack of consistency and discipline even 15 games into a 16 game season. If it wasn't for the fact that this issue also followed Fox here from Denver I probably wouldn't be as sensitive to it as I am. But it is what happened out here as well and a major portion of the reason he was let go.

Is that just another coincidence on top of being fired in Carolina after going 2-14 and for favoring building around Jimmy Clausen vs drafting Cam Newton? I'll grant you that coaches lose games due to injuries but here's HC with both a 2-14 and a 3-13 season on his record mixed with two SB appearances and the rest mostly .500 seasons. I would submit to you that really good coaches don't have even one disaster season on their coaching record let alone two and they normally are one of the best HCs in a teams history not the second worst.

How can I say it any differently than his record speaks for itself.....and me.

I've gone through the list of guys on IR and already shown how more than half were either starters or major contributors to this team, so while you and others want to float this narrative that most of them were not important the FACTS dispute that. Either way I'm still waiting for someone in the "Fire Fox" camp to show me the over flowing list of coaches who win the majority of their games with 4th string QB's and a secondary that starts guys who were claimed after being cut from one team and were undrafted free agents prior to that! Please...I'd love to see the list! Does anyone have it?

Again...only two active coaches who have been at it as long as Fox has have a better winning percentage...and one of them is Bill Belichick.

Here ya' go. This should be my mantra for this week brother.

There is certainly a laundry list of reasons why Fox should get the benefit of a third year, with the most notable being the injuries that plagued the Bears' locker room. It's hard to imagine any team -- even the Patriots -- being able to overcome 19 injuries to key players on both sides of the ball.

That said, there's still no excuse for the many moments during the year that the Bears seemed outcoached, overwhelmed and underprepared. Whether it's a direct result of Fox's shortcomings or an indication that his coordinators -- specifically offensive coordinator Dowell Loggains -- aren't the right guys for the job, injuries weren't the only reason the Bears have had such a bad year.

Nonetheless, Fox will be back in 2017 in what will be a make-or-break year for everyone on the sideline and in the front office.

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butkus3595
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Vic Fangio doubles down on return to Bears Jan 1, 2017 12:26:20 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Jan 1, 2017 12:26:20 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2017 10:22:10 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Jan 1, 2017 8:12:32 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I've gone through the list of guys on IR and already shown how more than half were either starters or major contributors to this team, so while you and others want to float this narrative that most of them were not important the FACTS dispute that. Either way I'm still waiting for someone in the "Fire Fox" camp to show me the over flowing list of coaches who win the majority of their games with 4th string QB's and a secondary that starts guys who were claimed after being cut from one team and were undrafted free agents prior to that! Please...I'd love to see the list! Does anyone have it?

Again...only two active coaches who have been at it as long as Fox has have a better winning percentage...and one of them is Bill Belichick.

Here ya' go. This should be my mantra for this week brother.

There is certainly a laundry list of reasons why Fox should get the benefit of a third year, with the most notable being the injuries that plagued the Bears' locker room. It's hard to imagine any team -- even the Patriots -- being able to overcome 19 injuries to key players on both sides of the ball.

That said, there's still no excuse for the many moments during the year that the Bears seemed outcoached, overwhelmed and underprepared. Whether it's a direct result of Fox's shortcomings or an indication that his coordinators -- specifically offensive coordinator Dowell Loggains -- aren't the right guys for the job, injuries weren't the only reason the Bears have had such a bad year.

Nonetheless, Fox will be back in 2017 in what will be a make-or-break year for everyone on the sideline and in the front office.

I would say one goes with the other. If I know I lack talent I may make decisions I might otherwise not make.

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Vic Fangio doubles down on return to Bears Jan 1, 2017 13:06:33 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 13:06:33 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2017 12:26:20 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Jan 1, 2017 10:22:10 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Here ya' go. This should be my mantra for this week brother.

There is certainly a laundry list of reasons why Fox should get the benefit of a third year, with the most notable being the injuries that plagued the Bears' locker room. It's hard to imagine any team -- even the Patriots -- being able to overcome 19 injuries to key players on both sides of the ball.

That said, there's still no excuse for the many moments during the year that the Bears seemed outcoached, overwhelmed and underprepared. Whether it's a direct result of Fox's shortcomings or an indication that his coordinators -- specifically offensive coordinator Dowell Loggains -- aren't the right guys for the job, injuries weren't the only reason the Bears have had such a bad year.

Nonetheless, Fox will be back in 2017 in what will be a make-or-break year for everyone on the sideline and in the front office.

I would say one goes with the other. If I know I lack talent I may make decisions I might otherwise not make.

Well then are we saying that lack of talent is on Pace then? The 2015 draft is somewhat spotty so far with Goldman being the only true blue chipper to date but the entire league is giving him kudos for this last one with three rookies in the top 20-25.

Freeman and Hicks were stellar signings this past year and Porter and Trevathan have certainly earned their paychecks to date when healthy. Le Blanc looks like a decent score as a NB/CB and there are a few other UDFAs and later picks who look like they can play once they get some better coaching and more experience. So again I see inconsistency, unpreparedness, and a lack of accountability as bigger problem that overall talent. Fox doesn't seem to be claiming a lack of talent. In fact he seems to be saying much the opposite.

If it was so terrible then is Fox lying when he claims we're close? If it's bad talent and he knows it then he's just a big bag of wind looking to be let off the hook due to injuries. So which is it? It can't be both. You think we lack talent and he thinks we just have to get the talent we have to play better. Well if he's not lying and it's the latter then that's all abut coaching right? And if the talent is crap then that's on Pace so do we fire him and keep Fox?

And if you take all of that out of the equation completely it still doesn't answer for Fox's numerous game day **** ups with clock management and game management (ie; being out coached) not to mention poor personnel decisions throughout the year. I know we didn't all imagine those.

So I think that mantra is spot on because it does give some allowance for injuries but even if I blame as much as half of it on that I'm still left with a number of games that were lost for all of the other reasons. He simply hasn't done what he was brought here to do and there is no way anyone can say that he has.

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Last Edit: Jan 1, 2017 13:10:04 GMT -6 by Deleted

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Vic Fangio doubles down on return to Bears Jan 1, 2017 13:16:06 GMT -6 via mobile butkus3595 likes this

Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 13:16:06 GMT -6

I don't wanna add much to this tired discussion, but I think it's important to keep in mind how undesirable a job with the Bears is this year.

How many days left until we can move forward?

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butkus3595
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Vic Fangio doubles down on return to Bears Jan 1, 2017 13:51:05 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Jan 1, 2017 13:51:05 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2017 13:06:33 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Jan 1, 2017 12:26:20 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I would say one goes with the other. If I know I lack talent I may make decisions I might otherwise not make.

Well then are we saying that lack of talent is on Pace then? The 2015 draft is somewhat spotty so far with Goldman being the only true blue chipper to date but the entire league is giving him kudos for this last one with three rookies in the top 20-25.

Freeman and Hicks were stellar signings this past year and Porter and Trevathan have certainly earned their paychecks to date when healthy. Le Blanc looks like a decent score as a NB/CB and there are a few other UDFAs and later picks who look like they can play once they get some better coaching and more experience. So again I see inconsistency, unpreparedness, and a lack of accountability as bigger problem that overall talent. Fox doesn't seem to be claiming a lack of talent. In fact he seems to be saying much the opposite.

If it was so terrible then is Fox lying when he claims we're close? If it's bad talent and he knows it then he's just a big bag of wind looking to be let off the hook due to injuries. So which is it? It can't be both. You think we lack talent and he thinks we just have to get the talent we have to play better. Well if he's not lying and it's the latter then that's all abut coaching right? And if the talent is crap then that's on Pace so do we fire him and keep Fox?

And if you take all of that out of the equation completely it still doesn't answer for Fox's numerous game day **** ups with clock management and game management (ie; being out coached) not to mention poor personnel decisions throughout the year. I know we didn't all imagine those.

So I think that mantra is spot on because it does give some allowance for injuries but even if I blame as much as half of it on that I'm still left with a number of games that were lost for all of the other reasons. He simply hasn't done what he was brought here to do and there is no way anyone can say that he has.

I'd say Pace has done a decent job adding to the talent level of this team, however, when it was pretty baron to begin with and then 20 more end up on the IR, and 2 get suspended for 4 games a piece...well...you see how that talent thing becomes an issue again? I know a lot of us are very high on Fangio...well his defense has been playing like shit....should he get shit canned too? or does he get a pass?

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Vic Fangio doubles down on return to Bears Jan 1, 2017 17:01:08 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 17:01:08 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2017 13:51:05 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Jan 1, 2017 13:06:33 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Well then are we saying that lack of talent is on Pace then? The 2015 draft is somewhat spotty so far with Goldman being the only true blue chipper to date but the entire league is giving him kudos for this last one with three rookies in the top 20-25.

Freeman and Hicks were stellar signings this past year and Porter and Trevathan have certainly earned their paychecks to date when healthy. Le Blanc looks like a decent score as a NB/CB and there are a few other UDFAs and later picks who look like they can play once they get some better coaching and more experience. So again I see inconsistency, unpreparedness, and a lack of accountability as bigger problem that overall talent. Fox doesn't seem to be claiming a lack of talent. In fact he seems to be saying much the opposite.

If it was so terrible then is Fox lying when he claims we're close? If it's bad talent and he knows it then he's just a big bag of wind looking to be let off the hook due to injuries. So which is it? It can't be both. You think we lack talent and he thinks we just have to get the talent we have to play better. Well if he's not lying and it's the latter then that's all abut coaching right? And if the talent is crap then that's on Pace so do we fire him and keep Fox?

And if you take all of that out of the equation completely it still doesn't answer for Fox's numerous game day **** ups with clock management and game management (ie; being out coached) not to mention poor personnel decisions throughout the year. I know we didn't all imagine those.

So I think that mantra is spot on because it does give some allowance for injuries but even if I blame as much as half of it on that I'm still left with a number of games that were lost for all of the other reasons. He simply hasn't done what he was brought here to do and there is no way anyone can say that he has.

I'd say Pace has done a decent job adding to the talent level of this team, however, when it was pretty baron to begin with and then 20 more end up on the IR, and 2 get suspended for 4 games a piece...well...you see how that talent thing becomes an issue again? I know a lot of us are very high on Fangio...well his defense has been playing like shit....should he get shit canned too? or does he get a pass?

After today? No one gets a pass. Not even the water boy and the cleat cleaner. I want some butts.

LOL

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Vic Fangio doubles down on return to Bears Jan 1, 2017 17:34:25 GMT -6 butkus3595 likes this

Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 17:34:25 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2017 12:26:20 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Jan 1, 2017 10:22:10 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Here ya' go. This should be my mantra for this week brother.

There is certainly a laundry list of reasons why Fox should get the benefit of a third year, with the most notable being the injuries that plagued the Bears' locker room. It's hard to imagine any team -- even the Patriots -- being able to overcome 19 injuries to key players on both sides of the ball.

That said, there's still no excuse for the many moments during the year that the Bears seemed outcoached, overwhelmed and underprepared. Whether it's a direct result of Fox's shortcomings or an indication that his coordinators -- specifically offensive coordinator Dowell Loggains -- aren't the right guys for the job, injuries weren't the only reason the Bears have had such a bad year.

Nonetheless, Fox will be back in 2017 in what will be a make-or-break year for everyone on the sideline and in the front office.

I would say one goes with the other. If I know I lack talent I may make decisions I might otherwise not make.

Fox? Is that you?

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Vic Fangio doubles down on return to Bears Jan 1, 2017 17:34:59 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 17:34:59 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2017 17:01:08 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Jan 1, 2017 13:51:05 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I'd say Pace has done a decent job adding to the talent level of this team, however, when it was pretty baron to begin with and then 20 more end up on the IR, and 2 get suspended for 4 games a piece...well...you see how that talent thing becomes an issue again? I know a lot of us are very high on Fangio...well his defense has been playing like shit....should he get shit canned too? or does he get a pass?

After today? No one gets a pass. Not even the water boy and the cleat cleaner. I want some butts.

LOL

Hey Alex? Can he say that here?

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Vic Fangio doubles down on return to Bears

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