The Bears fail because of continued ineptitude in 1 area

AlexM
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The Bears fail because of continued ineptitude in 1 area Sept 25, 2023 13:20:31 GMT -6 via mobile

Post by AlexM on Sept 25, 2023 13:20:31 GMT -6

Sept 25, 2023 12:46:56 GMT -6 davidl said:

The Giants actually had a WORSE record than the Bears in 2021. They were 4-14. As I have said for a long time, it does NOT take a total roster teardown (like Poles did) and then 3 years to at least get back to looking like a decent football team. But you DO need to hire a competent GM and HC. The Bears 5-person “committee” interview Joe Schoen for GM and Brian Daboll for HC. Then, in their infinite wisdom hired Poles. What happen after that is that Schoen became GM for the Giants and Daboll HC. Incidentally, I was campaigning for Daboll here when Eberflus was hired. So, the Giants went to 9-7-1 in 2022 and beat the Vikings in the playoffs before losing to the Eagles. Meanwhile, the Poles experiment proceeded as planned, and the Bears finished 2022 at 3-14 with the worse damn Bears team I can remember. But, never fear, he had $100M and the #1 draft pick to get everything back on track in 2023 and Super Bowl ready by 2024-25. So here we are with the worst team in the NFL in 2023 – ranked #32 by the power ranking websites. Of course we don’t need them to know how $#%^ing BAD this team is.

What now? We have seen that McCaskey and his hand-picked committee is not up to the job. We have to trust something or somebody to right the ship. If Kevin Warren has the balls to fire all these guys, I say trust him to hire the next GM. On the other hand, if he and McCaskey launch a public relations program to keep Poles at the end of the year and fire Eberflus as sacrificial scapegoat, then I will have no confidence in Warren, either. In that case, Poles will have two top-5 draft picks in 2024. Imagine that. He will “trade down” at least one of them for bundle of lower picks which he will again squander on guys like we have on the roster today in an attempt to fill some of the many holes he created.

I remember you being for Daboll, although its hard to say what would other HCs do here, with this management and players

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mpbears68
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The Bears fail because of continued ineptitude in 1 area Sept 25, 2023 13:47:21 GMT -6

Post by mpbears68 on Sept 25, 2023 13:47:21 GMT -6

Sept 25, 2023 11:50:38 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Sept 25, 2023 11:42:10 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

This isn't hard to figure out. They do this shit every time.

Not that Bears brass cares what we think and say here, but I and others were screaming to replace Pace & Nagy after the 2020 season. They foolishly kept them -- remember the excuse? It was "good collaboration". What a freakin joke! Th real reason is that George didn't want to eat the cost of the contracts.

They came out of the Emery/Trestman debacle by forcing Fox onto Pace and Cutler onto Fox. Neither wanted the other in both pairings. That worked out so great that Pace literally ignored his own HC and kept him in the dark while he missed the QB of a generation by choosing Trubisky instead. Then Pace fired Fox and forced Trubisky onto Nagy. When that failed, they held onto those two losers too long which forced Pace's 2nd QB pick (Fields) onto Poles and Flus. Who knows if Flus was even Poles' first choice as HC, probably not.

The Bears do this shit all the time. Maybe it's because they're too timid to make sweeping changes. Maybe they force these mismatches cuz they're saving money by not eating existing contracts. Maybe they think they're the smartest guys in the room. I don't know.

What I do know is that your chances of long-tern success are highest when you let your GM hire his own HC and the two of them together select their own QB. You know, you start fresh and have EVERYONE TIED TOGETHER and MOTIVATED TOGETHER.

Otherwise, you constantly have these mismatches. This isn't rocket science, guys.

It goes back further than that!

Angelo was forced to keep Jureon for one year before he was able to hire Lovie.
Emery was forced to keep Lovie for a year before he hired Trestman.

This is the pattern. This is the way.

Yep, you're right.

I don't understand why they have so much trouble doing a proper reset. You should always tie a newly-drafted QB to a newly-hired coaching staff who cooperates with the GM to draft the guy they want. You should NEVER bet trying to force a QB on a head coach or a head coach onto a GM. That mis-aligns peoples' motivations and timelines and often forces a young QB to learn multiple schemes from multiple OCs.

It's tough enough to develop a QB that no way should you be introducing additional complicating factors into the mix.

I really can't fathom why this is so hard for HH to comprehend.

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mpbears68
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The Bears fail because of continued ineptitude in 1 area Sept 25, 2023 13:50:19 GMT -6 riczaj01 likes this

Post by mpbears68 on Sept 25, 2023 13:50:19 GMT -6

Sept 25, 2023 13:20:31 GMT -6 AlexM said:

Sept 25, 2023 12:46:56 GMT -6 davidl said:

The Giants actually had a WORSE record than the Bears in 2021. They were 4-14. As I have said for a long time, it does NOT take a total roster teardown (like Poles did) and then 3 years to at least get back to looking like a decent football team. But you DO need to hire a competent GM and HC. The Bears 5-person “committee” interview Joe Schoen for GM and Brian Daboll for HC. Then, in their infinite wisdom hired Poles. What happen after that is that Schoen became GM for the Giants and Daboll HC. Incidentally, I was campaigning for Daboll here when Eberflus was hired. So, the Giants went to 9-7-1 in 2022 and beat the Vikings in the playoffs before losing to the Eagles. Meanwhile, the Poles experiment proceeded as planned, and the Bears finished 2022 at 3-14 with the worse damn Bears team I can remember. But, never fear, he had $100M and the #1 draft pick to get everything back on track in 2023 and Super Bowl ready by 2024-25. So here we are with the worst team in the NFL in 2023 – ranked #32 by the power ranking websites. Of course we don’t need them to know how $#%^ing BAD this team is.

What now? We have seen that McCaskey and his hand-picked committee is not up to the job. We have to trust something or somebody to right the ship. If Kevin Warren has the balls to fire all these guys, I say trust him to hire the next GM. On the other hand, if he and McCaskey launch a public relations program to keep Poles at the end of the year and fire Eberflus as sacrificial scapegoat, then I will have no confidence in Warren, either. In that case, Poles will have two top-5 draft picks in 2024. Imagine that. He will “trade down” at least one of them for bundle of lower picks which he will again squander on guys like we have on the roster today in an attempt to fill some of the many holes he created.

I remember you being for Daboll, although its hard to say what would other HCs do here, with this management and players

Daboll had led a very marginal NYG team to the playoffs and won a game. He has also taken Daniel Jones from bust to surprisingly serviceable.

Bears passed on Arians too and hired Trestman instead. These guys are just very poor decision-makers.

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brasilbear
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The Bears fail because of continued ineptitude in 1 area Sept 25, 2023 14:00:50 GMT -6 riczaj01 likes this

Post by brasilbear on Sept 25, 2023 14:00:50 GMT -6

Sept 25, 2023 13:16:36 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Sept 25, 2023 13:01:04 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

to be honest, if I owned the Bears I'd want to be in on every meeting too, especially if it was my "only" business. Doesn't make it right, but I an understand it.

Here is me playing pop-amateur-physch-guy:

Mega rich people (like the McCasky family) tend to think they are the smartest people in the room, because they are the richest. Why else would they be rich? Of course the McCasky family thinks they know best. They are literally the richest people in any room they enter. (That may be all MSU.)

I would agree w/this, if they didn't call themselves just fans and in need of constantly hiring consultants to help them do their jobs. The people you are talking about are guys like the dallas and ex Washington owner, or even the Indy owner. The mc's don't act like that. It'd be one thing if they were sitting in to learn how to do it, but that's obviously not the case.

If you admit you are just a fan, even though coming from NFL royalty, then just be a fan and stay out of it.

I think George calling himself a fan is his way of covering his butt. "Of course I'm just a fan who needs to rely on others to help me out" is pr talk. I still believe he is in every meeting, shaking hands with every prospective coach and GM, and has a voice in the table discussion afterwards. No matter how strong willed Poles is, when the owner says "I like Flus" thats pretty much end of discussion. We can argue that Poles should stand up to George and he should, but would he? 32 GM jobs and you're going to expect a newbe hire to tell the owner its my way or I'm walking? I don't buy it.

The better owners stay out of the way of the staff they have assembled, without a doubt. Kraft lets BillB do what he wants. The Rooney family in Pitt too. Whoever owns SF does the same (can you imagine the Bears asking for permission to take 3 first round picks for a ju-co QB?).

i'm just wanting now.....

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paytonisgod
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The Bears fail because of continued ineptitude in 1 area Sept 25, 2023 14:59:43 GMT -6

Post by paytonisgod on Sept 25, 2023 14:59:43 GMT -6

Sept 25, 2023 14:00:50 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Sept 25, 2023 13:16:36 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

I would agree w/this, if they didn't call themselves just fans and in need of constantly hiring consultants to help them do their jobs. The people you are talking about are guys like the dallas and ex Washington owner, or even the Indy owner. The mc's don't act like that. It'd be one thing if they were sitting in to learn how to do it, but that's obviously not the case.

If you admit you are just a fan, even though coming from NFL royalty, then just be a fan and stay out of it.

I think George calling himself a fan is his way of covering his butt. "Of course I'm just a fan who needs to rely on others to help me out" is pr talk. I still believe he is in every meeting, shaking hands with every prospective coach and GM, and has a voice in the table discussion afterwards. No matter how strong willed Poles is, when the owner says "I like Flus" thats pretty much end of discussion. We can argue that Poles should stand up to George and he should, but would he? 32 GM jobs and you're going to expect a newbe hire to tell the owner its my way or I'm walking? I don't buy it.

The better owners stay out of the way of the staff they have assembled, without a doubt. Kraft lets BillB do what he wants. The Rooney family in Pitt too. Whoever owns SF does the same (can you imagine the Bears asking for permission to take 3 first round picks for a ju-co QB?).

i'm just wanting now.....

Sorry I don't see this at all. The McCaskey's seem like absentee owners most of the time. I wonder if they even really care that much.

Of course hands on owner's don't always do well either. Unfortunately there isn't an obvious trait that makes a good owner vs. bad.

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dachuckster
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The Bears fail because of continued ineptitude in 1 area Sept 25, 2023 15:27:40 GMT -6

Post by dachuckster on Sept 25, 2023 15:27:40 GMT -6

I hope Warren works out and I also hope he has the control he needs (and the balls needed to use it). If he doesn't have both, we're screwed.

My guess is that Arians wanted total control over the team. And no questions asked. So they passed on hm.

If Poles and Warren don't work out, the McCaskey's will have to turn over control to an outside management team. And if I were running that team I would have it in the contract that if we (the outside mgmt team) met a series of performance goals, we would be given something like a 10% - 20% ownership of the team. And they would take a pass on me for the same reasons the passed on Arians.

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davidl
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The Bears fail because of continued ineptitude in 1 area Sept 25, 2023 16:00:54 GMT -6 AlexM likes this

Post by davidl on Sept 25, 2023 16:00:54 GMT -6

Sept 25, 2023 13:20:31 GMT -6 AlexM said:

Sept 25, 2023 12:46:56 GMT -6 davidl said:

The Giants actually had a WORSE record than the Bears in 2021. They were 4-14. As I have said for a long time, it does NOT take a total roster teardown (like Poles did) and then 3 years to at least get back to looking like a decent football team. But you DO need to hire a competent GM and HC. The Bears 5-person “committee” interview Joe Schoen for GM and Brian Daboll for HC. Then, in their infinite wisdom hired Poles. What happen after that is that Schoen became GM for the Giants and Daboll HC. Incidentally, I was campaigning for Daboll here when Eberflus was hired. So, the Giants went to 9-7-1 in 2022 and beat the Vikings in the playoffs before losing to the Eagles. Meanwhile, the Poles experiment proceeded as planned, and the Bears finished 2022 at 3-14 with the worse damn Bears team I can remember. But, never fear, he had $100M and the #1 draft pick to get everything back on track in 2023 and Super Bowl ready by 2024-25. So here we are with the worst team in the NFL in 2023 – ranked #32 by the power ranking websites. Of course we don’t need them to know how $#%^ing BAD this team is.

What now? We have seen that McCaskey and his hand-picked committee is not up to the job. We have to trust something or somebody to right the ship. If Kevin Warren has the balls to fire all these guys, I say trust him to hire the next GM. On the other hand, if he and McCaskey launch a public relations program to keep Poles at the end of the year and fire Eberflus as sacrificial scapegoat, then I will have no confidence in Warren, either. In that case, Poles will have two top-5 draft picks in 2024. Imagine that. He will “trade down” at least one of them for bundle of lower picks which he will again squander on guys like we have on the roster today in an attempt to fill some of the many holes he created.

I remember you being for Daboll, although its hard to say what would other HCs do here, with this management and players

Daboll was named Associated Press NFL 2022 Coach of the Year. He was good at working with quarterback Jones. He would have been much better for Fields, which was the main reason I wanted him instead of Eberflus.

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The Bears fail because of continued ineptitude in 1 area

Post by AlexM on Sept 25, 2023 13:20:31 GMT -6

Post by mpbears68 on Sept 25, 2023 13:47:21 GMT -6

Post by mpbears68 on Sept 25, 2023 13:50:19 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Sept 25, 2023 14:00:50 GMT -6

Post by paytonisgod on Sept 25, 2023 14:59:43 GMT -6

Post by dachuckster on Sept 25, 2023 15:27:40 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Sept 25, 2023 16:00:54 GMT -6