Building blocks for the team: Trubs(to early to tell but he has to turn out and be the guy the rest of the team is built around) Howard Whitehair Long(to hurt to often) Leno(average could do better could do worse)
Hicks/Goldman(2 3rds of a special DL) Floyd(hurt) Danny T/Freeman(both hurt or have been hurt) Prince A(not a ball hawk but a solid #1 CB) Inman
Those are all quality building blocks it's a really nice start but there needs to be more to make a special team. Specifically at WR/TE.
legitimate depth guys Benny C Cohen Nick K C Jones Acho
right now that's all I can think of so ya there is still a depth issue on the team also. This is why Pace needs to trade back, garner more picks over the next 2 years and he needs to get a few more hits in FA then he did this year.
I really see this a different way. We have had two good drafts 2016 and 2017. The 2015 draft was ok if you include the UFAs picked up. With one more good draft in 2018 there will be a solid spine to the team. Most importantly Pace has possibly found a franchise QB which is really the most important thing.
People are judging Pace wrong on FA too. He has churned the roster and found some pieces. In doing so he has found a lot of crap too. But he can cut that cheaply.
Despite the disappointment of this season the team is well placed. We have Pace to thank for this. I hope he sticks to his guns.
Now Fox on* the other hand....
I'm not trying to beat up on Pace (I'm hoping he works out for us), but look at our present roster (LINK here) and look at it in light of a roster that will win division championships, instead of being in last place annually. And to be fair, you can look at the injured as if they were healthy, so you give Pace every benefit of the doubt.
But look at it. Soberly. Objectively. Without any homer glasses on.
It is populated with too many mediocre to downright bad players. And where are the "difference makers" on that roster? Any 1st team All Pros? Even one? Not that we need to have a bunch of All Pros to win Super Bowls (or even division championships). But where are the legit studs? Pull up one of the power teams in the NFL now, and look over THEIR roster. Man, we are not even in the ballpark with a power team.
I understand that 3 years of Pace's roster building are not enough to perfect a roster. I get that. But our talent (looked at objectively) is a ways away from where it needs to be. No coach is going to turn chicken crap into chicken salad. No pixie dust here. We need some better players.
Building blocks for the team: Trubs(to early to tell but he has to turn out and be the guy the rest of the team is built around) Howard Whitehair Long(to hurt to often) Leno(average could do better could do worse)
Hicks/Goldman(2 3rds of a special DL) Floyd(hurt) Danny T/Freeman(both hurt or have been hurt) Prince A(not a ball hawk but a solid #1 CB) Inman
Those are all quality building blocks it's a really nice start but there needs to be more to make a special team. Specifically at WR/TE.
legitimate depth guys Benny C Cohen Nick K C Jones Acho
right now that's all I can think of so ya there is still a depth issue on the team also. This is why Pace needs to trade back, garner more picks over the next 2 years and he needs to get a few more hits in FA then he did this year.
I agree. We do have some players who are good, or who could be good (we still don't know for sure about Trubisky). Long is good, if he can ever get healthy and stay healthy. Otherwise I worry he may be another Bears player that health issues diminished what could have been a great career. Only time will tell.
People can legitimately debate a bit over a few of the players, but surely nobody here believes this roster is stacked for a deep playoff run (no matter WHO is coaching).
The roster talent problem is threefold, in that:
1. We lack enough truly "good" starter players. 2. We definitely lack top-tier game changer players - what some call "difference makers" 3. We still are thin with high quality depth players.
I am not looking at this as an "okay" team that is better than the 3-win teams we have now, but rather looking at what a roster needs to be a true playoff-power team. One that wins division titles and then is MORE than a one-and-done playoff team. If anyone thinks a new coach is going to magically transform this roster into that, then I honestly think they are delusional. Heck, the jury is still out as far as us having our franchise QB. Sure. He could be. But Rex Grossman and Jay Cutler were once thought to be that too. And we quickly found out they were not.
Can a new coach get more out of our existing players? Sure. But the roster will still need serious upgrading before we become dominant in our division, and compete for championships. JMO.
We mostly agree, We do have SOME good starting players, a handful or so, most teams aren't stacked w/quality started 1-22. What the team really lacks are probable HoFrs. There is no(as of right now) JJ Watts, or Aaron Rogers or Jason Wittons. I would say Floyd and Hicks are difference makers, Prince is also in that he forces teams to throw to the other side, problem is we lack a true ball hawking CB on the other side.
Depth is always going to be an issue when you suffer the amount of injuries we are year in year out. No team is so deep any any position it can afford to lose all the startrers and or some backups
I agree. We do have some players who are good, or who could be good (we still don't know for sure about Trubisky). Long is good, if he can ever get healthy and stay healthy. Otherwise I worry he may be another Bears player that health issues diminished what could have been a great career. Only time will tell.
People can legitimately debate a bit over a few of the players, but surely nobody here believes this roster is stacked for a deep playoff run (no matter WHO is coaching).
The roster talent problem is threefold, in that:
1. We lack enough truly "good" starter players. 2. We definitely lack top-tier game changer players - what some call "difference makers" 3. We still are thin with high quality depth players.
I am not looking at this as an "okay" team that is better than the 3-win teams we have now, but rather looking at what a roster needs to be a true playoff-power team. One that wins division titles and then is MORE than a one-and-done playoff team. If anyone thinks a new coach is going to magically transform this roster into that, then I honestly think they are delusional. Heck, the jury is still out as far as us having our franchise QB. Sure. He could be. But Rex Grossman and Jay Cutler were once thought to be that too. And we quickly found out they were not.
Can a new coach get more out of our existing players? Sure. But the roster will still need serious upgrading before we become dominant in our division, and compete for championships. JMO.
We mostly agree, We do have SOME good starting players, a handful or so, most teams aren't stacked w/quality started 1-22. What the team really lacks are probable HoFrs. There is no(as of right now) JJ Watts, or Aaron Rogers or Jason Wittons. I would say Floyd and Hicks are difference makers, Prince is also in that he forces teams to throw to the other side, problem is we lack a true ball hawking CB on the other side.
Depth is always going to be an issue when you suffer the amount of injuries we are year in year out. No team is so deep any any position it can afford to lose all the startrers and or some backups
I think we are saying the same thing. Or close to the same thing.
Building blocks for the team: Trubs(to early to tell but he has to turn out and be the guy the rest of the team is built around) Howard Whitehair Long(to hurt to often) Leno(average could do better could do worse)
Hicks/Goldman(2 3rds of a special DL) Floyd(hurt) Danny T/Freeman(both hurt or have been hurt) Prince A(not a ball hawk but a solid #1 CB) Inman
Those are all quality building blocks it's a really nice start but there needs to be more to make a special team. Specifically at WR/TE.
legitimate depth guys Benny C Cohen Nick K C Jones Acho
right now that's all I can think of so ya there is still a depth issue on the team also. This is why Pace needs to trade back, garner more picks over the next 2 years and he needs to get a few more hits in FA then he did this year.
So no love for:
- Meredith
- Wright
- Shaheen
- Amos
- Fuller
- Callahan
- Bullard
Meredith is a 2nd or 3rd WR. WRigth is a solid slot, maybe he's a difference maker if there are 1's and 2's around him Shaheen/amos/fuller are nice players but not playmakers and guys that aren't expected to be backups
Bullard? Really what has he done in 2 years? I know Trubs hasn't done much, but he is a need hit b/c he's a qb. Why not add Eddie Jackson if we are throwing everyone else in? Guys need to prove they are something the other team needs to worry about. Right now Shahee/Meredith/Wright/Amos/Fuller/Callahan/Bullard aren't that.
Callahan is likely a miss on my part though he's a nice backup.
Meredith is a 2nd or 3rd WR. WRigth is a solid slot, maybe he's a difference maker if there are 1's and 2's around him Shaheen/amos/fuller are nice players but not playmakers and guys that aren't expected to be backups
Bullard? Really what has he done in 2 years? I know Trubs hasn't done much, but he is a need hit b/c he's a qb. Why not add Eddie Jackson if we are throwing everyone else in? Guys need to prove they are something the other team needs to worry about. Right now Shahee/Meredith/Wright/Amos/Fuller/Callahan/Bullard aren't that.
Callahan is likely a miss on my part though he's a nice backup.
+1,000 Guys that opposing coordinators lay awake at night worrying about before they play us. Guys that are so good the opposing team builds their gameplan around stopping. Championship teams HAVE those guys. Long ago, WE had those kind of guys. Now? No.
Hey, I like our players like Meredith, Fuller, Shaheen, etc etc etc, and they are good players. No question. But today I looked at our roster (both healthy and injured players), and then I pulled up some rosters of the power teams who will be in the playoffs this year. Pretty sobering. You realize that we don't have that kind of roster now. Maybe (I hope) some of our guys develop and become like those guys on the other rosters. But right now? In 2017? We simply do not have that level of roster talent. I get it, that some want to believe our guys are better than they actually are.
And I'm okay giving Pace another year or two... that would be 5 years in on the rebuild. But we DO have a ways to go here.
Meredith is a 2nd or 3rd WR. WRigth is a solid slot, maybe he's a difference maker if there are 1's and 2's around him Shaheen/amos/fuller are nice players but not playmakers and guys that aren't expected to be backups
Bullard? Really what has he done in 2 years? I know Trubs hasn't done much, but he is a need hit b/c he's a qb. Why not add Eddie Jackson if we are throwing everyone else in? Guys need to prove they are something the other team needs to worry about. Right now Shahee/Meredith/Wright/Amos/Fuller/Callahan/Bullard aren't that.
Callahan is likely a miss on my part though he's a nice backup.
I didn't realize you didn't have Eddie Jackson - I would definitely include him as at least a solid depth guy.
I'm not saying any of these guys are pro bowlers but they are surely at least all solid depth if not starters.
Meredith is a 2nd or 3rd WR. WRigth is a solid slot, maybe he's a difference maker if there are 1's and 2's around him Shaheen/amos/fuller are nice players but not playmakers and guys that aren't expected to be backups
Bullard? Really what has he done in 2 years? I know Trubs hasn't done much, but he is a need hit b/c he's a qb. Why not add Eddie Jackson if we are throwing everyone else in? Guys need to prove they are something the other team needs to worry about. Right now Shahee/Meredith/Wright/Amos/Fuller/Callahan/Bullard aren't that.
Callahan is likely a miss on my part though he's a nice backup.
+1,000 Guys that opposing coordinators lay awake at night worrying about before they play us. Guys that are so good the opposing team builds their gameplan around stopping. Championship teams HAVE those guys. Long ago, WE had those kind of guys. Now? No.
Hey, I like our players like Meredith, Fuller, Shaheen, etc etc etc, and they are good players. No question. But today I looked at our roster (both healthy and injured players), and then I pulled up some rosters of the power teams who will be in the playoffs this year. Pretty sobering. You realize that we don't have that kind of roster now. Maybe (I hope) some of our guys develop and become like those guys on the other rosters. But right now? In 2017? We simply do not have that level of roster talent. I get it, that some want to believe our guys are better than they actually are.
And I'm okay giving Pace another year or two... that would be 5 years in on the rebuild. But we DO have a ways to go here.
You don't think teams lay away worrying about Floyd and Hicks and Goldman and Prince? How often are teams throwing towards Prince's guy? Wanna know why they "pick" on Fuller/Cooper; b/c they cannot pick on Prince. I think teams lay awake at night and worry about guys like Danny and Freeman also, but like Floyd, when you cannot find the field it really doesn't matter.
I think they'll learn to lay awake and worry about guys lie Trubs and Howard, but right now they are easily taken away by the Bears own O schemes/playcalling and lack of everything else.
The team needs some WR's and a TE that makes team worry at night also.
But right now there are no HoFr's, in that you are correct. The team needs some of those, any team looking for SB's needs those guys. Lovie's teams had Urlacher and Hester(should but won't) and Tillman(should but won't) and Kreutz(should but won't). Some of those is b/c of positions they played. There are only 3 OC's in the HoF right now; does anyone really believe there are only 3 OC's worthy of HoF in the entirety of the NFL? Same w/Hester, KR/PR's aren't going to get into the HoF, and he wasn't a threat enough at WR, not even good, to be pseudo nominated for that. Tillman I still think has a shot, but he just not talked about like other top CB's during his time, even though he was every bit as good.
I'm not sure there is a HoF'r on this team right now, at least not yet. Maybe in 3-4 years Hicks/Floyd will look like that, hopefully Trubs will also.
Meredith is a 2nd or 3rd WR. WRigth is a solid slot, maybe he's a difference maker if there are 1's and 2's around him Shaheen/amos/fuller are nice players but not playmakers and guys that aren't expected to be backups
Bullard? Really what has he done in 2 years? I know Trubs hasn't done much, but he is a need hit b/c he's a qb. Why not add Eddie Jackson if we are throwing everyone else in? Guys need to prove they are something the other team needs to worry about. Right now Shahee/Meredith/Wright/Amos/Fuller/Callahan/Bullard aren't that.
Callahan is likely a miss on my part though he's a nice backup.
I didn't realize you didn't have Eddie Jackson - I would definitely include him as at least a solid depth guy.
I'm not saying any of these guys are pro bowlers but they are surely at least all solid depth if not starters.
Jackson is a starter though. He's not a depth guy. And what we are talking about when we talk about difference makers are pro bowl or hof like talent players.
Depth guys are guys that are capable of starting in a pinch. Callaghans a good name there, same w/Nick K and C Jones. but Bullard? Shaheen? Amos/Jackson are the teams starters; although I guess Amos lost his job so he's another good name to have. But does Jackson/Amos worry a O coordinator? I don't think so.