Look at the turnover!

riczaj01
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Look at the turnover! Aug 24, 2016 20:24:46 GMT -6 AlexM likes this

Post by riczaj01 on Aug 24, 2016 20:24:46 GMT -6

In Red: Unlike you I don't assume every tv host/radio hot/analyst doesn't have contacts or is lying.

Green: I'd say 43% is a good portion of the time. I know you have a severe denial of what Cutler is and isn't and I'm more then happy to not turn this into 10 pages argument of how we don't agree.

Purple, didn't you start the clairvoyance by saying he would be signed the next day?

Teal: How many qb's in the league for 10 years have no little to no playoff experience that you would want on the Bears roster?

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blueshoes Starter I hate Cher Posts: 809 Likes: 775	Look at the turnover! Aug 24, 2016 21:31:02 GMT -6 shark86 likes this Post by blueshoes on Aug 24, 2016 21:31:02 GMT -6 I'll sum it up : Jay has been in less than optimal conditions , and as a result , has played to the level of his surroundings . Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
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Look at the turnover! Aug 25, 2016 1:43:41 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 1:43:41 GMT -6

Aug 24, 2016 20:24:46 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

In Red: Unlike you I don't assume every tv host/radio hot/analyst doesn't have contacts or is lying.

But you were taking about how scouts and GMs had him ranked not media types. In fact you specifically eliminated them and pushed forward the others. The NFL would frown on public evaluations of another teams players so you never see those made public and those who choose to ostracize their own as Kromer did soon find themselves out of a job or working in Buffalo like he did and as an OL coach again.

As for the media in general they don't like Cutler so why would they be leaping for joy to publish anything postive about him? IMHO one of the biggest problems with Cutler's detractors is they all let the media do their thinking for them instead of studying the man's game and critiquing it fairly as his coaches do. Do you honestly believe Pace and Fox think they have no better that the 18th to 20th best QB running their offense?

I have no problem with your opinions Ric and I never have. It's when you make unsupported statements to support them instead of fact that you and I disagree.

Green: I'd say 43% is a good portion of the time. I know you have a severe denial of what Cutler is and isn't and I'm more then happy to not turn this into 10 pages argument of how we don't agree.

It is huh? Well then if the Bears winning percentage was .430 or 7-9 each year would you say they win a good portion of the time? I don't think you would and no one else would either. For maybe two seasons he had AJ and Marshall as his two starting WRs. That's it. The other 5 he's been lucky if he had one who was even starting caliber let alone at a Pro Bowl level like those two.

Once again it's not about your opinion of Cutler which I accept it's about how you either avoid or twist facts to represent something they don't in order to back it. Less than half is not most or a good portion of anything really. If you loaned me $100 and I paid you back $43 could I tell you I paid most of it back and you'd agree? Probably not huh? But if you do think that way slide me $100 will ya.

Purple, didn't you start the clairvoyance by saying he would be signed the next day?

Yes I did and yes it is. Now THAT is a fact! You're right it's pure supposition with a bit of exaggeration tossed in so let's just say there would in all likelihood be many team who would be interested and probably for as much or more than he makes now if his agent played it right. I doubt he'd be unsigned for long. Hell even the Broncos might like him back after they watched what Sanchez and Siemian did last week.

Teal: How many qb's in the league for 10 years have no little to no playoff experience that you would want on the Bears roster?

None which is why for now I'm quite content to give Cutler his shot for the next two seasons. If he's still floundering like he did many times before last season then we won't have to disagree anymore, or at least not about Cutler, in all likelihood he'll be gone and we'll be looking at a new QB in 2018. I just don't think that will happen is all. I still believe he's a lot better than you believe he is and the next two years should tell which one of us is right.

Now whose buying the next round, you or me? I lost track.

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AlexM
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Look at the turnover! Aug 25, 2016 3:14:42 GMT -6

Post by AlexM on Aug 25, 2016 3:14:42 GMT -6

Aug 24, 2016 20:12:58 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Aug 24, 2016 6:10:02 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Look at how the experts rank him, and i'm not talking analysts, I'm talking GM's(per usual anonomys), and scouts. They all put him in the 18-20 range now Soul. And no he's not always been surrounded by average talent, and if he was a special QB that wouldn't matter that greatly. He had Marshal, Jeffery, Bennett, Forte, for a good portion of the seasons, and the OL hasn't always been the absolute worst. He's not the most sacked qb by a long shot.

He might well get signed the next day; and that team MIGHT be better off, but they would still not make the playoffs, they would still not be closer to win a SB, b/c no team that is close is taking him b/c they already have their QB. He's had 1 playoff appearence and a .500 record in the playoffs, that's nothing to write home about for a 35 year old qb.

HA, glad you feel better. But this is one where we'll just have to agree to disagree on.

Do I really need to highlight all of the usual unsupported rumors, personal opinions lacking fact, and other nonsense here? OK I will.

In red; please tell me which scouts and GM's you've spoken with or received emails from or have ever published confirmed reports or opinions that's where they have him ranked? Ric, there are none because no one shares that info publicly. Not ever.

In green; The most he's had any of those players (except Forte) for in any sense of full production is 3 years and he's been with the Bears for 7 years. Since when did 43% become defined as a "good portion" of his career as a Bears QB? That's less than half. I don't think we even want to get into the caliber of the pass blocking he's received since he's been here. You've complained about them as loudly as anyone has. They were "mostly" not good OLs.

In purple this time; So now you're clairvoyant too? Ric this is a personal opinion not fact and you know how I feel about you using your opinions as if they were facts. That's another no no.

It's teal now right; How many other QBs have zero playoff appearances and which ones who've had more would you like to trade for? He also 33 years old not 35 and has been stuck with some pretty shitty teams over the past five years as everyone here can attest to. Cutler alone will not take a team to a championship but few QBs can.

And of course we're gonna agree to disagree. We always have and we always will until you get it right and one of these days I'm confident you will. I takes time. I understand that and I have a lot of patience.

LOLOL

Here we are, 'fighting' against trolling, but we have King of.... what would be the right word?

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Roses are red, violets are blue, if you have any sense you'll keep Butkus away from you

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Look at the turnover! Aug 25, 2016 3:43:52 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 3:43:52 GMT -6

QUOTE "ALEX"; " "Here we are, 'fighting' against trolling, but we have King of.... what would be the right word?"

Ummm, probably "Tradition". You see Ric and I have been debating this for what Ric, 5 years or maybe 6? He's losing ground though because Cutler is getting better. Now he can only say he's "average" as opposed to he "sucks". LOL I figure in two more years I might get him up to "pretty OK" but still not "great". LOL even more.

We have somewhat polar opposite views of out starting QB using the term "somewhat" somewhat loosely here of course but a football season wouldn't be a football season without at least one of these debates between us. It's not actually trolling either. That takes an unsupported comment purposely intended to provoke an argument and we aren't arguing. We "debate" opinion vs fact we never actually argue.

I respect Ric's opinion even if I disagree with him but I refuse to let him substitute that for facts. In my world there's a difference between opinion and fact and I'm "somewhat" (there's that word again) anal about that like most analytics are. I'm quite sure that's where the word probably came from. That makes sense doesn't it and it sounds better than asshole.

Plus Houston is the only one around here with an MSU and Ric can't borrow it. That would be cheating.

It's all part of a long standing tradition and if let him get away with it he'll think he's back at DaBears where I'm not having to put up with a Troll Force that's much worse than I am. I don't want to subject him to that especially after he said he actually missed our debates. We're all in this together and I'm just trying to make him feel at home. I'm just not sure who owes who a beer though so we may have to flip for it because that shit does make a man thirsty.

Check out the bottom of the posts. We each added our obligatory bro hug smilies.

It's not serious. It's just tradition.

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Last Edit: Aug 25, 2016 3:50:44 GMT -6 by Deleted

AlexM
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Look at the turnover! Aug 25, 2016 3:46:17 GMT -6 4dabers likes this

Post by AlexM on Aug 25, 2016 3:46:17 GMT -6

Aug 25, 2016 3:43:52 GMT -6 @soulman said:

QUOTE "ALEX"; "

"Here we are, 'fighting' against trolling, but we have King of.... what would be the right word?"

Ummm, probably "Tradition". You see Ric and I have been debating this for what Ric, 5 years or maybe 6? He's losing ground though because Cutler is getting better. Now he can only say he's "average" as opposed to he "sucks". LOL I figure in two more years I might get him up to "pretty OK" but still not "great". LOL even more.

We have somewhat polar opposite views of out starting QB using the term "somewhat" somewhat loosely here of course but a football season wouldn't be a football season without at least one of these debates between us. It's not actually trolling either. That takes an unsupported comment purposely intended to provoke and argument. We "debate" opinion vs fact we never actually argue.

I respect Ric's opinion even if I disagree with him but I refuse to let him substitute that for facts. In my world there's a difference between opinion and fact and I'm "somewhat" (there's that word again) anal about that like most analytics are. I'm quite sure that were the word probably came from. That makes sense doesn't it. Plus Houston is the only one with an MSU around here and Ric can't borrow it. That would be cheating. LOL

It's all part of a long standing tradition and if let him get away with it he'll think he's back at DaBears where I'm not having to put up with a Troll Force that much worse than I am. I don't want to subject him to that especially after he said he actually missed our debates. We're all in this together and I'm just trying to make him feel at home. I'm just not sure who owes who a beer though so we may have to flip for it because that shit does make a man thirsty. LOL

Check out the bottom of the posts. We each added our obligatory bro hug smilies. It's not serious. It's just tradition.

ohhh, I know, believe me... been on db.com from 2010. And that's why you are admins

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Last Edit: Aug 25, 2016 3:46:36 GMT -6 by AlexM

Roses are red, violets are blue, if you have any sense you'll keep Butkus away from you

germansbombedph Team Captain Posts: 1,317 Likes: 951	Look at the turnover! Aug 25, 2016 4:00:23 GMT -6 Post by germansbombedph on Aug 25, 2016 4:00:23 GMT -6 Ric just isn't happy with being Average. He wants more than average. He wants greatness. Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

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Look at the turnover! Aug 25, 2016 4:12:51 GMT -6 shark86 likes this

Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 4:12:51 GMT -6

Aug 24, 2016 21:31:02 GMT -6 blueshoes said:

I'll sum it up : Jay has been in less than optimal conditions , and as a result , has played to the level of his surroundings .

I think that's a great way to put it. Maybe the most disappointing thing about Jay is that he never lived up to the standards that Angelo billed but then Jay never made the claim that he was a difference maker that would make all around him better. That was Angelo doing and maybe his undoing as well.

He spent a lot of potential talent in the way of draft picks on Jay then didn't have them to draft the right players to support his expensive new QB. After Rex failed to be "the guy" he gave up on drafting a QB to avoid yet another Rex, or even worse a Cade McClown, and traded for a Pro Bowl QB Josh McDumb didn't like and pretty much drove out of Denver.

For Jay's entire career he's been saddled with billings he never asked for. In Denver he was billed as the next Elway which was about the same in 2006 when he was drafted as someone in the Porker organization calling a new HC the next Vince Lombardi. The Denver media loved Elway so when this rookie upstart was compared to him that meant and immediate challenge jay never asked for and certainly wasn't prepared for. If anyone really wants to know THAT was the beginning of his problems with the media not in Chicago. It simply followed him here.

He's not the best QB in the NFL. He may have top ten talent and skills but he's never played up to that level and at least a good portion of reasons for that has been the crap he's been given to work with on offense and a series of shitty OCs. That all changed last year and he responded to it fairly well. Now we'll see if that was an outlier in an unimpressive career of it's the harbinger of things to come. He's 33 and he's matured as a person and as a player. He also now, post Urlacher, an undeniable leader of his team and he either picks up and runs with that or he doesn't.

The clock on his career is ticking louder now than it ever has before so let's see how he responds.

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Look at the turnover! Aug 25, 2016 4:14:58 GMT -6 AlexM likes this

Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 4:14:58 GMT -6

Aug 25, 2016 3:46:17 GMT -6 AlexM said:

Aug 25, 2016 3:43:52 GMT -6 @soulman said:

QUOTE "ALEX"; "

"Here we are, 'fighting' against trolling, but we have King of.... what would be the right word?"

Ummm, probably "Tradition". You see Ric and I have been debating this for what Ric, 5 years or maybe 6? He's losing ground though because Cutler is getting better. Now he can only say he's "average" as opposed to he "sucks". LOL I figure in two more years I might get him up to "pretty OK" but still not "great". LOL even more.

We have somewhat polar opposite views of out starting QB using the term "somewhat" somewhat loosely here of course but a football season wouldn't be a football season without at least one of these debates between us. It's not actually trolling either. That takes an unsupported comment purposely intended to provoke and argument. We "debate" opinion vs fact we never actually argue.

I respect Ric's opinion even if I disagree with him but I refuse to let him substitute that for facts. In my world there's a difference between opinion and fact and I'm "somewhat" (there's that word again) anal about that like most analytics are. I'm quite sure that were the word probably came from. That makes sense doesn't it. Plus Houston is the only one with an MSU around here and Ric can't borrow it. That would be cheating. LOL

It's all part of a long standing tradition and if let him get away with it he'll think he's back at DaBears where I'm not having to put up with a Troll Force that much worse than I am. I don't want to subject him to that especially after he said he actually missed our debates. We're all in this together and I'm just trying to make him feel at home. I'm just not sure who owes who a beer though so we may have to flip for it because that shit does make a man thirsty. LOL

Check out the bottom of the posts. We each added our obligatory bro hug smilies. It's not serious. It's just tradition.

ohhh, I know, believe me... been on db.com from 2010. And that's why you are admins

To keep us from tearing one another apart?

LOLOL You sly devil you.

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Look at the turnover! Aug 25, 2016 4:19:44 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 4:19:44 GMT -6

Aug 25, 2016 4:00:23 GMT -6 germansbombedph said:

Ric just isn't happy with being Average. He wants more than average. He wants greatness.

Well first you'd have to define greatness in some quantifiable way but I'll go on record as saying I don't know if Cutler will ever be recognized as great. Maybe and maybe not. But the funny thing is in Denver a whole lot of people question that same thing about Elway because all he could ever do was get a team to a SB but never win one.

Then came the two back to back to end his career and that's what made him a legend around here at age 39. So Jay still has some time to get there.

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