Its interesting to me to read everyone's opinions and try and put them together.
We want a HC who has experience and isn't necessarily an OFF guy. He has to have called plays unless he worked for Cleveland which disqualifies you forever (unless you are Belichick apparently because nothing Belichick did in Cleveland is relevant). But he can't be a loser, so just successful winning candidates. Guys who worked with good QBs are disqualified because how much could they really have improved a good QB anyway while guys who worked with bad QBs are disqualified because they didn't develop any. If you worked in New England you are out, if your team made it to the playoffs and then lost because your defense gave up three straight long scoring drive to lose you are out. If the HC you worked for actually called the plays for either side of the ball and you didn't you are out.
Know who fits all these qualifications? Fox. Went to 2 SBs and was over .500 as a HC. That's experience and success. Never worked in Cleveland. Wpn playoff games with Tebow/Manning/Delhomme--that covers the range from terrible (Tebow) to just a guy (Delhomme) to HOF (Manning). Used to be a DC so he has called plays and was able to sign good assistants (Gase/Fangio). He was respected by his players who are sad to see him fired.
Is it too late to reconsider?
Wow, haven't watched that movie in years!! I should make my kids watch it.
Do the Bears currently have any other requests for interviews out there? If not I think that tells us we should be expecting a choice relatively soon.
I’m confused. Correct me if I’m wrong—can you hire a new HC if that guy is still with another team that’s still alive in the playoffs? Thought you had to wait.
Flip and Shurmer are still in playoffs, Nagy isn’t. Though I expect Flip will be out this weekend.
Even that gets called into question unless it has some specific target. How do we quantify "successful".
Was Loggains capable of being a better play caller if he hadn't been hamstrung by Focks for two years?
What about an OC or even a HC like Trestman who in 2013 had us as the #2 ranked offense but we still only won 8 games and missed the playoffs? Baltimore then hires him as their OC/Play Caller, he falls flat on his doofus and he's back in the CFL again.
Doesn't Pederson call the offense in Philly anyway which means not even Reich his OC calls plays and in KC Reid was doing it right up until the last few games of the season.
I'm gonna stick with the thinking that just because someone has not done it all that much of at all it doesn't mean they aren't just as capable of doing it as the guy who is but we both know teams have a pecking order for such stuff. In both Philly and KC that pecking order seems to be the HC called them. That makes both DeFilippo and Nagy questionable if we disqualify them only because of that and I won't do that.
Here's a better way to view it and IMHO this is exactly what you're asking for in what I bold faced. He knows the game and can coach it. Whether or not he's been given that opportunity to show it via calling plays in Philly is not his choice. Pederson took it on has HC and if Pace has that concern he could ask Pederson for his opinion.
"DeFilippo is a quarterback guy. He brings great energy. He has a better resume than his offensive coordinator in Philadelphia and clearly has knowledge of X’s and O’s."
IF Loggains could successfully move the ball on a consistent basis and make adjustments to opposing defenses and still continue to move the ball, yes, I would be ok with him.
The problem is I do not know how much of the crap we saw was him and how much was Fox. I know at least a part of it was Fox, but no way do I gamble on Loggains unless I know for sure what he can do. In other words, see how he calls plays to see how he understands who he has to work with, how best to use them, what the defense is doing to try to stop them, how he adjusts to that, etc. To me, that is what I want in an OC. Except in our case, I also want the ability to develop a young QB.
And that was my point about Loggains and also part of my point about those who appear to have little experience as play callers. We lack the hard data to make a call and we can't talk to their HCs and others about them so we have to depend on what we find in print and on Pace to know the whole story on them.
Log didn't spend any time at all unemployed. Gase said come on down and I do respect Gase enough to feel he would not have jumped on Loggains if he was a total Bozo. He had a lot to do with correcting many of Cutler's flaws. We did see some signs of decent play calling but it was never consistent.
I've never been interested in keeping Loggains once we hired a new HC and an OC/QB guy. But I also won't disqualify an otherwise qualified HC prospect only because he wasn't calling plays recently. These guys have successfully coached QBs and made them better and they been in on designing schemes and game plans too.
Play calling is part art and part science and it's all about what you posted. It would be nice if we had our choice of a half dozen guys who all have long term track records as top play callers but that isn't the case. We have one and maybe two but even number two has been doing it with Tom Brady as his QB. That's quite an advantage. Shurmur turned a joke from LA into a viable NFL QB so on that basis alone he'd be my pick above McDipshit.
But then we also have to look at the bigger picture. A HC has already been above the pay grade of both Shurmur and McD so where does that leave us if we say no past failures as HCs. Some want to give McD a pass for Denver and believe he's changed. Well, he wasn't just a failure here he was a fucking disaster of biblical proportions. IMHO he should stay in NE where he can take over for BB because eventually I think even if he's hired somewhere now that's where he'll end up anyway. He fits NE better than anywhere else. JMHO
Do the Bears currently have any other requests for interviews out there? If not I think that tells us we should be expecting a choice relatively soon.
I’m confused. Correct me if I’m wrong—can you hire a new HC if that guy is still with another team that’s still alive in the playoffs? Thought you had to wait.
Flip and Shurmer are still in playoffs, Nagy isn’t. Though I expect Flip will be out this weekend.
They can't officially sign a contract but an agreement in principal can be reached if both sides are willing.
My hope is that they could bring Flip in as OC, but not sure that is even possible. And he still has never called any plays.
I think it's possible but then if he does well we risk a redux of the Gase deal where he's one and done.
That wouldn't be huge if say Shurmur was HC but would DeFilippo even come onboard then? I mean it's possible that's an angle Pace is working on but most of the current scuttlebutt says no. DeFilippo is coming as a HC not an OC if he comes at all.
Its interesting to me to read everyone's opinions and try and put them together.
We want a HC who has experience and isn't necessarily an OFF guy. He has to have called plays unless he worked for Cleveland which disqualifies you forever (unless you are Belichick apparently because nothing Belichick did in Cleveland is relevant). But he can't be a loser, so just successful winning candidates. Guys who worked with good QBs are disqualified because how much could they really have improved a good QB anyway while guys who worked with bad QBs are disqualified because they didn't develop any. If you worked in New England you are out, if your team made it to the playoffs and then lost because your defense gave up three straight long scoring drive to lose you are out. If the HC you worked for actually called the plays for either side of the ball and you didn't you are out.
Know who fits all these qualifications? Fox. Went to 2 SBs and was over .500 as a HC. That's experience and success. Never worked in Cleveland. Wpn playoff games with Tebow/Manning/Delhomme--that covers the range from terrible (Tebow) to just a guy (Delhomme) to HOF (Manning). Used to be a DC so he has called plays and was able to sign good assistants (Gase/Fangio). He was respected by his players who are sad to see him fired.
Is it too late to reconsider?
This scene has scarred me for life. My r/l name is in fact Shane. Do you know how many people over my 46 years has said this too me....OMFG!!!! I look forward to the meme makers now on this site..COME ON !!!!! GIF ME!!!!! COME AT ME BRO?!?! DO YOU EVEN LIFT BRO?
Do the Bears currently have any other requests for interviews out there? If not I think that tells us we should be expecting a choice relatively soon.
I’m confused. Correct me if I’m wrong—can you hire a new HC if that guy is still with another team that’s still alive in the playoffs? Thought you had to wait.
Flip and Shurmer are still in playoffs, Nagy isn’t. Though I expect Flip will be out this weekend.
I'm not sure either. I'd imagine you could, but that person obviously couldn't start the job till they were done coaching. Or they could have an agreement in place and not announce it till they were done coaching. I'd think if the goal is to keep Fangio a decision has to be made prior to Tuesday when his deal is up.
This scene has scarred me for life. My r/l name is in fact Shane. Do you know how many people over my 46 years has said this too me....OMFG!!!! I look forward to the meme makers now on this site..COME ON !!!!! GIF ME!!!!! COME AT ME BRO?!?! DO YOU EVEN LIFT BRO?
Sorry Bob. Had no way of knowing that. It is kinda cliche isn't it but it fit so well with what BB posted. LOL
