If Pace agreed to those terms (and I don’t doubt it’s very possible it played out that way) then he owns the consequences as well. Pace doesn’t get a pass for that, sorry.
Put it this way: Ryan Pace agreed to Fox by not taking a stand for what he believed in (replacing him last offseason).
His other errors in judgment are entirely his own. The roster is mostly his.
I am a realist. I want the job, but I have to do it in a way that I am not really happy about. So at that point, I am going to say no. But then they tell me that if their way does not work, I will have time to do it my way. Guess what? I jump on that one. Why is that my fault. I didn't make the decision. They did and they told me I would not be held accountable. If I tell them to **** themselves, I am not a GM. This way I train on their dime and after I finally learn the ropes it's finally my turn to make decisions. Sorry, but I'm all over that one.
Ok, BIH, how many more passes do you want to give Pace?
He drafted his QB. He’s about to assemble his coaching staff. He’s going to have plenty of cap space and yet another set of draft picks in the top 10 of each round (His 3rd such set).
What benchmarks next year does he need to meet to justify continuing his employment?
I am a realist. I want the job, but I have to do it in a way that I am not really happy about. So at that point, I am going to say no. But then they tell me that if their way does not work, I will have time to do it my way. Guess what? I jump on that one. Why is that my fault. I didn't make the decision. They did and they told me I would not be held accountable. If I tell them to **** themselves, I am not a GM. This way I train on their dime and after I finally learn the ropes it's finally my turn to make decisions. Sorry, but I'm all over that one.
Ok, BIH, how many more passes do you want to give Pace?
He drafted his QB. He’s about to assemble his coaching staff. He’s going to have plenty of cap space and yet another set of draft picks in the top 10 of each round (His 3rd such set).
What benchmarks next year does he need to meet to justify continuing his employment?
How do you know that he didn't go to George and Teddy and told them that Fox just plain was not working and it was not going to work with him and they in turn told him that they would not eat the rest of two years. "Ryan, give it this year to see if he can turn it around. If it doesn't work, you will get your choice of whoever you want and time to make it work with him."
It could be that was the way he knew he could finally get rid of Fox AND at the same time get more autonomy from ownership.
Like I said..... We know Fox is bad. We think Fox will be gone. All the rest is conjecture on everyones part. Once Fox is gone, we will all see just how good or bad Pace is.
I am still thinking good, but I am more open to bad than I have been. Right now I just want to see Fox gone and to see what moves Pace makes.
When you don't own the company, but still like being there, you sometimes have to let people fall on their sword to make a point. Not sure that is what is happening, but it sure does look like wonderful manipulation if in fact Pace has been playing it this way.
If Pace agreed to those terms (and I don’t doubt it’s very possible it played out that way) then he owns the consequences as well. Pace doesn’t get a pass for that, sorry.
Put it this way: Ryan Pace agreed to Fox by not taking a stand for what he believed in (replacing him last offseason).
His other errors in judgment are entirely his own. The roster is mostly his.
But what's not taken into account here is what exactly does Pace's contract permit him to do? We really don't know.
If I was to take a wild guess I'd say he has full discretion over player personnel but maybe not over coaching personnel since a HCs contract is 100% guaranteed. Pace is only the GM. Phillips out ranks him and so does GMcC. It's entirely possible he couldn't make that decision without their OK. I mean there all kinds of indicators to just that.
He can't just up and walk away from his job either like some of us can. He has a contract. He could try to get himself fired I suppose but since that would be career suicide it wouldn't be a smart move. He could very well have "taken a stand" but without the contractual authority to carry it out he's dead in the water and Fox gets another year.
MP I've been in situation like that before where I bucked both of my superiors who were the President and VP of the company. Despite my authority as Sr. Compliance Officer I lost the vote 2-1 and I had to abide by it by the terms of my employment agreement. When you're 3rd in command you don't always get your way even when you know you're right.
I am a realist. I want the job, but I have to do it in a way that I am not really happy about. So at that point, I am going to say no. But then they tell me that if their way does not work, I will have time to do it my way. Guess what? I jump on that one. Why is that my fault. I didn't make the decision. They did and they told me I would not be held accountable. If I tell them to **** themselves, I am not a GM. This way I train on their dime and after I finally learn the ropes it's finally my turn to make decisions. Sorry, but I'm all over that one.
Ok, BIH, how many more passes do you want to give Pace?
He drafted his QB. He’s about to assemble his coaching staff. He’s going to have plenty of cap space and yet another set of draft picks in the top 10 of each round (His 3rd such set).
What benchmarks next year does he need to meet to justify continuing his employment?
I'll give my own opinion on this and say a winning season.
A new coaching staff with an entirely new offense (thank God) may struggle to make the playoffs unless we find a way to beat up on the NFCN instead of the reverse. But asking for a 9-10 win season isn't pushing it. Even if we fall short but overall the play on game day is better both on the field and on the sidelines then we're finally floating the boat again.
I'd say it has to be honest measurable improvement not the imaginary kind Focks has been trying to pipe up our asses for the last three years. It means winning not just getting close and it also means he's found a HC who isn't being out schemed and out coached every damn game. Something that finishes all of this embarrassment for his team as well.
Ok, BIH, how many more passes do you want to give Pace?
He drafted his QB. He’s about to assemble his coaching staff. He’s going to have plenty of cap space and yet another set of draft picks in the top 10 of each round (His 3rd such set).
What benchmarks next year does he need to meet to justify continuing his employment?
I'll give my own opinion on this and say a winning season.
A new coaching staff with an entirely new offense (thank God) may struggle to make the playoffs unless we find a way to beat up on the NFCN instead of the reverse. But asking for a 9-10 win season isn't pushing it. Even if we fall short but overall the play on game day is better both on the field and on the sidelines then we're finally floating the boat again.
I'd say it has to be honest measurable improvement not the imaginary kind Focks has been trying to pipe up our asses for the last three years. It means winning not just getting close and it also means he's found a HC who isn't being out schemed and out coached every damn game. Something that finishes all of this embarrassment for his team as well.
Soul, IMO it would take more than that. A winning season does not a make a winning team. Lovie was fired after a 10 win season. You need more than a winning season. You need to look like you are a winning team. Sometimes Lovies teams barely won. But even more important, you can't have risen to your level of competence is and stall. Unless your level of competence is winning multiple SBs. It was apparent that Lovie was not able to hit that mark. The arrow had risen as much as it was going to.
Same with Fox. He can't win a SB with his offensive philosophy in this day and age. I never expected him to. I hoped he would bring in good coordinators and right the ship that Trestman/Emery tilted.
For the most part he did that. But on his way to do that, he also exposed his incompetence. And I have to say that I am so thankful he did. This could have been another 10 year Lovie deal. Where they fool management into thinking they CAN win a SB when they really can't and then you have to endure more years of the same until Teddy releases the purse strings. I was super afraid he would win enough games to keep him on board, but he is coming apart at the seams and at this point I don;t think they keep him even with 3 more wins (which I think is his cap).
I'll give my own opinion on this and say a winning season.
A new coaching staff with an entirely new offense (thank God) may struggle to make the playoffs unless we find a way to beat up on the NFCN instead of the reverse. But asking for a 9-10 win season isn't pushing it. Even if we fall short but overall the play on game day is better both on the field and on the sidelines then we're finally floating the boat again.
I'd say it has to be honest measurable improvement not the imaginary kind Focks has been trying to pipe up our asses for the last three years. It means winning not just getting close and it also means he's found a HC who isn't being out schemed and out coached every damn game. Something that finishes all of this embarrassment for his team as well.
Soul, IMO it would take more than that. A winning season does not a make a winning team. Lovie was fired after a 10 win season. You need more than a winning season. You need to look like you are a winning team. Sometimes Lovies teams barely won. But even more important, you can't have risen to your level of competence is and stall. Unless your level of competence is winning multiple SBs. It was apparent that Lovie was not able to hit that mark. The arrow had risen as much as it was going to.
Same with Fox. He can't win a SB with his offensive philosophy in this day and age. I never expected him to. I hoped he would bring in good coordinators and right the ship that Trestman/Emery tilted.
For the most part he did that. But on his way to do that, he also exposed his incompetence. And I have to say that I am so thankful he did. This could have been another 10 year Lovie deal. Where they fool management into thinking they CAN win a SB when they really can't and then you have to endure more years of the same until Teddy releases the purse strings. I was super afraid he would win enough games to keep him on board, but he is coming apart at the seams and at this point I don;t think they keep him even with 3 more wins (which I think is his cap).
I actually think it's the less specific stuff I want to see. So to me it's more about what I highlighted.
You and me and a lot of the others have watched enough football to know just from watching a player seems to have a clue. I think the same can be said for coaches and basically an entire team. As it stands this entire team doesn't "get it" and that's as much on the coaches as the players.
So I think we agree you just put it better than I did.
I want to watch a game and see a team play smart efficient football again. If they can ALL do that. From the top to the bottom of the organization we'll win some games. Most of the basic talent is there. But rather than go into specifics I'm just gonna say I think I'll know it when I see it.
I'll give my own opinion on this and say a winning season.
A new coaching staff with an entirely new offense (thank God) may struggle to make the playoffs unless we find a way to beat up on the NFCN instead of the reverse. But asking for a 9-10 win season isn't pushing it. Even if we fall short but overall the play on game day is better both on the field and on the sidelines then we're finally floating the boat again.
I'd say it has to be honest measurable improvement not the imaginary kind Focks has been trying to pipe up our asses for the last three years. It means winning not just getting close and it also means he's found a HC who isn't being out schemed and out coached every damn game. Something that finishes all of this embarrassment for his team as well.
Soul, IMO it would take more than that. A winning season does not a make a winning team. Lovie was fired after a 10 win season. You need more than a winning season. You need to look like you are a winning team. Sometimes Lovies teams barely won. But even more important, you can't have risen to your level of competence is and stall. Unless your level of competence is winning multiple SBs. It was apparent that Lovie was not able to hit that mark. The arrow had risen as much as it was going to.
Same with Fox. He can't win a SB with his offensive philosophy in this day and age. I never expected him to. I hoped he would bring in good coordinators and right the ship that Trestman/Emery tilted.
For the most part he did that. But on his way to do that, he also exposed his incompetence. And I have to say that I am so thankful he did. This could have been another 10 year Lovie deal. Where they fool management into thinking they CAN win a SB when they really can't and then you have to endure more years of the same until Teddy releases the purse strings. I was super afraid he would win enough games to keep him on board, but he is coming apart at the seams and at this point I don;t think they keep him even with 3 more wins (which I think is his cap).
Based on the simplest, most objective and definable metrics, I’ll go with what Soul said.
9 wins in 2018 is the minimum expectation for Pace to NOT be on the hot seat. Jesus, he’s about to get his 4th consecutive top-10 pick draft! I erred earlier when I said 3. 2018 will his 4th straight high draft!!! Successful franchise and successful GMs get top-10 drafts maybe once a decade at most.
As for the employment structure thing, I get what you are saying. OTOH, ownership isn’t going “fire itself” as much as we may want them to. SOMEONE has to be held accountable and highest ranking person who isn’t a member of the ownership inner circle is Ryan Pace. He took the job fully knowing what the parameters were and what the hierarchy was. He needs to deliver results and so far, after 3 years, the results have been disappointing.
Post by Whisky Beer Bob on Nov 27, 2017 19:23:18 GMT -6
I wish someone like Emery, or Angelo would come out and say something about the Bears inner circle. Until we hear something other then what we believe, Does it all really matter?
Pace seems like well calculated guy but this season's FA was a complete wash. Could the Inner Circle tell him to go out and get players that are OKed by Foxy? As a GM is he not supposed to get player's that his HC is asking for? Is it possible that Fox gave him a list of players to go after and Pace must say ok? I find it so hard to believe that his drafts are solid for the most part (not every player will work out). and FA is a complete wash. Was Glen-neck a Pace signing or someone Foxy wanted?
Myself, would give Pace 2 years AFTER he hires his own HC. By then you SHOULD see some sort of turn around. Be it by close games or never quit, always in it to win it games.
We know Pace is not about to take a stand and tell the Inner Circle to fack themselves thou we all wish he would. Phillips is not about to step down either. I guess our only hope is the Jerkcircle goes down all together in a fiery crash and there becomes an open bidding for ownership. Horrible is say and I am not wishing this on anyone, but if it was to happen....I would not be upset either. We deserve some sort of punishment for the jerkcircle to endure much like us watching the games they give us.
I know, Anyone on the boards close enough to the circle to claim that McCaskey and Phillips forced themselves on them and made them feel less a man? It is happening to Terry Crews so it could happen to anyone.
Again sorry but as you all know, I am a Canadian and should feel disgusted for even implying this but COME ON MAN!!!!! Tresty can win a stupid CFL championship and Da Bears bearly score 3 facking points!!!!!!
I wish someone like Emery, or Angelo would come out and say something about the Bears inner circle. Until we hear something other then what we believe, Does it all really matter?
Pace seems like well calculated guy but this season's FA was a complete wash. Could the Inner Circle tell him to go out and get players that are OKed by Foxy? As a GM is he not supposed to get player's that his HC is asking for? Is it possible that Fox gave him a list of players to go after and Pace must say ok? I find it so hard to believe that his drafts are solid for the most part (not every player will work out). and FA is a complete wash. Was Glen-neck a Pace signing or someone Foxy wanted?
Myself, would give Pace 2 years AFTER he hires his own HC. By then you SHOULD see some sort of turn around. Be it by close games or never quit, always in it to win it games.
We know Pace is not about to take a stand and tell the Inner Circle to fack themselves thou we all wish he would. Phillips is not about to step down either. I guess our only hope is the Jerkcircle goes down all together in a fiery crash and there becomes an open bidding for ownership. Horrible is say and I am not wishing this on anyone, but if it was to happen....I would not be upset either. We deserve some sort of punishment for the jerkcircle to endure much like us watching the games they give us.
I know, Anyone on the boards close enough to the circle to claim that McCaskey and Phillips forced themselves on them and made them feel less a man? It is happening to Terry Crews so it could happen to anyone.
Again sorry but as you all know, I am a Canadian and should feel disgusted for even implying this but COME ON MAN!!!!! Tresty can win a stupid CFL championship and Da Bears bearly score 3 facking points!!!!!!
All kidding aside, Trestman knows offense. He has a problem with leadership (despite his having written a book on it). We have no one who knows offense. Or knows anything well enough to perform real time adjustments when needed. A journeyman can come up with a game plan. It is a perfect world. The students of the game actually understand things well enough real time to understand what the other guy is doing... understand what the right counter is.... and actually put it into play. We don't have that. And a guy in the league as long as Fox SHOULD have that. He was a bad hire. A poser.