Anything other than Odunze or DE at #9 would be a surprise.
I hate both your wildcards.
My wildcard is to trade down for Powers-Johnson, Thomas, or Newton.
Doesn't Newton have a foot injury?
Thomas I'm fine with. I'm ok with JPJ too but has to be a major trade down. I'm not taking a low value position in the top-16.
Newton had a Jones fracture (the bone to his little toe) and had surgery to fix it. I think he played on it before the surgery so it must not be really serious thing (LINK).
Anything other than Odunze or DE at #9 would be a surprise.
I hate both your wildcards.
My wildcard is to trade down for Powers-Johnson, Thomas, or Newton.
Doesn't Newton have a foot injury?
Thomas I'm fine with. I'm ok with JPJ too but has to be a major trade down. I'm not taking a low value position in the top-16.
Newton had foot surgery for a “Jones fracture.” I read that it takes 3-4 months to completely heal. So he should be fine before September.
You and I have different evaluations on JPJ. Given the Bears roster and probable offensive scheme, I’d rather have him than any offensive lineman in this draft. I think we may still have some weakness in the middle of this offensive line, not the tackles.
Thomas I'm fine with. I'm ok with JPJ too but has to be a major trade down. I'm not taking a low value position in the top-16.
Newton had foot surgery for a “Jones fracture.” I read that it takes 3-4 months to completely heal. So he should be fine before September.
You and I have different evaluations on JPJ. Given the Bears roster and probable offensive scheme, I’d rather have him than any offensive lineman in this draft. I think we may still have some weakness in the middle of this offensive line, not the tackles.
5th metatarsal, yeah gotcha. Not a dealbreaker but foot injuries are a bigger issue for 300 lb linemen grappling in the trenches than they are for you and me.
Lemme make this clear also: I LOVE JPJ. I'd love to have him. Just not sure I love him enough to spend a 1st on him. Graham Barton, Frazier, and a few others should be available on Day 2.
Newton had foot surgery for a “Jones fracture.” I read that it takes 3-4 months to completely heal. So he should be fine before September.
You and I have different evaluations on JPJ. Given the Bears roster and probable offensive scheme, I’d rather have him than any offensive lineman in this draft. I think we may still have some weakness in the middle of this offensive line, not the tackles.
5th metatarsal, yeah gotcha. Not a dealbreaker but foot injuries are a bigger issue for 300 lb linemen grappling in the trenches than they are for you and me.
Lemme make this clear also: I LOVE JPJ. I'd love to have him. Just not sure I love him enough to spend a 1st on him. Graham Barton, Frazier, and a few others should be available on Day 2.
We don’t have a second round pick, and all these guys are gone before third round. JPJ will go in first round, because he’s that good.
5th metatarsal, yeah gotcha. Not a dealbreaker but foot injuries are a bigger issue for 300 lb linemen grappling in the trenches than they are for you and me.
Lemme make this clear also: I LOVE JPJ. I'd love to have him. Just not sure I love him enough to spend a 1st on him. Graham Barton, Frazier, and a few others should be available on Day 2.
We don’t have a second round pick, and all these guys are gone before third round. JPJ will go in first round, because he’s that good.
As will lots of other players who play more impactful and costly positions.
We don’t have a second round pick, and all these guys are gone before third round. JPJ will go in first round, because he’s that good.
As will lots of other players who play more impactful and costly positions.
And that all depends on what players are still on the board at the time. And it’s not just the position he plays, but also how well he plays it compared to how well JPJ plays his. And if they are close in playing ability, then NEED also factors into the decision. If we trade down to 16-20 for JPJ, the top-4 WRs are probably already off the board. C/G is greater need than tackle, and that leaves DL. I would be very happy with Newton, but that must be weighed against the JABF (former) preference for “max support “ for rookie QB and defer finishing the DL until next year.
As will lots of other players who play more impactful and costly positions.
And that all depends on what players are still on the board at the time. And it’s not just the position he plays, but also how well he plays it compared to how well JPJ plays his. And if they are close in playing ability, then NEED also factors into the decision. If we trade down to 16-20 for JPJ, the top-4 WRs are probably already off the board. C/G is greater need than tackle, and that leaves DL. I would be very happy with Newton, but that must be weighed against the JABF (former) preference for “max support “ for rookie QB and defer finishing the DL until next year.
I struggle with what would be the best support for Caleb Williams, because an argument can be made that WR is best, or you could say OL would be best, or you could make the argument that an elite edge rusher opposite Montez Sweat would elevate the defense in a way that takes some pressure off of our rookie QB. Basically the argument is that this will mean Caleb won't have to score as high in these games each week as he had to last season at USC. I'll be honest, I get attracted to each of these possibilities - these 3 main options - WR, OL or Edge options. They all would have a positive impact upon a rookie QB's success. In theory (not necessarily accurate) I would think the OL would be the option that would help a rookie QB the most. If you don't have time to pass to WRs then a WR has diminishing returns. But (this makes me crazier than I already am) if the OL is "okay" and "good enough" with the FA center and (hopefully) Jenkins isn't glassman this year, and Nate Davis is better this year than last year at RG - then sure, draft that elite WR and we're set. And maybe we just forget about getting a guy to complement Montez Sweat and just take our lumps this year on D to some extent. Kick the can on Edge down to next year.
I do go back and forth. I think I prefer to draft Odunze or Nabers as my favorite option due to K. Allen being old (and probably a one year rental anyway). But if we go OL at #9 then that guy has to be an OT. You don't (or shouldn't) draft a G or C that high. So then what? Brax is now a backup swing OT. I don't make an elite RT (and Darnell Wright is definitely an elite RT in the making) I don't make him a lessor value guy as a G. I just don't do that. If we draft a T at #9 that means the Brax experiment is dead. He just got upgraded in this draft. Is that what we want?
If we want a G or C then we need to trade down that #9 pick. And I'm not convinced JPJ is going to be a better player than Frazier or even Van Pran. Maybe. But it's not a slam dunk to me. We should revisit this in 3 years and see who the best C was in this draft. We may be surprised (I think we will be).
My point is that statement "max support for the QB" isn't as black-and-white to me as it may be with others. Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, but just that I struggle with making up my mind definitively on this. I want max support for Caleb Williams but can't make up my mind as to exactly what IS best here.
And that all depends on what players are still on the board at the time. And it’s not just the position he plays, but also how well he plays it compared to how well JPJ plays his. And if they are close in playing ability, then NEED also factors into the decision. If we trade down to 16-20 for JPJ, the top-4 WRs are probably already off the board. C/G is greater need than tackle, and that leaves DL. I would be very happy with Newton, but that must be weighed against the JABF (former) preference for “max support “ for rookie QB and defer finishing the DL until next year.
I struggle with what would be the best support for Caleb Williams, because an argument can be made that WR is best, or you could say OL would be best, or you could make the argument that an elite edge rusher opposite Montez Sweat would elevate the defense in a way that takes some pressure off of our rookie QB. Basically the argument is that this will mean Caleb won't have to score as high in these games each week as he had to last season at USC. I'll be honest, I get attracted to each of these possibilities - these 3 main options - WR, OL or Edge options. They all would have a positive impact upon a rookie QB's success. In theory (not necessarily accurate) I would think the OL would be the option that would help a rookie QB the most. If you don't have time to pass to WRs then a WR has diminishing returns. But (this makes me crazier than I already am) if the OL is "okay" and "good enough" with the FA center and (hopefully) Jenkins isn't glassman this year, and Nate Davis is better this year than last year at RG - then sure, draft that elite WR and we're set. And maybe we just forget about getting a guy to complement Montez Sweat and just take our lumps this year on D to some extent. Kick the can on Edge down to next year.
I do go back and forth. I think I prefer to draft Odunze or Nabers as my favorite option due to K. Allen being old (and probably a one year rental anyway). But if we go OL at #9 then that guy has to be an OT. You don't (or shouldn't) draft a G or C that high. So then what? Brax is now a backup swing OT. I don't make an elite RT (and Darnell Wright is definitely an elite RT in the making) I don't make him a lessor value guy as a G. I just don't do that. If we draft a T at #9 that means the Brax experiment is dead. He just got upgraded in this draft. Is that what we want?
If we want a G or C then we need to trade down that #9 pick. And I'm not convinced JPJ is going to be a better player than Frazier or even Van Pran. Maybe. But it's not a slam dunk to me. We should revisit this in 3 years and see who the best C was in this draft. We may be surprised (I think we will be).
My point is that statement "max support for the QB" isn't as black-and-white to me as it may be with others. Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, but just that I struggle with making up my mind definitively on this. I want max support for Caleb Williams but can't make up my mind as to exactly what IS best here.
Elite pass rushers don't really help develop a QB. Goff didn't get better because of Donald and Trubisky didn't get better because of Mack. Sweat is better than anything in this draft and he isn't even a top 10 pass rusher. I'm all for OT or WR. I lean towards WR more so because Allen is 32, injury prone, and on one year contract. DJ Moore has a good 5 years in him if he stays healthy but we have no one else outside of him going forward. Going WR first allows you a young QB/WR pair for the next 10 years. We be set with a WR1 and WR2 for the next 5 years or so.
Elite pass rushers don't really help develop a QB. Goff didn't get better because of Donald and Trubisky didn't get better because of Mack. Sweat is better than anything in this draft and he isn't even a top 10 pass rusher. I'm all for OT or WR. I lean towards WR more so because Allen is 32, injury prone, and on one year contract. DJ Moore has a good 5 years in him if he stays healthy but we have no one else outside of him going forward. Going WR first allows you a young QB/WR pair for the next 10 years. We be set with a WR1 and WR2 for the next 5 years or so.
And outside of DJ and KA the rest of the WR room isn't much. If either guy gets injured, or KA moves on after this season to another team, it would be good to have another solid WR... a young one who, as you point out, could pair with Caleb for a number of years. It makes sense.