Yep, and now if you have time go watch some of Sims college film and tell me what you think. The guy, to me, is more than just an inline blocker.
I'm certainly no expert but I agree. He absolutely seems to have the capability to be a much more effective receiver than what his stats show so far. Even the draft profiles I've looked at for him a few years back mention his soft hands. I'm very interested in seeing what he can do this year if used properly.
PB the reason I contrasted him to Marty B was based somewhat on size and the thought that he may be that kind of player who does eventually breakout when given the chance. There are some similarities between them.
What runs counter to that is Bennett did have his breakout year with the NYG once he was out from under Witten's shadow in Dallas however Sims did not respond with the same kind of production in what could have been a breakout year for him in Miami last year after Cameron was sidelined.
We gave both similar deal with $10 mil guaranteed with Sims deal being for 3 years vs Marty's @ 4 years and Sims is getting a higher salary. If Sims becomes as productive as Marty B was (when he wasn't crying about money and played at 100%) then we made a good deal. I just haven't see that in Sims yet whereas Bennett had his breakout season before we signed him.
I'm casting doubts on many things right now because of the way this team has regressed under Fox and Pace and I don't believe that's totally unfair. They'll have a shot at earning my trust back this fall but not before.
For real Soul? Perhaps I did not word it correctly. I didn't think it'd be an issue because you listed the stats...and you're a smart guy. Miller had 47 catches, Sims had 26. 47 minus 26 is 21. So on 21 less catches Sims had the same amount of TD's that Miller had. Further, miller had 64 targets. Sims had 35, so Miller had 30 more passes tossed in his direction than Sims had. So no...it wasn't drops, or bad routes...he caught 2/3rd's of the passes thrown to him and had a 0% drop percentage this past season. That means he didn't drop a catchable pass thrown to him.
I mean I get your "show me" attitude, but you don't have to be so absolute that you can't see whats right in front of your face. Go watch the film on the kid. You say you want answers...but I don't think you really do, because they are out there in some cases...I think you just want to rail on everything.
I was talking about Cameron's stats with 35 catches off 70 targets not Sims because that's who you had flagged in your post. I have watched Sims and I see a guy with some speed and athleticism that I like. He's no Logan Paulsen or Kellen Davis that's for sure.
But even then he's not Gronkowski or Olsen or even Marty Bennett yet. He hasn't shown that so what I have said is show me. You know as well as I do the list of highly touted UFAs that we've had show up over the years who've disappointed is pretty lengthy.
Maybe you misunderstand. I'm not rejecting every player Pace signed or chose to bring back. I'm just not gonna use them to project anything right now including any improvement in the overall caliber of the roster other than maybe some added depth.
The rest they'll have to earn on the field this coming fall.
Ah...Cameron...then I misunderstood. I checked and in 2015 Cameron had a 0% drop rate on catchable balls, so clearly drops weren't the issue. Given Ryan Tannenhills struggles I'd say maybe the accuracy of the passes was not the best. Remember just because a player is targeted by a pass doesn't mean that pass is catchable. His 3rd year in Cleveland he caught 80 balls for over 900 yards...shame the guy couldn't stop getting concussed.
I'm certainly no expert but I agree. He absolutely seems to have the capability to be a much more effective receiver than what his stats show so far. Even the draft profiles I've looked at for him a few years back mention his soft hands. I'm very interested in seeing what he can do this year if used properly.
PB the reason I contrasted him to Marty B was based somewhat on size and the thought that he may be that kind of player who does eventually breakout when given the chance. There are some similarities between them.
What runs counter to that is Bennett did have his breakout year with the NYG once he was out from under Witten's shadow in Dallas however Sims did not respond with the same kind of production in what could have been a breakout year for him in Miami last year after Cameron was sidelined.
We gave both similar deal with $10 mil guaranteed with Sims deal being for 3 years vs Marty's @ 4 years and Sims is getting a higher salary. If Sims becomes as productive as Marty B was (when he wasn't crying about money and played at 100%) then we made a good deal. I just haven't see that in Sims yet whereas Bennett had his breakout season before we signed him.
I'm casting doubts on many things right now because of the way this team has regressed under Fox and Pace and I don't believe that's totally unfair. They'll have a shot at earning my trust back this fall but not before.
You're forgetting that Bennett went to a situation where Eli Manning was his QB in an offense that valued the tight end in the passing game. It was a perfect situation for Marty. Sims was in an offense with Tannehill that preferred using the wide receivers, as is evident by the target share in the passing game, only produced 2900 yards passing, and was an offense that for much of the year struggled to find an identity.
I was talking about Cameron's stats with 35 catches off 70 targets not Sims because that's who you had flagged in your post. I have watched Sims and I see a guy with some speed and athleticism that I like. He's no Logan Paulsen or Kellen Davis that's for sure.
But even then he's not Gronkowski or Olsen or even Marty Bennett yet. He hasn't shown that so what I have said is show me. You know as well as I do the list of highly touted UFAs that we've had show up over the years who've disappointed is pretty lengthy.
Maybe you misunderstand. I'm not rejecting every player Pace signed or chose to bring back. I'm just not gonna use them to project anything right now including any improvement in the overall caliber of the roster other than maybe some added depth.
The rest they'll have to earn on the field this coming fall.
Ah...Cameron...then I misunderstood. I checked and in 2015 Cameron had a 0% drop rate on catchable balls, so clearly drops weren't the issue. Given Ryan Tannenhills struggles I'd say maybe the accuracy of the passes was not the best. Remember just because a player is targeted by a pass doesn't mean that pass is catchable. His 3rd year in Cleveland he caught 80 balls for over 900 yards...shame the guy couldn't stop getting concussed.
Speaking of the Dolphins, wasn't there the idea that Gase would want to get Cutler in there? Wonder where all that chatter went.
I was talking about Cameron's stats with 35 catches off 70 targets not Sims because that's who you had flagged in your post. I have watched Sims and I see a guy with some speed and athleticism that I like. He's no Logan Paulsen or Kellen Davis that's for sure.
But even then he's not Gronkowski or Olsen or even Marty Bennett yet. He hasn't shown that so what I have said is show me. You know as well as I do the list of highly touted UFAs that we've had show up over the years who've disappointed is pretty lengthy.
Maybe you misunderstand. I'm not rejecting every player Pace signed or chose to bring back. I'm just not gonna use them to project anything right now including any improvement in the overall caliber of the roster other than maybe some added depth.
The rest they'll have to earn on the field this coming fall.
Ah...Cameron...then I misunderstood. I checked and in 2015 Cameron had a 0% drop rate on catchable balls, so clearly drops weren't the issue. Given Ryan Tannenhills struggles I'd say maybe the accuracy of the passes was not the best. Remember just because a player is targeted by a pass doesn't mean that pass is catchable. His 3rd year in Cleveland he caught 80 balls for over 900 yards...shame the guy couldn't stop getting concussed.
My entire thought process re: Sims is based almost solely on him not grabbing the ring as a starter last season after he became one. But your points about scheme and number of opportunities isn't unfair either. You can't catch what doesn't come your way.
To date those pro UFAs Pace's scouting staff has uncovered have a somewhat spotty record so it stands to reason that I would question some of the UFA signings when they lack any real evidence a guy is or can be a difference maker. I might add that if Gase believed he was why would they have allowed him to sign elsewhere?
I'm not saying Sims can't be only that to date he hasn't been. But....I do see a guy with size, tackle breaking power, good speed for his size, and decent hands and body control. He could possibly be the equal of most highly drafted TEs based on that alone but in the end it's production that rules and so far his has been limited.
We need a whole lot of better football players and until I can see them play the game on this team in it's schemes I don't have much else to go on and so I'm skeptical at the moment. When you've watched a team become as decimated as this one seems to have become it's not an altogether unreasonable position to take is it?
PB the reason I contrasted him to Marty B was based somewhat on size and the thought that he may be that kind of player who does eventually breakout when given the chance. There are some similarities between them.
What runs counter to that is Bennett did have his breakout year with the NYG once he was out from under Witten's shadow in Dallas however Sims did not respond with the same kind of production in what could have been a breakout year for him in Miami last year after Cameron was sidelined.
We gave both similar deal with $10 mil guaranteed with Sims deal being for 3 years vs Marty's @ 4 years and Sims is getting a higher salary. If Sims becomes as productive as Marty B was (when he wasn't crying about money and played at 100%) then we made a good deal. I just haven't see that in Sims yet whereas Bennett had his breakout season before we signed him.
I'm casting doubts on many things right now because of the way this team has regressed under Fox and Pace and I don't believe that's totally unfair. They'll have a shot at earning my trust back this fall but not before.
You're forgetting that Bennett went to a situation where Eli Manning was his QB in an offense that valued the tight end in the passing game. It was a perfect situation for Marty. Sims was in an offense with Tannehill that preferred using the wide receivers, as is evident by the target share in the passing game, only produced 2900 yards passing, and was an offense that for much of the year struggled to find an identity.
I'm not forgetting it but I'm also not conceding that scheme and opportunity explain all of it. In Sims I see a guy with some tools but whether or not his potential will be realized here or there are other flaws in his game we've yet to see (highlight reels are just that, they don't expose goofs) I can't say so I haven't. It's still "Show Me" what you can do don't tell me.
Ah...Cameron...then I misunderstood. I checked and in 2015 Cameron had a 0% drop rate on catchable balls, so clearly drops weren't the issue. Given Ryan Tannenhills struggles I'd say maybe the accuracy of the passes was not the best. Remember just because a player is targeted by a pass doesn't mean that pass is catchable. His 3rd year in Cleveland he caught 80 balls for over 900 yards...shame the guy couldn't stop getting concussed.
My entire thought process re: Sims is based almost solely on him not grabbing the ring as a starter last season after he became one. But your points about scheme and number of opportunities isn't unfair either. You can't catch what doesn't come your way.
To date those pro UFAs Pace's scouting staff has uncovered have a somewhat spotty record so it stands to reason that I would question some of the UFA signings when they lack any real evidence a guy is or can be a difference maker. I might add that if Gase believed he was why would they have allowed him to sign elsewhere?
I'm not saying Sims can't be only that to date he hasn't been. But....I do see a guy with size, tackle breaking power, good speed for his size, and decent hands and body control. He could possibly be the equal of most highly drafted TEs based on that alone but in the end it's production that rules and so far his has been limited.
We need a whole lot of better football players and until I can see them play the game on this team in it's schemes I don't have much else to go on and so I'm skeptical at the moment. When you've watched a team become as decimated as this one seems to have become it's not an altogether unreasonable position to take is it?
Your position isn't unreasonable, but I would say the way you're going about it is somewhat. Instead of pointing out all the things you just pointed out, while then stating your hesitancy to buy in until you see it on the field. Instead you've come out with a venom and pretty much shit on everything the guy has done, even if that move was a good one.
As for why the Dolphins let him go...who knows. I know Gase wanted him back, but they also have several players such as Jarvis Landry and Reshad Jones whose contracts are coming up that I'm sure they would like to resign/franchise. I do know they had to sign/trade for two guys to replace the things he does in Fasano and Thomas.
As for Pace's history...here it is:
2015 March 10 start March 11 Sign LB Pernell McPhee, S Antrel Rolle, WR Eddie Royal March 16 Sign G Vlad Ducasse March 24 Sign DL Jarvis Jenkins, Ray McDonald, Tracy Porter
2016 March 9 start March 9 Sign T Bobbie Massie, sign LB Danny Trevathan March 12 Sign LB Jerrell Freeman March 13 Sign DL Akiem Hicks March 22 Sign TE Josh Hill to offer sheet (matched by Saints) Josh Sitton, Eric Kush
Thats not a bad hit rate there brother. Nobody bats 1.000 in this league.
You're forgetting that Bennett went to a situation where Eli Manning was his QB in an offense that valued the tight end in the passing game. It was a perfect situation for Marty. Sims was in an offense with Tannehill that preferred using the wide receivers, as is evident by the target share in the passing game, only produced 2900 yards passing, and was an offense that for much of the year struggled to find an identity.
I'm not forgetting it but I'm also not conceding that scheme and opportunity explain all of it. In Sims I see a guy with some tools but whether or not his potential will be realized here or there are other flaws in his game we've yet to see (highlight reels are just that, they don't expose goofs) I can't say so I haven't. It's still "Show Me" what you can do don't tell me.
Which is why you should go watch some full game tape of him from college.
My entire thought process re: Sims is based almost solely on him not grabbing the ring as a starter last season after he became one. But your points about scheme and number of opportunities isn't unfair either. You can't catch what doesn't come your way.
To date those pro UFAs Pace's scouting staff has uncovered have a somewhat spotty record so it stands to reason that I would question some of the UFA signings when they lack any real evidence a guy is or can be a difference maker. I might add that if Gase believed he was why would they have allowed him to sign elsewhere?
I'm not saying Sims can't be only that to date he hasn't been. But....I do see a guy with size, tackle breaking power, good speed for his size, and decent hands and body control. He could possibly be the equal of most highly drafted TEs based on that alone but in the end it's production that rules and so far his has been limited.
We need a whole lot of better football players and until I can see them play the game on this team in it's schemes I don't have much else to go on and so I'm skeptical at the moment. When you've watched a team become as decimated as this one seems to have become it's not an altogether unreasonable position to take is it?
Your position isn't unreasonable, but I would say the way you're going about it is somewhat. Instead of pointing out all the things you just pointed out, while then stating your hesitancy to buy in until you see it on the field. Instead you've come out with a venom and pretty much shit on everything the guy has done, even if that move was a good one.
As for why the Dolphins let him go...who knows. I know Gase wanted him back, but they also have several players such as Jarvis Landry and Reshad Jones whose contracts are coming up that I'm sure they would like to resign/franchise. I do know they had to sign/trade for two guys to replace the things he does in Fasano and Thomas.
As for Pace's history...here it is:
2015 March 10 start March 11 Sign LB Pernell McPhee, S Antrel Rolle, WR Eddie Royal March 16 Sign G Vlad Ducasse March 24 Sign DL Jarvis Jenkins, Ray McDonald, Tracy Porter
2016 March 9 start March 9 Sign T Bobbie Massie, sign LB Danny Trevathan March 12 Sign LB Jerrell Freeman March 13 Sign DL Akiem Hicks March 22 Sign TE Josh Hill to offer sheet (matched by Saints) Josh Sitton, Eric Kush
Thats not a bad hit rate there brother. Nobody bats 1.000 in this league.
The venom is based on emotions and it also calls attention to what I see as potential problems that should be looked at and questions asked. It can't go without saying that I am not the only fan site member or media scribe who has also been a bit venomous of this teams roster moves in it's rebuilding scheme.
I'm just one among many brother but if someone like you wants to debate it I'm just as capable of pulling back the emotions and putting forth the logic. Part of the problem is logic doesn't always work amongst rabid fans of anything or anyone as much these days so maybe I push a little harder than normal.
I've never thought or posted that Pace was a total failure. Some signings have been beneficial but we've also been besieged by injuries to some of the more key additions which makes them harder to analyze and others on your list have at times under performed and we've already drafted or signed possible replacements for them and have another draft to do so coming up.
To date those who I would see as upgrades are McPhee and Porter from 2015 yet injuries have limited both. Ordinarily we might say 'dems da breaks but both had significant injury histories prior to signing which left them to become UFAs. Pace gambled on that but he won't gamble on higher priced talent without injury histories? Just asking...........
In 2016 Freeman, Hicks, and of course Sitton are the guys who earned their keep. Sitton was kind of a gift from GB but both Freeman and Hicks were terrific finds. Trevathan was last years Pernell McPhee. A guy with an injury history who got re-injured. So much like Porter and McPhee we have to look at a penalty for unavailability.
I'm not claiming to be against any of these guys I'm just pointing out that taking shots with lower cost players with injury histories has it's own risks too but those haven't been a part of the conversation so far. We've only been debating the caliber of the player vs his cost. Missed starts that lower the overall effectiveness of a position or a unit are part of the equation too.
Although three others had starts I'm not sure I can give you Jenkins, Massie, or Kush as being any kind of a real upgrade. They're journeymen place holders at best. Maybe better than a raw rookie but most definitely not top tier talent and maybe not even 2nd tier talent beyond providing depth.
I'm not forgetting it but I'm also not conceding that scheme and opportunity explain all of it. In Sims I see a guy with some tools but whether or not his potential will be realized here or there are other flaws in his game we've yet to see (highlight reels are just that, they don't expose goofs) I can't say so I haven't. It's still "Show Me" what you can do don't tell me.
Which is why you should go watch some full game tape of him from college.
When I have the time that may help but it's still college game tapes. He's had four years of pro ball now that goes beyond his college game. He was a 4th round pick who was probably drafted for depth and for his blocking (Mayock called him the best blocking TE in that draft) and for four years that's mostly what's he's been.
But now he's earning starters money and much more starters money than we're paying last years starter so obviously we should expect to see more from him than simply blocking and a few catches. If he can accomplish that we made a good move but I won't know that 'til this fall. None of us will.