If anyone Fangio has earned our benefit of the doubt or trust. He has has to manage a D that has missed almost half of it's starters for the better part of the year. If he gets one or two more impacts starters this off season (Either FA or draft) then the D should be ready to make a real dent in keeping us close in most games. In other words, giving us a fair chance to win more games.
Apparently injuries aren't an excuse however Malaga....
Did you mean Bellamy? If so you missed my point. He didn't criticize him he lauded him for his passion and whatever. I didn't suggest he publicly lynch the guy what I suggested is that he be honest and say what needed to be said and he didn't.
I think where you and I may differ is on that leadership issue which in this case is what his last employer seemed to take issue with some of as well. I didn't start out criticizing Fox when he first arrived despite that. I know Elway can be an imperious prick at times but he plays to win and Fox didn't.
Now roll forward for two more years and let that rep for not demanding enough accountability from his player steep a little longer and answer this. Was Elway wrong? Am I wrong to criticize him for it? His record would say no.
Meredith, Bellamy...whoever. Do you think they don't know that they need to catch the ball in key situations? I mean...do you think they missed that part of the job description? Further....do fans not know that receivers need to catch the ball in key situations? I mean you'd think the name of the position gives it away. So I'm wondering why you feel the need for Fox to state what is already so unbelievably obvious? I'd prefer he says what needs to be honestly said directly to the player...I could care less what he says to the media...talking like a tough guy to the media about obvious things players need to do doesn't show leadership to me.
As for Elway being wrong...we'll never know because Fox didn't get a chance to coach a better team against a weaker Super Bowl opponent...so really it's all a guessing game. But I'll play the game...did Kubiak forget how to coach this year? I mean he should have just coached this team right back to the Super Bowl right? Or at least the play offs...no? Should Elway can Kubiak now for not getting the job done? Or is Denver just not as TALENTED this year?
2016 Denver loses:
QB Peyton Manning (retired), DE Malik Jackson, LB Danny Trevathan, G Evan Mathis, OT Ryan Clady (trade) S David Bruton, QB Brock Osweiler, OT Tyler Polumbus (retired), TE Vernon Davis, LS Aaron Brewer, OLB Lerentee McCray, S Omar Bolden, WR Andre Caldwell, OT Ryan Harris
Meredith, Bellamy...whoever. Do you think they don't know that they need to catch the ball in key situations? I mean...do you think they missed that part of the job description? Further....do fans not know that receivers need to catch the ball in key situations? I mean you'd think the name of the position gives it away. So I'm wondering why you feel the need for Fox to state what is already so unbelievably obvious? I'd prefer he says what needs to be honestly said directly to the player...I could care less what he says to the media...talking like a tough guy to the media about obvious things players need to do doesn't show leadership to me.
As for Elway being wrong...we'll never know because Fox didn't get a chance to coach a better team against a weaker Super Bowl opponent...so really it's all a guessing game. But I'll play the game...did Kubiak forget how to coach this year? I mean he should have just coached this team right back to the Super Bowl right? Or at least the play offs...no? Should Elway can Kubiak now for not getting the job done? Or is Denver just not as TALENTED this year?
2016 Denver loses:
QB Peyton Manning (retired), DE Malik Jackson, LB Danny Trevathan, G Evan Mathis, OT Ryan Clady (trade) S David Bruton, QB Brock Osweiler, OT Tyler Polumbus (retired), TE Vernon Davis, LS Aaron Brewer, OLB Lerentee McCray, S Omar Bolden, WR Andre Caldwell, OT Ryan Harris
Oh I get it Belli...but apparently you should just be able to coach up whatever talent you have. Kubiak went from Super Bowl winner to watching the play offs. This can't be acceptable...can it? (Please notice the sarcasm dripping from this post).
Did you mean Bellamy? If so you missed my point. He didn't criticize him he lauded him for his passion and whatever. I didn't suggest he publicly lynch the guy what I suggested is that he be honest and say what needed to be said and he didn't.
I think where you and I may differ is on that leadership issue which in this case is what his last employer seemed to take issue with some of as well. I didn't start out criticizing Fox when he first arrived despite that. I know Elway can be an imperious prick at times but he plays to win and Fox didn't.
Now roll forward for two more years and let that rep for not demanding enough accountability from his player steep a little longer and answer this. Was Elway wrong? Am I wrong to criticize him for it? His record would say no.
Meredith, Bellamy...whoever. Do you think they don't know that they need to catch the ball in key situations? I mean...do you think they missed that part of the job description? Further....do fans not know that receivers need to catch the ball in key situations? I mean you'd think the name of the position gives it away. So I'm wondering why you feel the need for Fox to state what is already so unbelievably obvious? I'd prefer he says what needs to be honestly said directly to the player...I could care less what he says to the media...talking like a tough guy to the media about obvious things players need to do doesn't show leadership to me.
As for Elway being wrong...we'll never know because Fox didn't get a chance to coach a better team against a weaker Super Bowl opponent...so really it's all a guessing game. But I'll play the game...did Kubiak forget how to coach this year? I mean he should have just coached this team right back to the Super Bowl right? Or at least the play offs...no? Should Elway can Kubiak now for not getting the job done? Or is Denver just not as TALENTED this year?
Look either I'm not sayin it well enough for you to get my meaning or you choose not to because the words "tough guy" are yours and not mine. You seem to want to take what I do say and put your own twist on it with words I never said and emotions I never even implied. So we're both wasting time here and I ain't playing.
The rest, all of it, is just nonsense with you choosing your own viewpoint to handicap one Super Bowl vs another and we've been through this before too so I ain't playing this game with you either. You can't even get the players straight yet I'm supposed to buy into the rest of this? Not a chance brother.
I know what John Fox is and I know what he isn't and as JJ who knows the Broncos and Bronco fans as well as anyone here including me posted himself no one in this town shed any tears after Fox left. So he can be YOUR coach if you like. That's your choice. But he isn't mine OK? More debate won't change that so let's let it go. It's become a circular debate.
QB Peyton Manning (retired), DE Malik Jackson, LB Danny Trevathan, G Evan Mathis, OT Ryan Clady (trade) S David Bruton, QB Brock Osweiler, OT Tyler Polumbus (retired), TE Vernon Davis, LS Aaron Brewer, OLB Lerentee McCray, S Omar Bolden, WR Andre Caldwell, OT Ryan Harris
Oh I get it Belli...but apparently you should just be able to coach up whatever talent you have. Kubiak went from Super Bowl winner to watching the play offs. This can't be acceptable...can it? (Please notice the sarcasm dripping from this post).
Good teams need both solid talent + solid coaching. There is a bit of a luck factor too (good or bad). This is football 101. Fox may be a poor coach, or a good coach, but to blindly dismiss the injury factor is kind of crazy.
Meredith, Bellamy...whoever. Do you think they don't know that they need to catch the ball in key situations? I mean...do you think they missed that part of the job description? Further....do fans not know that receivers need to catch the ball in key situations? I mean you'd think the name of the position gives it away. So I'm wondering why you feel the need for Fox to state what is already so unbelievably obvious? I'd prefer he says what needs to be honestly said directly to the player...I could care less what he says to the media...talking like a tough guy to the media about obvious things players need to do doesn't show leadership to me.
As for Elway being wrong...we'll never know because Fox didn't get a chance to coach a better team against a weaker Super Bowl opponent...so really it's all a guessing game. But I'll play the game...did Kubiak forget how to coach this year? I mean he should have just coached this team right back to the Super Bowl right? Or at least the play offs...no? Should Elway can Kubiak now for not getting the job done? Or is Denver just not as TALENTED this year?
Look either I'm not sayin it well enough for you to get my meaning or you choose not to because the words "tough guy" are yours and not mine. You seem to want to take what I do say and put your own twist on it with words I never said and emotions I never even implied. So we're both wasting time here and I ain't playing.
The rest, all of it, is just nonsense with you choosing your own viewpoint to handicap one Super Bowl vs another and we've been through this before too so I ain't playing this game with you either. You can't even get the players straight yet I'm supposed to buy into the rest of this? Not a chance brother.
I know what John Fox is and I know what he isn't and as JJ who knows the Broncos and Bronco fans as well as anyone here including me posted himself no one in this town shed any tears after Fox left. So he can be YOUR coach if you like. That's your choice. But he isn't mine OK? More debate won't change that so let's let it go. It's become a circular debate.
Thats fine...but the point still remains...did Kubiak forget how to coach this year? You and others point is that it's not about talent it's about coaching. That Denver team won a Super Bowl last year and now they'll be watching the play offs. Based on your standard Kubiak should be out...right? Or at the very least on the hot seat with his coaching skills questioned....right? Did Del Rio just learn how to coach?
Look either I'm not sayin it well enough for you to get my meaning or you choose not to because the words "tough guy" are yours and not mine. You seem to want to take what I do say and put your own twist on it with words I never said and emotions I never even implied. So we're both wasting time here and I ain't playing.
The rest, all of it, is just nonsense with you choosing your own viewpoint to handicap one Super Bowl vs another and we've been through this before too so I ain't playing this game with you either. You can't even get the players straight yet I'm supposed to buy into the rest of this? Not a chance brother.
I know what John Fox is and I know what he isn't and as JJ who knows the Broncos and Bronco fans as well as anyone here including me posted himself no one in this town shed any tears after Fox left. So he can be YOUR coach if you like. That's your choice. But he isn't mine OK? More debate won't change that so let's let it go. It's become a circular debate.
Thats fine...but the point still remains...did Kubiak forget how to coach this year? You and others point is that it's not about talent it's about coaching. That Denver team won a Super Bowl last year and now they'll be watching the play offs. Based on your standard Kubiak should be out...right? Or at the very least on the hot seat with his coaching skills questioned....right? Did Del Rio just learn how to coach?
Oh Lord, did Kubiak also lose both the starting QBs, a starting ILB (who we signed), a top UFA DE, and a few others from last years team? So it's not exactly the same team is it. The players changed. But Kubiak did win a SB with almost the exact same team Fox lost one with AND went one and done in the playoffs the following year. Neither of which has anything to do with this year so again that's never been my comparison so it irrelevant.
So yes talent has an impact but you want it to be all about a lack of talent and I'm not buying that. We have talent and added to that is Fox's own mantra of "next man up" and too few backups did actually step up and play well enough to win. That's on the coaching and you'll notice Fox hasn't used that little chant for quite awhile because he's look like a fool doing it.
At worst the Broncos are an 8-8 team playing with two QBs who prior to this year never played a single down of NFL football but they're still outplaying us with vets like Cutler, Hoyer, and Barkley. so yes the coaching in Denver is also far better than Fox who has us finishing 3-13 in all likelihood which is the singe worst record any Bear team has had since going to a 16 game schedule. He has the 2nd worst record of any Bears HC in history and you want to sell the idea that all of that is simply a lack of talent? Go fish.
We have added a significant amount of talent both through FA and the draft since Fox arrived and yet our 2016 record is worse than our 2015 record. Lack of talent doesn't account for at least 3 or 4 games I can relate to which were lost primarily due to poor choices by Fox in either game strategy or clock management. His rep as a poor game coach also precedes him so why you defend the guy is beyond me. I can't come up with a single reason to keep him that makes any sense but it seems they will anyway. That's the Bears for you.
Thats fine...but the point still remains...did Kubiak forget how to coach this year? You and others point is that it's not about talent it's about coaching. That Denver team won a Super Bowl last year and now they'll be watching the play offs. Based on your standard Kubiak should be out...right? Or at the very least on the hot seat with his coaching skills questioned....right? Did Del Rio just learn how to coach?
Oh Lord, did Kubiak also lose both the starting QBs, a starting ILB (who we signed), a top UFA DE, and a few others from last years team? So it's not exactly the same team is it. The players changed. But Kubiak did win a SB with almost the exact same team Fox lost one with AND went one and done in the playoffs the following year. Neither of which has anything to do with this year so again that's never been my comparison so it irrelevant.
So yes talent has an impact but you want it to be all about a lack of talent and I'm not buying that. We have talent and added to that is Fox's own mantra of "next man up" and too few backups did actually step up and play well enough to win. That's on the coaching and you'll notice Fox hasn't used that little chant for quite awhile because he's look like a fool doing it.
At worst the Broncos are an 8-8 team playing with two QBs who prior to this year never played a single down of NFL football but they're still outplaying us with vets like Cutler, Hoyer, and Barkley. so yes the coaching in Denver is also far better than Fox who has us finishing 3-13 in all likelihood which is the singe worst record any Bear team has had since going to a 16 game schedule. He has the 2nd worst record of any Bears HC in history and you want to sell the idea that all of that is simply a lack of talent? Go fish.
We have added a significant amount of talent both through FA and the draft since Fox arrived and yet our 2016 record is worse than our 2015 record. Lack of talent doesn't account for at least 3 or 4 games I can relate to which were lost primarily due to poor choices by Fox in either game strategy or clock management. His rep as a poor game coach also precedes him so why you defend the guy is beyond me. I can't come up with a single reason to keep him that makes any sense but it seems they will anyway. That's the Bears for you.
So losing key players is important then? Color me confused now...I thought ya just coach up who ya got...injuries don't matter, players leaving doesn't matter, suspensions don't matter, talent level doesn't matter....those are all just excuses. But now apparently it appears thats not the case. Huh?!
You know whats also funny...those two coordinators...ya know...the one's who call the plays, who couldn't get it done in Denver...cause they did such a bad job coaching...where are those two guys right now? I wonder?
I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand...yes...we added talent....BUT WHERE WAS THAT TALENT? On the freakin IR!!!!! You can't win games when the talent you added isn't on the field!!!! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Lastly...Matt Barkley never threw 1 regular season pass in the NFL prior to coming here and was sitting on his couch in September watching games like you and me.
Oh Lord, did Kubiak also lose both the starting QBs, a starting ILB (who we signed), a top UFA DE, and a few others from last years team? So it's not exactly the same team is it. The players changed. But Kubiak did win a SB with almost the exact same team Fox lost one with AND went one and done in the playoffs the following year. Neither of which has anything to do with this year so again that's never been my comparison so it irrelevant.
So yes talent has an impact but you want it to be all about a lack of talent and I'm not buying that. We have talent and added to that is Fox's own mantra of "next man up" and too few backups did actually step up and play well enough to win. That's on the coaching and you'll notice Fox hasn't used that little chant for quite awhile because he's look like a fool doing it.
At worst the Broncos are an 8-8 team playing with two QBs who prior to this year never played a single down of NFL football but they're still outplaying us with vets like Cutler, Hoyer, and Barkley. so yes the coaching in Denver is also far better than Fox who has us finishing 3-13 in all likelihood which is the singe worst record any Bear team has had since going to a 16 game schedule. He has the 2nd worst record of any Bears HC in history and you want to sell the idea that all of that is simply a lack of talent? Go fish.
We have added a significant amount of talent both through FA and the draft since Fox arrived and yet our 2016 record is worse than our 2015 record. Lack of talent doesn't account for at least 3 or 4 games I can relate to which were lost primarily due to poor choices by Fox in either game strategy or clock management. His rep as a poor game coach also precedes him so why you defend the guy is beyond me. I can't come up with a single reason to keep him that makes any sense but it seems they will anyway. That's the Bears for you.
So losing key players is important then? Color me confused now...I thought ya just coach up who ya got...injuries don't matter, players leaving doesn't matter, suspensions don't matter, talent level doesn't matter....those are all just excuses. But now apparently it appears thats not the case. Huh?!
You know whats also funny...those two coordinators...ya know...the one's who call the plays, who couldn't get it done in Denver...cause they did such a bad job coaching...where are those two guys right now? I wonder?
I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand...yes...we added talent....BUT WHERE WAS THAT TALENT? On the freakin IR!!!!! You can't win games when the talent you added isn't on the field!!!! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Lastly...Matt Barkley never threw 1 regular season pass in the NFL prior to coming here and was sitting on his couch in September watching games like you and me.
We have maybe a half dozen or so key players on IR. The rest are either backup level or not even guys who would have still been on the team. It's isn't and never has been 19 top starters.
Where we differ is not on talent period but where you want to over promote the lack of talent vs reality I see. I don't see as much lack of talent as you do. I see far more lack of consistency and discipline even 15 games into a 16 game season. If it wasn't for the fact that this issue also followed Fox here from Denver I probably wouldn't be as sensitive to it as I am. But it is what happened out here as well and a major portion of the reason he was let go.
Is that just another coincidence on top of being fired in Carolina after going 2-14 and for favoring building around Jimmy Clausen vs drafting Cam Newton? I'll grant you that coaches lose games due to injuries but here's HC with both a 2-14 and a 3-13 season on his record mixed with two SB appearances and the rest mostly .500 seasons. I would submit to you that really good coaches don't have even one disaster season on their coaching record let alone two and they normally are one of the best HCs in a teams history not the second worst.
How can I say it any differently than his record speaks for itself.....and me.
Thats fine...but the point still remains...did Kubiak forget how to coach this year? You and others point is that it's not about talent it's about coaching. That Denver team won a Super Bowl last year and now they'll be watching the play offs. Based on your standard Kubiak should be out...right? Or at the very least on the hot seat with his coaching skills questioned....right? Did Del Rio just learn how to coach?
Oh Lord, did Kubiak also lose both the starting QBs, a starting ILB (who we signed), a top UFA DE, and a few others from last years team? So it's not exactly the same team is it. The players changed. But Kubiak did win a SB with almost the exact same team Fox lost one with AND went one and done in the playoffs the following year. Neither of which has anything to do with this year so again that's never been my comparison so it irrelevant.
So yes talent has an impact but you want it to be all about a lack of talent and I'm not buying that. We have talent and added to that is Fox's own mantra of "next man up" and too few backups did actually step up and play well enough to win. That's on the coaching and you'll notice Fox hasn't used that little chant for quite awhile because he's look like a fool doing it.
At worst the Broncos are an 8-8 team playing with two QBs who prior to this year never played a single down of NFL football but they're still outplaying us with vets like Cutler, Hoyer, and Barkley. so yes the coaching in Denver is also far better than Fox who has us finishing 3-13 in all likelihood which is the singe worst record any Bear team has had since going to a 16 game schedule. He has the 2nd worst record of any Bears HC in history and you want to sell the idea that all of that is simply a lack of talent? Go fish.
We have added a significant amount of talent both through FA and the draft since Fox arrived and yet our 2016 record is worse than our 2015 record. Lack of talent doesn't account for at least 3 or 4 games I can relate to which were lost primarily due to poor choices by Fox in either game strategy or clock management. His rep as a poor game coach also precedes him so why you defend the guy is beyond me. I can't come up with a single reason to keep him that makes any sense but it seems they will anyway. That's the Bears for you.
On the freakin IR!!!!! You can't win games when the talent you added isn't on the field!!!! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Lastly...Matt Barkley never threw 1 regular season pass in the NFL prior to coming here and was sitting on his couch in September watching games like you and me.