Sounds like the Arlington Heights deal may be dead.

JABF
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Sounds like the Arlington Heights deal may be dead. Sept 16, 2023 14:12:21 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Sept 16, 2023 14:12:21 GMT -6

The article says too many government entities got greedy on milking the Bears for extra taxes, and that may have killed the deal for Arlington Heights. It gives other reason also, as to why it looks like AR isn't going to happen. Of course it is not a done deal but I think the elected officials probably killed what could have been a very good situation for Arlington Heights.

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Analyst Says Recent Shift In Chicago Bears Stadium Plans Is No Accident

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dachuckster
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Sounds like the Arlington Heights deal may be dead. Sept 16, 2023 16:33:38 GMT -6 xaosgorlla2 likes this

Post by dachuckster on Sept 16, 2023 16:33:38 GMT -6

Sept 16, 2023 14:12:21 GMT -6 JABF said:

The article says too many government entities got greedy on milking the Bears for extra taxes, and that may have killed the deal for Arlington Heights. It gives other reason also, as to why it looks like AR isn't going to happen. Of course it is not a done deal but I think the elected officials probably killed what could have been a very good situation for Arlington Heights.

LINK
Analyst Says Recent Shift In Chicago Bears Stadium Plans Is No Accident

I would not discount the likelihood of the Bears playing at the old Arlington Park quite yet. All of the village governments involved (Arlington Heights, Palatine and Rolling Meadows) have really strong NIMBY groups of voters to deal with. And there will have to be a consensus of all three local governments. If you look at the map of where the old racetrack used to be, immediately on the southern border (Euclid Road), is the northern border of the village of Rolling Meadows. Immediately to the west (on the western border of the expressway, Ill 53) is the eastern border of Palatine.

From the little I've seen of how Kevin Warren has approached the whole stadium project. I am somewhat optimistic. He seems to know how the play the game in the way that I was advocating a while ago. All he has to do is to convince the three local governments that they are running a serious risk of losing out totally on the project. Everybody knows what kind of financial windfall they will receive once the project is completed. So, all three of these villages have a good idea how much they will lose if the Bears go elsewhere.

I have no idea if the Bears will end up building at the old racetrack site or not. But I also know the current mayor of the City of Chicago is under some enormous pressure as well. My guess is he is currently trying to offer the Bears some very lucrative terms. But he will have to get it all past his city council first.

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JABF
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Sounds like the Arlington Heights deal may be dead. Sept 16, 2023 17:09:49 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Sept 16, 2023 17:09:49 GMT -6

Sept 16, 2023 16:33:38 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

Sept 16, 2023 14:12:21 GMT -6 JABF said:

The article says too many government entities got greedy on milking the Bears for extra taxes, and that may have killed the deal for Arlington Heights. It gives other reason also, as to why it looks like AR isn't going to happen. Of course it is not a done deal but I think the elected officials probably killed what could have been a very good situation for Arlington Heights.

I would not discount the likelihood of the Bears playing at the old Arlington Park quite yet. All of the village governments involved (Arlington Heights, Palatine and Rolling Meadows) have really strong NIMBY groups of voters to deal with. And there will have to be a consensus of all three local governments. If you look at the map of where the old racetrack used to be, immediately on the southern border (Euclid Road), is the northern border of the village of Rolling Meadows. Immediately to the west (on the western border of the expressway, Ill 53) is the eastern border of Palatine.

From the little I've seen of how Kevin Warren has approached the whole stadium project. I am somewhat optimistic. He seems to know how the play the game in the way that I was advocating a while ago. All he has to do is to convince the three local governments that they are running a serious risk of losing out totally on the project. Everybody knows what kind of financial windfall they will receive once the project is completed. So, all three of these villages have a good idea how much they will lose if the Bears go elsewhere.

I have no idea if the Bears will end up building at the old racetrack site or not. But I also know the current mayor of the City of Chicago is under some enormous pressure as well. My guess is he is currently trying to offer the Bears some very lucrative terms. But he will have to get it all past his city council first.

+1
If the Bears do move on I'll bet it's going to be a stadium (they own) in the City of Chicago. It sounds like the City is going to pitch them a deal they can't refuse, now that the new mayor is pushing this. As far as Arlington Heights goes, I wonder if they've thought about the fact that a new owner of the property could be a less desirable business? Instead of an upscale campus of businesses around a state-of-the-art sports and entertainment venue, you get something horrible like a mega-meat packing business, or one of the nastier (property value killing) things that you don't want there? There is a limit to what the people can limit as far as what a new owner can do with that property. They may gladly pay the taxes but the business itself could be pretty nasty.

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Last Edit: Sept 16, 2023 17:11:34 GMT -6 by JABF

"Do anything that might make the world a better place for someone"
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riczaj01
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Sounds like the Arlington Heights deal may be dead. Sept 17, 2023 10:17:16 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Sept 17, 2023 10:17:16 GMT -6

Sept 16, 2023 14:12:21 GMT -6 JABF said:

The article says too many government entities got greedy on milking the Bears for extra taxes, and that may have killed the deal for Arlington Heights. It gives other reason also, as to why it looks like AR isn't going to happen. Of course it is not a done deal but I think the elected officials probably killed what could have been a very good situation for Arlington Heights.

LINK
Analyst Says Recent Shift In Chicago Bears Stadium Plans Is No Accident

Wonder what Chicago politician/s bribed the AH bureaucracy to pull this stunt off.

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dachuckster
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Sounds like the Arlington Heights deal may be dead. Sept 18, 2023 6:35:34 GMT -6 AlexM and riczaj01 like this

Post by dachuckster on Sept 18, 2023 6:35:34 GMT -6

Sept 16, 2023 17:09:49 GMT -6 JABF said:

Sept 16, 2023 16:33:38 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

I would not discount the likelihood of the Bears playing at the old Arlington Park quite yet. All of the village governments involved (Arlington Heights, Palatine and Rolling Meadows) have really strong NIMBY groups of voters to deal with. And there will have to be a consensus of all three local governments. If you look at the map of where the old racetrack used to be, immediately on the southern border (Euclid Road), is the northern border of the village of Rolling Meadows. Immediately to the west (on the western border of the expressway, Ill 53) is the eastern border of Palatine.

From the little I've seen of how Kevin Warren has approached the whole stadium project. I am somewhat optimistic. He seems to know how the play the game in the way that I was advocating a while ago. All he has to do is to convince the three local governments that they are running a serious risk of losing out totally on the project. Everybody knows what kind of financial windfall they will receive once the project is completed. So, all three of these villages have a good idea how much they will lose if the Bears go elsewhere.

I have no idea if the Bears will end up building at the old racetrack site or not. But I also know the current mayor of the City of Chicago is under some enormous pressure as well. My guess is he is currently trying to offer the Bears some very lucrative terms. But he will have to get it all past his city council first.

+1
If the Bears do move on I'll bet it's going to be a stadium (they own) in the City of Chicago. It sounds like the City is going to pitch them a deal they can't refuse, now that the new mayor is pushing this. As far as Arlington Heights goes, I wonder if they've thought about the fact that a new owner of the property could be a less desirable business? Instead of an upscale campus of businesses around a state-of-the-art sports and entertainment venue, you get something horrible like a mega-meat packing business, or one of the nastier (property value killing) things that you don't want there? There is a limit to what the people can limit as far as what a new owner can do with that property. They may gladly pay the taxes but the business itself could be pretty nasty.

I've been following several discussions on the stadium on the local Nextdoor app groups. The opposition to the new stadium is by several of what you might loosely call "grass-root" groups here. Most of the opposition is based on assumptions that I personally consider irrational.

These folks want a business that is fairly profitable so it can pay enough taxes (and generate enough jobs so there are additional income tax, sales tax, etc revenues) to reduce their property tax burden while supporting increased school and municipal infrastructure spending. At the same time, they want businesses that will "fit in" with their communities (whatever the hell that means) as well as not seriously impact their daily lives (no serious increase in traffic, not inebriated partiers in bars, etc).

Basically, they want something that will miraculously provide funding for 30% to 40% of their governmental spending, at the same time allow for a >25% increase in that governmental spending, and not have any impact on the current character of their villages.

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riczaj01
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Sounds like the Arlington Heights deal may be dead. Sept 18, 2023 7:24:03 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Sept 18, 2023 7:24:03 GMT -6

Sept 18, 2023 6:35:34 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

Sept 16, 2023 17:09:49 GMT -6 JABF said:

+1
If the Bears do move on I'll bet it's going to be a stadium (they own) in the City of Chicago. It sounds like the City is going to pitch them a deal they can't refuse, now that the new mayor is pushing this. As far as Arlington Heights goes, I wonder if they've thought about the fact that a new owner of the property could be a less desirable business? Instead of an upscale campus of businesses around a state-of-the-art sports and entertainment venue, you get something horrible like a mega-meat packing business, or one of the nastier (property value killing) things that you don't want there? There is a limit to what the people can limit as far as what a new owner can do with that property. They may gladly pay the taxes but the business itself could be pretty nasty.

I've been following several discussions on the stadium on the local Nextdoor app groups. The opposition to the new stadium is by several of what you might loosely call "grass-root" groups here. Most of the opposition is based on assumptions that I personally consider irrational.

These folks want a business that is fairly profitable so it can pay enough taxes (and generate enough jobs so there are additional income tax, sales tax, etc revenues) to reduce their property tax burden while supporting increased school and municipal infrastructure spending. At the same time, they want businesses that will "fit in" with their communities (whatever the hell that means) as well as not seriously impact their daily lives (no serious increase in traffic, not inebriated partiers in bars, etc).

Basically, they want something that will miraculously provide funding for 30% to 40% of their governmental spending, at the same time allow for a >25% increase in that governmental spending, and not have any impact on the current character of their villages.

Eating your cake, and wanting it to. You cannot have all of that.

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shark86 All-Pro Suffering from Bears FHDD Posts: 3,954 Likes: 5,239	Sounds like the Arlington Heights deal may be dead. Sept 18, 2023 7:28:57 GMT -6 Post by shark86 on Sept 18, 2023 7:28:57 GMT -6 I don't blame AH anymore, Why in hell would they want to be home to a loser organization like the McAsskeys? Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Don't take Schist for Granite. People say I'm Gneiss, Tuff, and a little Wacke. Bears FHDD = Frustration, Heartache, Disgust and Despair Syndrome

dachuckster
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Sounds like the Arlington Heights deal may be dead. Sept 18, 2023 9:07:58 GMT -6 AlexM likes this

Post by dachuckster on Sept 18, 2023 9:07:58 GMT -6

Sept 18, 2023 7:28:57 GMT -6 shark86 said:

I don't blame AH anymore, Why in hell would they want to be home to a loser organization like the McAsskeys?

Actually, some of the area suburbs (most notably the villages of Schaumburg and Hoffman Estates) have track records of doing really good things in attracting businesses. When the Woodfield Mall was in its heyday, Schaumburg very purposefully attracted a huge group of automobile dealerships just west of the mall on Gold Rd (Ill 58). They had such a windfall in sales tax revenues that the village started sending property owners rebate checks on their property taxes. Hoffman Estates has periodically done something similar.

We bought our house in Mount Prospect (the suburb immediately east of Arlington Heights) in 1986. This is a nice area. Very middle class to upper middle class, but nothing really high end or anything. Over the last 37 years, our property takes have gone from the middle $3000's to well over $13k. I am paying just under 10% of the original purchase price of my home annually in property taxes. If I were in AH, I would be actively campaigning for the Bears to move there.

AH stands to get something like 1% to 1.5% in sales tax on every dollar spent there on game day. And if the Bears and their investment partners can make it a successful event venue, the total increase in sales tax revenue could be in the $100 million to $200 million range. The current sales tax revenue for AH is currently somewhere around $100 million. Both Schaumburg and Hoffman Estates have sales tax revenues somewhere between $300 million and $400 million.

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AlexM
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Sounds like the Arlington Heights deal may be dead. Sept 18, 2023 9:13:23 GMT -6 via mobile shark86 likes this

Post by AlexM on Sept 18, 2023 9:13:23 GMT -6

Sept 18, 2023 9:07:58 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

Sept 18, 2023 7:28:57 GMT -6 shark86 said:

I don't blame AH anymore, Why in hell would they want to be home to a loser organization like the McAsskeys?

Actually, some of the area suburbs (most notably the villages of Schaumburg and Hoffman Estates) have track records of doing really good things in attracting businesses. When the Woodfield Mall was in its heyday, Schaumburg very purposefully attracted a huge group of automobile dealerships just west of the mall on Gold Rd (Ill 58). They had such a windfall in sales tax revenues that the village started sending property owners rebate checks on their property taxes. Hoffman Estates has periodically done something similar.

We bought our house in Mount Prospect (the suburb immediately east of Arlington Heights) in 1986. This is a nice area. Very middle class to upper middle class, but nothing really high end or anything. Over the last 37 years, our property takes have gone from the middle $3000's to well over $13k. I am paying just under 10% of the original purchase price of my home annually in property taxes. If I were in AH, I would be actively campaigning for the Bears to move there.

AH stands to get something like 1% to 1.5% in sales tax on every dollar spent there on game day. And if the Bears and their investment partners can make it a successful event venue, the total increase in sales tax revenue could be in the $100 million to $200 million range. The current sales tax revenue for AH is currently somewhere around $100 million. Both Schaumburg and Hoffman Estates have sales tax revenues somewhere between $300 million and $400 million.

Why in the name of God is stadium stopped then!?
Like Gecko said: Greed is good!? Cmon.

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dachuckster
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Sounds like the Arlington Heights deal may be dead. Sept 18, 2023 12:08:46 GMT -6 AlexM likes this

Post by dachuckster on Sept 18, 2023 12:08:46 GMT -6

Sept 18, 2023 9:13:23 GMT -6 AlexM said:

Sept 18, 2023 9:07:58 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

Actually, some of the area suburbs (most notably the villages of Schaumburg and Hoffman Estates) have track records of doing really good things in attracting businesses. When the Woodfield Mall was in its heyday, Schaumburg very purposefully attracted a huge group of automobile dealerships just west of the mall on Gold Rd (Ill 58). They had such a windfall in sales tax revenues that the village started sending property owners rebate checks on their property taxes. Hoffman Estates has periodically done something similar.

We bought our house in Mount Prospect (the suburb immediately east of Arlington Heights) in 1986. This is a nice area. Very middle class to upper middle class, but nothing really high end or anything. Over the last 37 years, our property takes have gone from the middle $3000's to well over $13k. I am paying just under 10% of the original purchase price of my home annually in property taxes. If I were in AH, I would be actively campaigning for the Bears to move there.

AH stands to get something like 1% to 1.5% in sales tax on every dollar spent there on game day. And if the Bears and their investment partners can make it a successful event venue, the total increase in sales tax revenue could be in the $100 million to $200 million range. The current sales tax revenue for AH is currently somewhere around $100 million. Both Schaumburg and Hoffman Estates have sales tax revenues somewhere between $300 million and $400 million.

Why in the name of God is stadium stopped then!?
Like Gecko said: Greed is good!? Cmon.

There are a couple of answers on that.

First is the storied corruption in city politics. There is a tremendously corrupt governmental bureaucracy. This corruption is not limited to activities within the city limits of Chicago. When I first moved out to the suburbs from the city, I saw that a paving company that shared the family name of two people who were on the village board was getting the lion's share of contracts (and no-bid contracts at that). These are people who are in increasing their personal wealth and everything else is secondary.

Second is that a lot of these folks aren't the smartest people. A lot of the local governments here have suffered financially because of revenue losses in the pandemic. Many are desperate to get an increase in revenues immediately. In order to reap the benefits of what the Bears want to do will take several years to happen. With all the NIMBY folks who are doing things like recall petitions for the AH mayor and village board, are you going to sign off on a deal where the Bears get a huge write down on their property taxes during a multi-year construction/development project?

And don't assume the mayor of Chicago holds all the aces on this either. While he desperately needs to keep all the revenue he can inside the city limits, he cannot appear to be giving a wealthy suburban family a sweetheart deal. The combined assets of the McCaskey family are in the multi-billions and they all live in Lake Forest (where Halas Hall is located). This is the #5 city in Illinois by income and is in the top 100 US cities by income. If the mayor is perceived as giving away everything to keep the Bears in Chicago, he will be a one term mayor.

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Sounds like the Arlington Heights deal may be dead.

Post by JABF on Sept 16, 2023 14:12:21 GMT -6

Post by dachuckster on Sept 16, 2023 16:33:38 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Sept 16, 2023 17:09:49 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Sept 17, 2023 10:17:16 GMT -6

Post by dachuckster on Sept 18, 2023 6:35:34 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Sept 18, 2023 7:24:03 GMT -6

Post by shark86 on Sept 18, 2023 7:28:57 GMT -6

Post by dachuckster on Sept 18, 2023 9:07:58 GMT -6

Post by AlexM on Sept 18, 2023 9:13:23 GMT -6

Post by dachuckster on Sept 18, 2023 12:08:46 GMT -6