When people get injured they're either over-conditioning or under-conditioning - and maybe not conditioning the right way . Conditioning isn't running in a straight line for a fb player . There's alot of twisting , turning , stopping and starting etc ... and the only way to condition these guys PROPERLY is to have them doing the kinds of things their bodies are gonna be forced to do in a real fb game .
So , either these guys aren't coming in , IN-shape , and they're forcing them to do all the twisty turny stuff BEFORE they've built up their base conditioning - or they are coming in in-shape and they're doing too much of it .
I agree with you but we still lack answers and that's what I'm looking for.
I think they have to make sure these guys are really " ready " before they go balls out . But that's NOT the way training camps are run . They expect these guys to be "ready " to do all the strenuous sht immediately - no pussyfooting around .
Think about it though - human beings DON'T push themselves w/o someone crackin a whip on them , so I think they're coming in w/o the kind of conditioning that includes the hard twisting and turning stuff ... consequently , they aren't ready for it .
I think they ought to give them a longer 'break-in' time and GRADUALLY build them up to doing the more strenuous sht . It would probably result in LESS injuries and wasted time on PUP & IR - but HC's don't think that way ... cuz they feel like they're gonna be 'behind' the other coaches who are putting their guys thru more rigorous training .
The " answer " has to be , lets try something 'different' - it could hardly be worse than these fkn 'results' .
Post by Whisky Beer Bob on Sept 28, 2016 5:16:28 GMT -6
1 would wonder if a good yoga regiment might help with the team remain flexible. I am not sure if they still do the old style of stretches, butkus3595 would know better but with the size and speed of the league just touching your toes a couple of times don't help much lol
The training and nutrition staff was a Pace hire and if I recall he did a makeover of that whole deal when he took over. State of the art we were told.
+1 We were told that. We were also told Pace had the scouting department beefed up too. We all read the glowing articles about how much better both areas were going to be. I figured injuries (especially soft tissue injuries) were expected to be reduced.
1 would wonder if a good yoga regiment might help with the team remain flexible. I am not sure if they still do the old style of stretches, butkus3595 would know better but with the size and speed of the league just touching your toes a couple of times don't help much lol
LOL...yeah...the cowboys totally revamped their warm ups when they figured out the stuff they were doing from 1975 didn't work any more. I have no problem with yoga...a lot of my guys do it...but like everything else there can be too much of a good thing. You don't want them to become hyper mobile either.
I think it's a multi layered problem. A lot of these coaches are still stuck in the old school mentality where they're using training camp to "get guys in shape"...the only problem is these guys already come in in great shape. They've been sprinting and conditioning all off season, they've been running routes multiple times a week, etc plus lifting. They come in for the most part primed and ready to go...and then you put them into over drive in conditions that in no way mimic game conditions. Thats just a recipe for disaster. Add into the fact that a lot of these guys, in my opinion, just lift too many damn weights. You look at some of the stuff these guys are doing it's just meat head bullshit. Case in point...JJ Watt is done for the year, and maybe more because he rushed himself back and felt the need to film himself doing dumb ass shit in the weight room so he could show everyone how hard he was working to come back. Thats a dumb meat head mentality. I think a large portion of the population just doesn't understand how taxing sprint work is on the body, how taxing jumps are on the body. Add in all the injuries these guys incur and the effects that has on their alignment...it's amazing even more guys aren't hurt.
So to sum my rant up...yeah...I think they could all use more flexibility and mobility work. I think more of them should take advantage of massage as a means of recovery. I think they should be more mindful of what they need in regards to what is going to keep them on the field, meaning do they need more strength work(Which the answer is probably no because they wouldn't be in the league if they were overly weak)? Do I need more speed(Who doesn't? And by the way, speed work will influence strength immensely)?
Full disclosure of injuries in sports is ridiculous and only used for fantasy sports and betting...at least IMO...i'm sure it has meaning to someone somewhere, but i don't get that thought process.
I think it would be interesting though if they didn't release any injury info, didn't talk to the media about it, and then when the game starts it's a big surprise!!!...unless it is obvious at the time they were injured that they would be out for a while.
Wouldn't that be exciting though?...you could actually enjoy the pre-game shows again!!!!
1 would wonder if a good yoga regiment might help with the team remain flexible. I am not sure if they still do the old style of stretches, butkus3595 would know better but with the size and speed of the league just touching your toes a couple of times don't help much lol
LOL...yeah...the cowboys totally revamped their warm ups when they figured out the stuff they were doing from 1975 didn't work any more. I have no problem with yoga...a lot of my guys do it...but like everything else there can be too much of a good thing. You don't want them to become hyper mobile either.
I think it's a multi layered problem. A lot of these coaches are still stuck in the old school mentality where they're using training camp to "get guys in shape"...the only problem is these guys already come in in great shape. They've been sprinting and conditioning all off season, they've been running routes multiple times a week, etc plus lifting. They come in for the most part primed and ready to go...and then you put them into over drive in conditions that in no way mimic game conditions. Thats just a recipe for disaster. Add into the fact that a lot of these guys, in my opinion, just lift too many damn weights. You look at some of the stuff these guys are doing it's just meat head bullshit. Case in point...JJ Watt is done for the year, and maybe more because he rushed himself back and felt the need to film himself doing dumb ass shit in the weight room so he could show everyone how hard he was working to come back. Thats a dumb meat head mentality. I think a large portion of the population just doesn't understand how taxing sprint work is on the body, how taxing jumps are on the body. Add in all the injuries these guys incur and the effects that has on their alignment...it's amazing even more guys aren't hurt.
So to sum my rant up...yeah...I think they could all use more flexibility and mobility work. I think more of them should take advantage of massage as a means of recovery. I think they should be more mindful of what they need in regards to what is going to keep them on the field, meaning do they need more strength work(Which the answer is probably no because they wouldn't be in the league if they were overly weak)? Do I need more speed(Who doesn't? And by the way, speed work will influence strength immensely)? Sorry if that was all over the place.
But it wasn't or at least not to me. It answered some of my questions.
Maybe this is why there are problems. Pace hires a high tech training staff who conditions players a certain way and then "old school" Foxy gets them in camp or OTAs and frustrates all of this carefully prepared training by the way he runs his practices.
Guys get hurt, trainers and med staff say if you play him it'll only get worse, they sit out, Fox fumes but can't do anything about if because Pace runs that part of the program and he can't over rule the medical staff. I've heard some frustration and anger in his comment at times when he discusses injuries.
In his hey day the shoot the guys up and they practice and play but they can't do that as freely any longer or at least the Bears won't. There's some good logic to connect to what you posted butkus, thanks.
LOL...yeah...the cowboys totally revamped their warm ups when they figured out the stuff they were doing from 1975 didn't work any more. I have no problem with yoga...a lot of my guys do it...but like everything else there can be too much of a good thing. You don't want them to become hyper mobile either.
I think it's a multi layered problem. A lot of these coaches are still stuck in the old school mentality where they're using training camp to "get guys in shape"...the only problem is these guys already come in in great shape. They've been sprinting and conditioning all off season, they've been running routes multiple times a week, etc plus lifting. They come in for the most part primed and ready to go...and then you put them into over drive in conditions that in no way mimic game conditions. Thats just a recipe for disaster. Add into the fact that a lot of these guys, in my opinion, just lift too many damn weights. You look at some of the stuff these guys are doing it's just meat head bullshit. Case in point...JJ Watt is done for the year, and maybe more because he rushed himself back and felt the need to film himself doing dumb ass shit in the weight room so he could show everyone how hard he was working to come back. Thats a dumb meat head mentality. I think a large portion of the population just doesn't understand how taxing sprint work is on the body, how taxing jumps are on the body. Add in all the injuries these guys incur and the effects that has on their alignment...it's amazing even more guys aren't hurt.
So to sum my rant up...yeah...I think they could all use more flexibility and mobility work. I think more of them should take advantage of massage as a means of recovery. I think they should be more mindful of what they need in regards to what is going to keep them on the field, meaning do they need more strength work(Which the answer is probably no because they wouldn't be in the league if they were overly weak)? Do I need more speed(Who doesn't? And by the way, speed work will influence strength immensely)? Sorry if that was all over the place.
But it wasn't or at least not to me. It answered some of my questions.
Maybe this is why there are problems. Pace hires a high tech training staff who conditions players a certain way and then "old school" Foxy gets them in camp or OTAs and frustrates all of this carefully prepared training by the way he runs his practices.
Guys get hurt, trainers and med staff say if you play him it'll only get worse, they sit out, Fox fumes but can't do anything about if because Pace runs that part of the program and he can't over rule the medical staff. I've heard some frustration and anger in his comment at times when he discusses injuries.
In his hey day the shoot the guys up and they practice and play but they can't do that as freely any longer or at least the Bears won't. There's some good logic to connect to what you posted butkus, thanks.
Thanks brotha. As an illustration of the example you provided, I know the performance coach in Arizona quite well. He's about good as they get in the industry. He monitors players output levels to make sure they are within their baseline and if their output gets to high he tries to find a way to reduce their loads. Anyway, one day in practice he notices most of the teams outputs are getting off the charts so he goes up to Arians and asks about the intensity level of the next segment of practice. Arians tells him it's going to be normal intensity so the coach asks him if they can back it down and reduce the intensity because the outputs of the guys are getting way up there. Arians looks at him and then matter of factly says "no". LOL...this is one of the best guys in the field, who's been around forever, and he's telling you in order to avoid injury you need to reduce the intensity in the next portion of practice and you just dismiss him!
I'm sure this type of thing goes on in Chicago as well.
But it wasn't or at least not to me. It answered some of my questions.
Maybe this is why there are problems. Pace hires a high tech training staff who conditions players a certain way and then "old school" Foxy gets them in camp or OTAs and frustrates all of this carefully prepared training by the way he runs his practices.
Guys get hurt, trainers and med staff say if you play him it'll only get worse, they sit out, Fox fumes but can't do anything about if because Pace runs that part of the program and he can't over rule the medical staff. I've heard some frustration and anger in his comment at times when he discusses injuries.
In his hey day the shoot the guys up and they practice and play but they can't do that as freely any longer or at least the Bears won't. There's some good logic to connect to what you posted butkus, thanks.
Thanks brotha. As an illustration of the example you provided, I know the performance coach in Arizona quite well. He's about good as they get in the industry. He monitors players output levels to make sure they are within their baseline and if their output gets to high he tries to find a way to reduce their loads. Anyway, one day in practice he notices most of the teams outputs are getting off the charts so he goes up to Arians and asks about the intensity level of the next segment of practice. Arians tells him it's going to be normal intensity so the coach asks him if they can back it down and reduce the intensity because the outputs of the guys are getting way up there. Arians looks at him and then matter of factly says "no". LOL...this is one of the best guys in the field, who's been around forever, and he's telling you in order to avoid injury you need to reduce the intensity in the next portion of practice and you just dismiss him!
I'm sure this type of thing goes on in Chicago as well.
So I guess these younger NCAA coaches that I thought was baby'n the players a bit might just in fact be onto something. I imagine the facilities in the Universities are much more prepared for injuries then NFL teams? How do they compare when you look at how technically advanced they are?
Thanks brotha. As an illustration of the example you provided, I know the performance coach in Arizona quite well. He's about good as they get in the industry. He monitors players output levels to make sure they are within their baseline and if their output gets to high he tries to find a way to reduce their loads. Anyway, one day in practice he notices most of the teams outputs are getting off the charts so he goes up to Arians and asks about the intensity level of the next segment of practice. Arians tells him it's going to be normal intensity so the coach asks him if they can back it down and reduce the intensity because the outputs of the guys are getting way up there. Arians looks at him and then matter of factly says "no". LOL...this is one of the best guys in the field, who's been around forever, and he's telling you in order to avoid injury you need to reduce the intensity in the next portion of practice and you just dismiss him!
I'm sure this type of thing goes on in Chicago as well.
So I guess these younger NCAA coaches that I thought was baby'n the players a bit might just in fact be onto something. I imagine the facilities in the Universities are much more prepared for injuries then NFL teams? How do they compare when you look at how technically advanced they are?
Depends on the college really. There are some colleges that I think are god awful and the strength coaches are awful, but because the coach recruits absolute genetic studs they are able to over come the shitty programming they're put through. I know it seems counter intuitive...but these guys really don't need to be doing as much as they're doing at the intensity level they're doing it at during the week. Take Alshon for instance...when is he getting hurt the most? Games or practice? Practice, right? You don't constantly redline an engine otherwise it's gonna break down. Same goes for these guys...and the game represents so much stress and intensity...there has to be a load reduction some where. The best ability is availability...and these coaches need to figure out how to keep their best players on the field. It's not 1975 anymore.
So I guess these younger NCAA coaches that I thought was baby'n the players a bit might just in fact be onto something. I imagine the facilities in the Universities are much more prepared for injuries then NFL teams? How do they compare when you look at how technically advanced they are?
Depends on the college really. There are some colleges that I think are god awful and the strength coaches are awful, but because the coach recruits absolute genetic studs they are able to over come the shitty programming they're put through. I know it seems counter intuitive...but these guys really don't need to be doing as much as they're doing at the intensity level they're doing it at during the week. Take Alshon for instance...when is he getting hurt the most? Games or practice? Practice, right? You don't constantly redline an engine otherwise it's gonna break down. Same goes for these guys...and the game represents so much stress and intensity...there has to be a load reduction some where. The best ability is availability...and these coaches need to figure out how to keep their best players on the field. It's not 1975 anymore.
This is what my thinking was based on reading alot of your posts. I do not understand with the sizes and speeds of these kids how come these Owners, and the NFL not do a little bit more research on how to save a few kids from potential life long injuries. I mean it is hitting them directly in the pockets with potential loss revenues. A kid can play a few more years, break a few more records, and sell more jerseys...Is it just a pride thing? These old coaches get butt hurt if told to lay off a bit? It is simple really... The stars play more due to less stress, Revenues grow because of a couple possible playoff games. Everyone wins.... It must drive Trainers and Physiotherapists nuts when this shiite happens all the time.