"How much more astonishing the quest for the elusive Bears savior would be if Cutler had just been all that he was supposed to be."
And how much more astonishing yet had Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith ever gotten him a decent OC who could developed a then very young and inexperienced QB. But Jay got Ron Turner who has never developed a single pro QB in his life and currently been some teams former coach 18 times is his career. Now that is an enviable record of a lack of success.
18 is true according to his wiki page which takes him back to '79 lol...but you are not discrediting the times he was in charge of positions that didn't involve the Qb...Can't develop a Qb when you are coaching the Rb's or some other area.. And how Turner didn't develop players like John Congemi or Rodney Pete into superb pro material IS mind blowing! but some fans bought a billboard to get someone fired, and Ron ended up being that guy...
Then there was Mike Martz with a 10 year old offense played indoors on a rug who had more interest in getting Cutler maimed for life than in developing him. He was so interested in helping Jay succeed that he suggested we trade away Jay's number one target whose gone on to become a Pro Bowl TE at Carolina. With OCs like that who needs enemies and haters. The team provided Jay with their own.
2010 in Martz's first year, they went to the NFC championship game! Which is where Cutler also solidified his "bitch" label...It doesn't help any OC/HC or team when the rest of the NFL smells blood from your Qb who appeared to quit, especially in a division championship game against one of the biggest rivals in History..maybe the huge amount of sacks took their toll, but you still were in the NFC championship game! So they go 8-8 the following year and Martz is replaced...
And then came Mike Tice who actually was a college QB who couldn't even develop himself as one in the NFL and ended up a blocking TE. He ran Martz scheme because he lacked one of his own except for the acclaimed "Hester Package" which was based on Devin becoming invisible when he lined up so he'd remain uncovered. Of course then Cutler couldn't locate him either and when asked about it Tice simply said, "maybe I don't think this through as well as I thought I did".
Funny how you mention Tice couldn't develop "HIMSELF" as a Qb, while we are talking about Cutler lmao And they had a 10-6 record from Tice in his first year which didn't get them into the playoffs cus GB was 11-5 and Minn was also 10-6(but won the tie breaker)...but the guys in charge decided Lovie wasn't enough..maybe due to fan fuels again...no billboard this time though..but Lovie was gone.
So with midget WRs as starters, some who couldn't even make other teams rosters, and an OL with more holes than Jarlsberg Swiss rounded out Jay's first four years in Chicago winning 34 of is 56 starts (61%) and took the Bears to within one half a game of appearing in a Super Bowl losing to the eventual SB Champs from the bench from having taken one too many hits at the hands of Mike Martz.
Then the wheels fell off. Not of Cutler because he carried on, but of everything else around him. We finally had some decent WRs and a TE and RB but still no blockers and a defense who gave up a record number of points in more games that I care to remember. Jesus Christ could not have won many of those games unless God smote all 22 of his opponents. Trestman the "QB Whisperer" turned out to be Trestman the buffoon and out of either pity or sheer stupidity Baltimore hired him to do a number on Joe Flacco (who has won a SB) and ruin him too.
Trestman being a Qb whisperer IMO...was more like a training camp hero generated by the media and a hopeful fan base.
Tresty was last seen getting his Canadian work visa and passport renewed. There's a rumor he may try coaching hockey next.
In come the new regime with a new HC and an OC who looks Jay over and say I can work with this. He does and Jay has the best QBR of his career even without his three best WRs and the arrow is pointing up until.......the OC takes the HC job in Miami. Damn!
No biggie says Fox. We're gonna run the offense the same way but with Jay's old QB coach as OC and uh, I'll be helping out a bit too. Ooops. I knew there was a catch in there somewhere and somehow I seem to have missed it before. This is now John Fox's offense.....with plays by Dowell Loggains.....featuring in the role of still beleaguered QB....Jay Cutler!!!! Uh, no....he got hurt. No blocking, still? So make that Brian Hoyer.....the most efficient QB in the NFL who can't score any points until, shit, he got hurt too? Still no pass blocking huh?
So whose left? Matt whooooooo?
So yeah we still don't have a QB but not necessarily for the reasons listed in that piece and generally assumed by the national media and some Bears fans. We HAD a very good young QB eight years ago. What the **** did we ever do to help him develop? Who did we ever get to provide him with tools to win with and a line to protect him when he was still a young QB with upside? And when we finally got him some skill players he seldom had time to throw to them often enough to make a difference and then saddled him with trying to win games playing with a defense who gave up so many points my calculator ran out of places to count them all.
So..... IMHO the reason we still have vacancy at QB is because we still have a vacancy at HC, OC, possibly at GM as well, but definitely at ownership and their CEO lackey Ted Phillips who've done nothing but bungle this thing for decades since Halas died. Don't hang this shit on Cutler alone. He's done what was asked of him without complaint and some days I'm surprise he still has all of his brain cells.
This team traded for Jay Cutler and they let him down.....bigly, (gotta love those Trumpy words) not the other way around and I'll fight any man who says different.....as long as he no taller than 5'5" and 160 lbs. Ya hear that Loggains? I'm comin' for you and I'm gonna kick yer ass! You have ****ed up for the last time boy-yo. Then when I'm done with him I'm gonna kick Fox's ass. He's my age so its a fair fight.
So stop blaming Cutler for this mess.....all of you. If this team had a full brain between all of those who've run it and coached it since Cutler arrived we wouldn't have a QB vacancy and once Cutler is healthy we won't again....until they trade or release him that is and I really hope they do. He deserves to get out of this hell hole while he still has his best years coming up. This is John Fox's swamp. He is up to his ass in alligators and he's plum out of alligator repellent and ready to use you for alligator bait Jay.
Take one more week off and let that thumb heal up real good during that bye week too. Maybe gave a little sit down with Ryan Pace and let him know that if Fox is returning for games 8-16 not only would you be OK with moving on but you'd actually prefer it. Leave that grey haired disloyal old goat Fox holding the bag for a QB like he kept you waiting in line to get a vote of confidence about whether you'd get you job back from Mr. "I Can Pass But I No Can Score" Hoyer.
Just tell that old mother****er sayonara and let him try to develop Matt Barkely 'til he goes down too. But your a pro now and you won't do any of this will ya' Jay. How much longer are you gonna let this team and it's haters stick it up your ass with no so much as a thanks for the effort? Man as much as I know it will hurt the team it's time to go. You aren't wanted or appreciated and they will never get this thing rebuilt around you as long as Fox is HC. You can see at least that much now can't you?
Well anyway, take a couple more weeks off and at least think about asking for that trade. Denver may have criticized you for it but the haters in Chicago will throw a ****ing parade the day after you leave town that's how stupid they truly are.
I know we paint with different brushes of opinion and I'm not completely disagreeing with your points of not having the best talent to thrive, or the best coaches to develop, or a piss poor ownership like Virginia...because those are completely valid... ..but Jay is a grown ass man and should have been developing his own talent every day, every year...but he didn't!!! which is evident in this video...and this is just from games against ONE team!
We see the lack of talent at Wr with guys waiting for the ball to fall or what not... We see the lack of talent on the O-line with the heavy pressure on some plays...
But we also see the poor decision making from Jay... We see the inaccurate to the "WTF were you seeing" throws from Jay... ...all from time when Olsen was still the Te, to times when the they had BM, MF, MB, etc...
and yeah sure we could find the highlights of Jay's career in the same timeline and be amazed at the throws, but it clearly proves HE has done very little to fix his own flaws and bad play...on his own!
So in all due respect, i will put blame on Jay just as much...because he is "part" of the problems we have seen and will see if he stays.
Nit pick it or see it whatever way you like seqq. Most Bears fans only see what they choose to see anyway and other than writing a rebuttal like I did I'm done debating it with anyone. No one looks at facts anyway. It's 99% emotion based.
For Cutler's sake, not the Bears I do hope they trade him. This team oozes the term loser for the foreseeable future no matter whose at QB and he might as well be somewhere else where that isn't the case.
Pace and Fox can do as they like because I don't care about a God damn thing except holding those two bastards and Phillips and GMcC accountable for this crap every fuckin' day of their lives and mine until the fix it.
I'm no longer here to debate a damn thing I am like the avenging angel of death for incompetence and I will keep criticizing what I see and call it as I see it until someone in that organization begins to keep their commitments to the fans and stop begging for it regardless like the nutless wonder of eunuch CEO we have just did.
"We want fans to support us an cheer at the right time no matter what". What's the message here? It's OK for us to keep getting our asses jobbed at home but you all have to cheer for us anyway because that what loyal fans do. Well **** you Ted you dolt. Go tell that to your corporate sponsors who don't care if you win or lose I do.
+1 When we all post our different views of "The Problem" with the Bears team, it reminds me of that old story about the six blind men trying to describe an elephant.
LOL, to some of us the "elephant in the room" is the GM, others the head coach, still others the QB, some the injuries, and others the roster talent. Each of us rails about 1 part of the problem and then we try to describe the elephant in terms of 1 contributing factor. And you are 100% right, that fans are 99% emotion based. I know that I am guilty as charged there.
Anyway, for those who may not have heard of the elephant & blind men story, here it is... it's a story originally told in India:
"He said to the blind men assembled there, 'Here is an elephant,' and to one man he presented the head of the elephant, to another its ears, to another a tusk, to another the trunk, the foot, back, tail, and tuft of the tail, saying to each one that that was the elephant.
"When the blind men had felt the elephant, the raja went to each of them and said to each, 'Well, blind man, have you seen the elephant? Tell me, what sort of thing is an elephant?'
"Thereupon the men who were presented with the head answered, 'Sire, an elephant is like a pot.' And the men who had observed the ear replied, 'An elephant is like a winnowing basket.' Those who had been presented with a tusk said it was a ploughshare. Those who knew only the trunk said it was a plough; others said the body was a grainery; the foot, a pillar; the back, a mortar; the tail, a pestle, the tuft of the tail, a brush.
"Then they began to quarrel, shouting, 'Yes it is!' 'No, it is not!' 'An elephant is not that!' 'Yes, it's like that!' and so on, till they came to blows over the matter."
It's fine if you don't want to debate it, i'm tired of debating it myself over the last 5-6 years...but at the same time i wasn't the one that called me stupid!, cus you can bet your ass i will throw a huge party when Jay is gone!!!
I don't agree with the Cutler hate. I don't agree with the Cutler apologists. The guy is part of the problem, but just a part. He's sure never been part of the solution either.
But Soul has a great point in that Cutler did come into a hell-hole situation. No QB could have overcome the dysfunction here.
Jabf is 100% right In that he is just a guy, which was not what he was sold as, not what the bears gave 2 1sts and more for and not something you can build around long term.
I disagree no qb could havd suceeded here. Great players find a way to shine and cutler rarely ever shined with any more consistency the rex or orton even though he us far talented.
His problem was his refusal to play within any system he was given and outright refused to throw open wrs, and instead waited until they had already broke which allowed dbs to recover and make plays on the ball they shouldnt have been able to.
I've never felt like Jay Cutler was THE problem. He was just one of a boatload of problems we've had.
I do not think he was THE problem, but I do think he will turn out to have been a bigger problem than many thought. I think there is a halo effect around him. The way he conducts himself in the huddle and locker room. I just don't think he is the most upbeat guy and I think even when he is, he does not express it well and he certainly does not instill it in others, IMO.
I think those intangibles for a QB are much bigger than we give them credit for. You still need talent, but those leadership qualities are also important. I think without them, it is hard to rally a team and carry them on your back. He has never really been able to do that. Even when he played well.
Oh here comes the " appeared to quit " BULLSHIT again . Part of the anatomy of the human leg , which is required for said leg to work properly , was busted - which had him hobbling around - which made the DOCTORS decide he needed to come out . He kept trying ,,, and anyone who keeps trying to use this " appeared to quit BULLSHIT " is just plain flat out being an asshole cuz they want to spin it like that . Complete BULLSHIT from fkn assholes .
Oh here comes the " appeared to quit " BULLSHIT again . Part of the anatomy of the human leg , which is required for said leg to work properly , was busted - which had him hobbling around - which made the DOCTORS decide he needed to come out . He kept trying ,,, and anyone who keeps trying to use this " appeared to quit BULLSHIT " is just plain flat out being an asshole cuz they want to spin it like that . Complete BULLSHIT from fkn assholes .
Well at least quote me if you are going to write a paragraph basically telling me i can go f***-off lol
But a decent amount of media and social media DID make it "appear" that he quit in that game. Sorry if my wording wasn't specific enough when i spoke....
Did media, social media, and fans speculate the s**t out of it, with some people saying he actually did quit, without knowing the truth?...yes, yes, and yes...
Public conversations like that don't help any team...whether it is the truth, or just a tin foil hat spectator, or a troll just trying to get the feathers ruffled. That kind of public player talk is a heavy load for any HC or OC the handle when it hits main stream media and the social media crowds. I would equate it to serious billboard material for 31 other teams the following year...
Oh here comes the " appeared to quit " BULLSHIT again . Part of the anatomy of the human leg , which is required for said leg to work properly , was busted - which had him hobbling around - which made the DOCTORS decide he needed to come out . He kept trying ,,, and anyone who keeps trying to use this " appeared to quit BULLSHIT " is just plain flat out being an asshole cuz they want to spin it like that . Complete BULLSHIT from fkn assholes .
Well at least quote me if you are going to write a paragraph basically telling me i can go f***-off lol
But a decent amount of media and social media DID make it "appear" that he quit in that game. Sorry if my wording wasn't specific enough when i spoke....
Did media, social media, and fans speculate the s**t out of it, with some people saying he actually did quit, without knowing the truth?...yes, yes, and yes...
Public conversations like that don't help any team...whether it is the truth, or just a tin foil hat spectator, or a troll just trying to get the feathers ruffled. That kind of public player talk is a heavy load for any HC or OC the handle when it hits main stream media and the social media crowds. I would equate it to serious billboard material for 31 other teams the following year...
Are you seriously blaming Cutler because people were too stupid to wait for an explanation and they just filled in the blanks with their own idiotic narrative? Cutler Derangement System is reaching an all time high apparently.
The guy has played 7 fucking quarters this season. 7. How about we let him play a few more before we condemn him out of hand? Especially as we currently don't have any options this season or the next.
Well at least quote me if you are going to write a paragraph basically telling me i can go f***-off lol
But a decent amount of media and social media DID make it "appear" that he quit in that game. Sorry if my wording wasn't specific enough when i spoke....
Did media, social media, and fans speculate the s**t out of it, with some people saying he actually did quit, without knowing the truth?...yes, yes, and yes...
Public conversations like that don't help any team...whether it is the truth, or just a tin foil hat spectator, or a troll just trying to get the feathers ruffled. That kind of public player talk is a heavy load for any HC or OC the handle when it hits main stream media and the social media crowds. I would equate it to serious billboard material for 31 other teams the following year...
Are you seriously blaming Cutler because people were too stupid to wait for an explanation and they just filled in the blanks with their own idiotic narrative? Cutler Derangement System is reaching an all time high apparently.
The guy has played 7 ****ing quarters this season. 7. How about we let him play a few more before we condemn him out of hand? Especially as we currently don't have any options this season or the next.
i will let you re-read the entire thread before i go off the rails...
Ooops. I knew there was a catch in there somewhere and somehow I seem to have missed it before. This is now John Fox's offense.....with plays by Dowell Loggains.....featuring in the role of still beleaguered QB....Jay Cutler!!!! Uh, no....he got hurt. No blocking, still? So make that Brian Hoyer.....the most efficient QB in the NFL who can't score any points until, shit, he got hurt too?
Still no pass blocking huh?
