No, but you wouldn't compare him to Tom Brady either. Plus a quick comparison of Winston's stats vs Glennon's show that in most cases they come out about the same. I guess it might also help to say I've never been a huge Winston fan either.
I'm also not a fan of any QB who has almost zero mobility playing behind a Bears OL who struggles with pass protection at times. But overall my point is still the same. If we're gonna move on from Cutler then move up not back or laterally.
We finally have the advantage of being able to do so without significant cap consequences so if we sign or draft a QB who will expose us to that again Pace better be damn sure he's an upgrade or we're right back where we started with enough guaranteed money on the books to make a change nearly impossible.
Any way you look at it given the supply of QBs known to be UFAs and the limitations of the draft prospects and the number of teams wanting a new QB this is not a good time to get into a desperation mode just because your HC has a burr up his butt about Cutler. Elway faced Fox down over much the same deal in Denver and Pace need to take the reins and do the same here. This is not a move he wants to mess up because it could easily cost him his job too. Fox is already a goner as far as I'm concerned. He's not the guy they thought they were getting period.
Couple of things...while no, Winston isn't Brady, he's not a scrub, he's a pretty good QB who is still developing in this league. Two, the Bears o-line doesn't struggle in pass pro...they struggle in pass pro when the QB holds onto the ball too long. Football Outsiders had the Bears ranked 7th in the league in pass protection.
I don't quite get the Glennon thing. Ok, he has some experience and is still young so presumably has potential upside. But how much? If his upside were that high, he probably wouldn't be riding the bench behind a guy Tampa spent the #1 overall pick on to replace him. If he was available for cheap as a vet backup or "bridge" QB, ok. But he isn't that either and is going to get the type of money that is way above typical backup pay. So why pay him that is he clearly isn't "the guy" going forward?
All of this would be my point as well mp. TB offered him $8 mil to stay around as Winston's #2. That's a very generous offer for backup QB and I think for them he may well have that kind of value. His career stats are little different from Winston's so TB has two mid level starters if he stays. That's not a bad place to be in these days.
But another team is not likely get him right now for $8 mil. So if we're looking at paying him the same kind of money we're paying Cutler except with a longer term deal with significant guaranteed money why would we do that if no one believes he's our franchise QB of the future. He obviously wasn't in TB.
I'm not buying into the rumors that are floating around because they change daily. Every Tom, Dick, Ian, and Adam are competing to break some story and half it is pure speculation. If Pace is solidly convinced his guy is in this draft he'd be far better off to draft him then kick the can with Glennon when we can already do that with Cutler with less risk.
$8M is VERY generous for a backup QB role as you said. $2-6M is more typical. And reportedly Glennon wants $10M+. We disagree on the Cutler thing as I think that ship has clearly sailed and they're moving on from JC no matter what.
I want Garoppolo and think he is the best combo of upside and readiness but I doubt it will happen as I'm pretty sure Cleveland will end up coming to terms for him involving their #12 pick. So that leaves the draft. Pace needs to get his guy in the 1st round (either at #3 or ideally with a small trade down). It wouldn't be a bad idea to duplicate what Washington did a few years back with RG3 and Cousins--draft a QB in 1 and another in round 4 where we have 2 picks. Add in Shaw and roll with 3 young guys who have untapped potential. If Pace desperately wants a "vet" in the mix, the sign McCown to a cheap non-guaranteed contract (he won't cost much) as a backup/mentor/de-facto coach. If the young guys look promising in August, cut McCown loose. If they look rough, then JM can be a #2-#3.
All of this would be my point as well mp. TB offered him $8 mil to stay around as Winston's #2. That's a very generous offer for backup QB and I think for them he may well have that kind of value. His career stats are little different from Winston's so TB has two mid level starters if he stays. That's not a bad place to be in these days.
But another team is not likely get him right now for $8 mil. So if we're looking at paying him the same kind of money we're paying Cutler except with a longer term deal with significant guaranteed money why would we do that if no one believes he's our franchise QB of the future. He obviously wasn't in TB.
I'm not buying into the rumors that are floating around because they change daily. Every Tom, Dick, Ian, and Adam are competing to break some story and half it is pure speculation. If Pace is solidly convinced his guy is in this draft he'd be far better off to draft him then kick the can with Glennon when we can already do that with Cutler with less risk.
$8M is VERY generous for a backup QB role as you said. $2-6M is more typical. And reportedly Glennon wants $10M+. We disagree on the Cutler thing as I think that ship has clearly sailed and they're moving on from JC no matter what.
I want Garoppolo and think he is the best combo of upside and readiness but I doubt it will happen as I'm pretty sure Cleveland will end up coming to terms for him involving their #12 pick. So that leaves the draft. Pace needs to get his guy in the 1st round (either at #3 or ideally with a small trade down). It wouldn't be a bad idea to duplicate what Washington did a few years back with RG3 and Cousins--draft a QB in 1 and another in round 4 where we have 2 picks. Add in Shaw and roll with 3 young guys who have untapped potential. If Pace desperately wants a "vet" in the mix, the sign McCown to a cheap non-guaranteed contract (he won't cost much) as a backup/mentor/de-facto coach. If the young guys look promising in August, cut McCown loose. If they look rough, then JM can be a #2-#3.
I thought I was the only one that liked McCown. As a BU QB, I think he is a smart choice.
All of this would be my point as well mp. TB offered him $8 mil to stay around as Winston's #2. That's a very generous offer for backup QB and I think for them he may well have that kind of value. His career stats are little different from Winston's so TB has two mid level starters if he stays. That's not a bad place to be in these days.
But another team is not likely get him right now for $8 mil. So if we're looking at paying him the same kind of money we're paying Cutler except with a longer term deal with significant guaranteed money why would we do that if no one believes he's our franchise QB of the future. He obviously wasn't in TB.
I'm not buying into the rumors that are floating around because they change daily. Every Tom, Dick, Ian, and Adam are competing to break some story and half it is pure speculation. If Pace is solidly convinced his guy is in this draft he'd be far better off to draft him then kick the can with Glennon when we can already do that with Cutler with less risk.
$8M is VERY generous for a backup QB role as you said. $2-6M is more typical. And reportedly Glennon wants $10M+. We disagree on the Cutler thing as I think that ship has clearly sailed and they're moving on from JC no matter what.
I want Garoppolo and think he is the best combo of upside and readiness but I doubt it will happen as I'm pretty sure Cleveland will end up coming to terms for him involving their #12 pick. So that leaves the draft. Pace needs to get his guy in the 1st round (either at #3 or ideally with a small trade down). It wouldn't be a bad idea to duplicate what Washington did a few years back with RG3 and Cousins--draft a QB in 1 and another in round 4 where we have 2 picks. Add in Shaw and roll with 3 young guys who have untapped potential. If Pace desperately wants a "vet" in the mix, the sign McCown to a cheap non-guaranteed contract (he won't cost much) as a backup/mentor/de-facto coach. If the young guys look promising in August, cut McCown loose. If they look rough, then JM can be a #2-#3.
I like that a lot MP. And I also liked your point regarding a 2nd QB if one would drop to us later in the draft as BPA. It reminded me a tiny bit about the Patriots taking Jacoby Brissett last year, even though they already had Tom Brady AND Garoppolo. Bill Belichick didn't bat an eye taking Brissett with a fairly high (3rd round) draft pick.
Our problem is that we haven't really tried drafting a solid QB in ages here. I know I'm beating the dead horse, but we haven't even tried to spend a serious draft pick on a QB since 2003 (Grossman). Before that it was 1999 (McNown). Before that it was 1987 (Jim Harbough).
It is almost criminal to ignore the position like we have.
No, but you wouldn't compare him to Tom Brady either. Plus a quick comparison of Winston's stats vs Glennon's show that in most cases they come out about the same. I guess it might also help to say I've never been a huge Winston fan either.
I'm also not a fan of any QB who has almost zero mobility playing behind a Bears OL who struggles with pass protection at times. But overall my point is still the same. If we're gonna move on from Cutler then move up not back or laterally.
We finally have the advantage of being able to do so without significant cap consequences so if we sign or draft a QB who will expose us to that again Pace better be damn sure he's an upgrade or we're right back where we started with enough guaranteed money on the books to make a change nearly impossible.
Any way you look at it given the supply of QBs known to be UFAs and the limitations of the draft prospects and the number of teams wanting a new QB this is not a good time to get into a desperation mode just because your HC has a burr up his butt about Cutler. Elway faced Fox down over much the same deal in Denver and Pace need to take the reins and do the same here. This is not a move he wants to mess up because it could easily cost him his job too. Fox is already a goner as far as I'm concerned. He's not the guy they thought they were getting period.
Couple of things...while no, Winston isn't Brady, he's not a scrub, he's a pretty good QB who is still developing in this league. Two, the Bears o-line doesn't struggle in pass pro...they struggle in pass pro when the QB holds onto the ball too long. Football Outsiders had the Bears ranked 7th in the league in pass protection.
Nope, you don't get to use that one and apply it to Cutler because we already dealt with that early past year when we timed him and he wasn't even getting 2 seconds some passing downs before the rush was on him. So let's not go there OK. It's not a fact. He's in the middle of the pack as far as that goes.
You really want to know which NFL QB holds the ball the longest? Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady isn't all that far behind. I can produce those stats if you really believe I'd lie about it but that's not something I do. Brady gets protection and Rodgers has his escape routes but the Bears offenses over the years have offered little of either to Cutler. You can't honestly say Cutler has ever played behind solid OL for most of his Bears career.
I never said Winston was a scrub but we aren't talking about him. It's Glennon whose now on deck in the Bears sights according to rumors. So far Winston and Glennon rank as middle of the road NFL QBs with stats quite similar to Cutler's. So how would Glennon be an upgrade for us if he isn't good enough to have prevented TB from spending the #1 overall pick on Winston? If TB felt he had so much upside why do that?
Look, this team is going nowhere this year and it's foolish to think otherwise. My preference is simply to not make a major dollar commitment with huge guarantees to yet another QB who isn't your franchise QB of the future. I don't see Glennon in that way so why bother when you can just stick with Cutler for another year without that or sign Hoyer for another year and lose with him instead. The results won't be much different.
If Pace is positive that Watson or Trubisky or Kizer is that guy well then draft him and give him the $30 mil guaranteed deal and keep your fingers crossed he's right. Or if not then waggle that top pick at NE for Garoppolo if he sees him as that guy and maybe he can swing a deal to get a pick back he can use on day two. IMHO if Garoppolo was in this draft he'd probably out rank at least two of the top three and maybe all three.
If none of that works then spend a value pick on a QB later on and decide who your caretaker will be in 2017 while Shaw and the pick vie for the #2 spot then draft one again next years if needed when the QB crops ranks a bit higher. My only ponit is don't force yourself into a desperation move only because Fox and fans are sick of Cutler. Be smart not dumb or led by popular opinion. The idea is to win eventually and what he does with this QB deal now will have a lot to do with that.
$8M is VERY generous for a backup QB role as you said. $2-6M is more typical. And reportedly Glennon wants $10M+. We disagree on the Cutler thing as I think that ship has clearly sailed and they're moving on from JC no matter what.
I want Garoppolo and think he is the best combo of upside and readiness but I doubt it will happen as I'm pretty sure Cleveland will end up coming to terms for him involving their #12 pick. So that leaves the draft. Pace needs to get his guy in the 1st round (either at #3 or ideally with a small trade down). It wouldn't be a bad idea to duplicate what Washington did a few years back with RG3 and Cousins--draft a QB in 1 and another in round 4 where we have 2 picks. Add in Shaw and roll with 3 young guys who have untapped potential. If Pace desperately wants a "vet" in the mix, the sign McCown to a cheap non-guaranteed contract (he won't cost much) as a backup/mentor/de-facto coach. If the young guys look promising in August, cut McCown loose. If they look rough, then JM can be a #2-#3.
I thought I was the only one that liked McCown. As a BU QB, I think he is a smart choice.
Smart and CHEAP (compared to Glennon or Tyrod or even Hoyer). He would also be a good mentor/coach for young QBs. Just a thought. Still have to get 1-2 new, young QBs on the roster in addition to Shaw. Need 4 QBs minimum for TC/PS.
$8M is VERY generous for a backup QB role as you said. $2-6M is more typical. And reportedly Glennon wants $10M+. We disagree on the Cutler thing as I think that ship has clearly sailed and they're moving on from JC no matter what.
I want Garoppolo and think he is the best combo of upside and readiness but I doubt it will happen as I'm pretty sure Cleveland will end up coming to terms for him involving their #12 pick. So that leaves the draft. Pace needs to get his guy in the 1st round (either at #3 or ideally with a small trade down). It wouldn't be a bad idea to duplicate what Washington did a few years back with RG3 and Cousins--draft a QB in 1 and another in round 4 where we have 2 picks. Add in Shaw and roll with 3 young guys who have untapped potential. If Pace desperately wants a "vet" in the mix, the sign McCown to a cheap non-guaranteed contract (he won't cost much) as a backup/mentor/de-facto coach. If the young guys look promising in August, cut McCown loose. If they look rough, then JM can be a #2-#3.
I like that a lot MP. And I also liked your point regarding a 2nd QB if one would drop to us later in the draft as BPA. It reminded me a tiny bit about the Patriots taking Jacoby Brissett last year, even though they already had Tom Brady AND Garoppolo. Bill Belichick didn't bat an eye taking Brissett with a fairly high (3rd round) draft pick.
Our problem is that we haven't really tried drafting a solid QB in ages here. I know I'm beating the dead horse, but we haven't even tried to spend a serious draft pick on a QB since 2003 (Grossman). Before that it was 1999 (McNown). Before that it was 1987 (Jim Harbough).
It is almost criminal to ignore the position like we have.
My overall point is to go ALL IN on getting Pace's "guy" and not clutch-pearls at the cost. It matters little in the long run if the guy you get pans out.
I like that a lot MP. And I also liked your point regarding a 2nd QB if one would drop to us later in the draft as BPA. It reminded me a tiny bit about the Patriots taking Jacoby Brissett last year, even though they already had Tom Brady AND Garoppolo. Bill Belichick didn't bat an eye taking Brissett with a fairly high (3rd round) draft pick.
Our problem is that we haven't really tried drafting a solid QB in ages here. I know I'm beating the dead horse, but we haven't even tried to spend a serious draft pick on a QB since 2003 (Grossman). Before that it was 1999 (McNown). Before that it was 1987 (Jim Harbough).
It is almost criminal to ignore the position like we have.
My overall point is to go ALL IN on getting Pace's "guy" and not clutch-pearls at the cost. It matters little in the long run if the guy you get pans out.
You're preaching to the choir, MP. I couldn't agree more with you. Whatever it takes. Get it done, Pace :-)
I like that a lot MP. And I also liked your point regarding a 2nd QB if one would drop to us later in the draft as BPA. It reminded me a tiny bit about the Patriots taking Jacoby Brissett last year, even though they already had Tom Brady AND Garoppolo. Bill Belichick didn't bat an eye taking Brissett with a fairly high (3rd round) draft pick.
Our problem is that we haven't really tried drafting a solid QB in ages here. I know I'm beating the dead horse, but we haven't even tried to spend a serious draft pick on a QB since 2003 (Grossman). Before that it was 1999 (McNown). Before that it was 1987 (Jim Harbough).
It is almost criminal to ignore the position like we have.
My overall point is to go ALL IN on getting Pace's "guy" and not clutch-pearls at the cost. It matters little in the long run if the guy you get pans out.
I totally agree. I think the paralysis is caused by how much it matters in the long run when you go all in and get the wrong guy (as we did Cutler under Emery). Then it hurts for years. I am to the point that I don't care. It will suck if we don't do anything and it will suck if we get the wrong guy. One way we have a chance, other way we don't. If the team motto has to be 'let it suck", then let it suck, but let's go for the guy who we think is the answer. We can do it again next year if we aren't right. And if we are wrong two years in a row, then Pace is not the right guy either. First step is to get the right guys. After that it becomes easy. It really does.
Well my cannon of cold hard facts is now empty and in need of cooling off and realoding. Call me up after FA and we'll see what fingers and toes that have bought that way can help us to replace those we're cutting off. That may give us some idea of how the draft may play out but I wouldn't guarantee it.
Most years we go into a draft with a priority or maybe two but to me it looks like we're about to have so many we'd need 10 picks in the first three rounds to fill them all. I can see how they've been trying the old addition by subtraction method to improve but between you and me and the fence post I don't see it working very well.