It's official: Fox is gone

GrizzlyBear
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It's official: Fox is gone Jan 2, 2018 17:04:22 GMT -6 JABF, butkus3595, and 1 more like this

Post by GrizzlyBear on Jan 2, 2018 17:04:22 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2018 19:27:58 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

No...you don't, but to go down your list:

Belichick was a receivers coach and a special teams coach before becoming a DC
Carroll's first job in coaching was as a receivers coach
Tomlin also started out as a receivers coach
Cowher started out as a special teams coach
Harbaugh was a running backs and tight ends coach initially
Zimmer is the only one who only coached defense his whole career

What those guys also were able to do is hire good offensive coaches...and thats the key.

And I don't have a problem w/ that at all, brother.

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GrizzlyBear
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It's official: Fox is gone Jan 2, 2018 17:26:35 GMT -6 Whisky Beer Bob likes this

Post by GrizzlyBear on Jan 2, 2018 17:26:35 GMT -6

Jan 1, 2018 19:32:34 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

You keep saying this. This franchise needs someone who knows how to coach! Toughness has nothing to do with it.

My point is that real nice guys rarely make it in the NFL. You either need a calm but very strict HC like BB who's also crazy smart like a Fox (no pun intended) or you hire tough guys like Ditka/Coughlin/Tomlin/Jim Harbaugh (even Sean Payton can be nasty sometimes) who can actually make something happen inside the locker room.

As much as I liked Lovie, he was just too nice and that doesn't really work in the league. Trestman was nice and soft - just horrible. And Fox was conservative and kinda boring but also too nice to the players. That didn't work out either.

Just my two cents.

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Last Edit: Jan 2, 2018 17:31:54 GMT -6 by GrizzlyBear

butkus3595
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It's official: Fox is gone Jan 2, 2018 20:05:04 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by butkus3595 on Jan 2, 2018 20:05:04 GMT -6

Jan 2, 2018 17:26:35 GMT -6 GrizzlyBear said:

Jan 1, 2018 19:32:34 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

You keep saying this. This franchise needs someone who knows how to coach! Toughness has nothing to do with it.

My point is that real nice guys rarely make it in the NFL. You either need a calm but very strict HC like BB who's also crazy smart like a Fox (no pun intended) or you hire tough guys like Ditka/Coughlin/Tomlin/Jim Harbaugh (even Sean Payton can be nasty sometimes) who can actually make something happen inside the locker room.

As much as I liked Lovie, he was just too nice and that doesn't really work in the league. Trestman was nice and soft - just horrible. And Fox was conservative and kinda boring but also too nice to the players. That didn't work out either.

Just my two cents.

Just cause a player likes playing for a coach doesn't mean they aren't tough. Coughlin was tough...every giant I ever talked to who played for him loves the guy. Tomlin is as smart as they come as well. You talk to any of his guys and ask what their meetings are like with him...he's got every positions responsibilities down. Lovies problem wasn't that he was too nice, he may not have been a yeller, but player after player always talked about how you didn't want to be the one to disappoint him or screw up...his problem was that he didn't care about offense and he never adjusted his defense to keep up with the league.

Again...it comes down to being able to COACH. Everyone of those guys you mentioned are EXCELLENT COACHES. If they were just "tough guys" they'd get ignored faster than you could blink. In fact Coughlin was in danger of that happening in NY in the beginning and he had to adjust a bit.

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It's official: Fox is gone Jan 2, 2018 20:42:22 GMT -6 JABF, Whisky Beer Bob, and 1 more like this

Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 20:42:22 GMT -6

Jan 2, 2018 20:05:04 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Jan 2, 2018 17:26:35 GMT -6 GrizzlyBear said:

My point is that real nice guys rarely make it in the NFL. You either need a calm but very strict HC like BB who's also crazy smart like a Fox (no pun intended) or you hire tough guys like Ditka/Coughlin/Tomlin/Jim Harbaugh (even Sean Payton can be nasty sometimes) who can actually make something happen inside the locker room.

As much as I liked Lovie, he was just too nice and that doesn't really work in the league. Trestman was nice and soft - just horrible. And Fox was conservative and kinda boring but also too nice to the players. That didn't work out either.

Just my two cents.

Just cause a player likes playing for a coach doesn't mean they aren't tough. Coughlin was tough...every giant I ever talked to who played for him loves the guy. Tomlin is as smart as they come as well. You talk to any of his guys and ask what their meetings are like with him...he's got every positions responsibilities down. Lovies problem wasn't that he was too nice, he may not have been a yeller, but player after player always talked about how you didn't want to be the one to disappoint him or screw up...his problem was that he didn't care about offense and he never adjusted his defense to keep up with the league.

Again...it comes down to being able to COACH. Everyone of those guys you mentioned are EXCELLENT COACHES. If they were just "tough guys" they'd get ignored faster than you could blink. In fact Coughlin was in danger of that happening in NY in the beginning and he had to adjust a bit.

I agree.

IMO, the requirements are

1. Know football. I mean REALLY know football
2. Be able to lead and inspire men (with whatever technique works for them)
3. Be able to teach
4. Be a student of the game. This is one level above KNOWING the game. It means watching what is happening in the league with different teams and evolving with the new
5. Be able to think on your feet and make real time adjustments
6. Understand strategy and being able to use the clock and field position accordingly
7. Be able to attract top coordinators in the league

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butkus3595
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It's official: Fox is gone Jan 3, 2018 8:13:58 GMT -6 Whisky Beer Bob likes this

Post by butkus3595 on Jan 3, 2018 8:13:58 GMT -6

Jan 2, 2018 20:42:22 GMT -6 @bearsinhouston said:

Jan 2, 2018 20:05:04 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Just cause a player likes playing for a coach doesn't mean they aren't tough. Coughlin was tough...every giant I ever talked to who played for him loves the guy. Tomlin is as smart as they come as well. You talk to any of his guys and ask what their meetings are like with him...he's got every positions responsibilities down. Lovies problem wasn't that he was too nice, he may not have been a yeller, but player after player always talked about how you didn't want to be the one to disappoint him or screw up...his problem was that he didn't care about offense and he never adjusted his defense to keep up with the league.

Again...it comes down to being able to COACH. Everyone of those guys you mentioned are EXCELLENT COACHES. If they were just "tough guys" they'd get ignored faster than you could blink. In fact Coughlin was in danger of that happening in NY in the beginning and he had to adjust a bit.

I agree.

IMO, the requirements are

1. Know football. I mean REALLY know football
2. Be able to lead and inspire men (with whatever technique works for them)
3. Be able to teach
4. Be a student of the game. This is one level above KNOWING the game. It means watching what is happening in the league with different teams and evolving with the new
5. Be able to think on your feet and make real time adjustments
6. Understand strategy and being able to use the clock and field position accordingly
7. Be able to attract top coordinators in the league

I agree with all of that. Just to go back to Tomlin, his first meeting with players on Wednesdays involves him going through each play of the game with the whole team. He goes over checks that were made or should have been made, adjustments, responsibilities...and he quizzes guys...ON ALL THREE PHASES. He knows everything there is to know about whats happening during the game with every phase of the team...offense, defense and special teams...at EVERY position. I read an article where he was reminding Mike Pouncey about what kind of kick step he needed to take against a certain d-lineman in certain protections because the d-lineman had a particular technique he liked to use in certain situations....and this guy never coached o-line a day in his life. They say he'll sit down at guys lockers and talk with them, sit with them at lunch, etc. He displays a lot of great leadership traits.

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Last Edit: Jan 3, 2018 8:14:19 GMT -6 by butkus3595

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Post by GrizzlyBear on Jan 2, 2018 17:04:22 GMT -6

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Post by butkus3595 on Jan 3, 2018 8:13:58 GMT -6