Possible Mooney Trade?

dachuckster
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Possible Mooney Trade? Aug 31, 2023 15:41:40 GMT -6

Post by dachuckster on Aug 31, 2023 15:41:40 GMT -6

Aug 31, 2023 15:00:44 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Aug 31, 2023 11:57:26 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

You can't say the 85 Bears and 2000 Ravens would adapt. The teams as constructed (with the same players) would have serious issues competing in the modern NFL. It is not saying the two teams were not good. Both were great, champion teams, within their era. I still have my 85 Bears season (digitized and ripped to mp4 files) and watch it every couple of years. I love the 85 Bears. I loved all the great defensive teams on the 70's, 80's and 90's. But that era has long gone.

I don't necessarily agree with riczaj01 on everything he says about the defense being supported to a one sided extreme. But he is absolutely right about needing a fairly high functioning offense in today's NFL.

Fields will have to do a few things he has (so far) not done in his career. He will need to read, react (maybe calling an audible) and execute the passing offense quickly (in under 3 seconds). He needs to do this accurately and consistently. This is the way you will determine what the defense is giving you and then exploit it to the best possible way. That ability, combined with a very solid running game will open up the deep ball big play. And if Poles and Eberflus achieve this, it will be an absolute pleasure to watch.

Does anyone here think the offense does NOT need to substantially improve? This is a straw man argument. No one here is saying the Bears can get by without a vastly better passing attack. No idea where that came from.

The offense got a major FA, a major trade player, and a top-10 draft pick this offseason. Not to mention a WR2, a WR4, a TE2, a TE3, a RB2, a RB3. If you're gonna be mad that we drafted a CB and 2 DTs in rounds 2-3, then I can't help you. The D was awful too last year and not EVERY draft pick can or should go to one side of the ball.

Finally, this is a REBUILD. It's at least one more offseason before we see the full results and we have 2 1sts plus a ton of cap to use.

+1 to highlight #1

And to add to highlight #2, there are several analysts who have started to rank Wright as the best OT in the 2023 draft, some ranking him as the best overall OL in the draft.

JABF
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Possible Mooney Trade? Aug 31, 2023 15:52:33 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Aug 31, 2023 15:52:33 GMT -6

Aug 31, 2023 15:00:44 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Finally, this is a REBUILD. It's at least one more offseason before we see the full results and we have 2 1sts plus a ton of cap to use.

When my thoughts start running wild about the Bears' roster strength this year I reign them back in by reminding myself that very thing you mention there. It is a rebuild. It is all about 2024 and beyond. This is just a milestone on the journey to 2024. The roster is definitely better. But yes, we need those 2024 draft/FA guys added before we're much of anything as an offense or a defense. Both need 2024 upgrades added to the foundation laid this season.

"Do anything that might make the world a better place for someone"
-Walter Payton

butkus3595
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Possible Mooney Trade? Aug 31, 2023 17:49:04 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Aug 31, 2023 17:49:04 GMT -6

Aug 30, 2023 20:31:50 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Aug 30, 2023 20:02:18 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

They're not trading Mooney...they didn't ignore the offense...the season needs to start ASAP. Boom, end of story.

Thank you!

And btw, Getsy DID try to throw the ball early last season. I was at several of those early games and I can tell you he did drop Fields back quite a bit and the results were disastrous. The OL was leaky as hell in pass pro and the Bears had no joke the worst WR corps in the NFL. Those clowns (Pringle, Harry, Pettis, etc) couldn't get open if you locked the defense outside the stadium.

To his credit, Getsy adjusted his approach mid-season and that's when Fields started making huge plays with his legs and we actually scored some points.

We had nobody to throw to last season and no pass pro to throw anything past 5 yards anyway.

I was listening to the Hoge and Jahns podcast with John Lucas on it. He made mention of "stubborn coaches" who "put their ego and pride first and wouldn't adjust to the talent they had"....I think we all know who he was referring to. YES! Credit to Getsy for scrapping his plans and letting Fields do what he's exceptional at.

butkus3595
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Possible Mooney Trade? Aug 31, 2023 18:10:28 GMT -6 AlexM and shark86 like this

Post by butkus3595 on Aug 31, 2023 18:10:28 GMT -6

Aug 31, 2023 9:50:50 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Aug 31, 2023 8:52:59 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Maybe I'm confused here but aren't we all in agreement that we are in year 2 of a REBUILD?

Call me crazy but it seems obvious to me. We changed GM/HC last offseason (a year too late IMO) and the new regime nuked the roster last year (again, overdue IMO). My 2nd team, the Cards, are doing the exact same thing right now. They aren't even pretending that they aren't tanking for the #1 pick. They have made it unmistakable. It was pretty darn the exact same thing last year with the Bears.

Poles is now rebuilding the roster with younger (and hopefully BETTER) talent. Outside of Marcedes Lewis and Whitehair, I can't think of a single player who is over 30 yo. Both those guys will be gone next season too.

Expectations for this season should be kept in check. I want to see the offense, passing offense in particular, show substantial improvement. That's my main goal. I think the defense, especially run defense, will be better (how could it not be?) but I don't expect miracles. Overall, let's just get to roughly 500 in record. We aren't SB contenders for sure and I would say there's no way we should make the playoffs except that the NFC is soooooo weak this year, we actually could if Fields takes that next step he needs to.

For all the resources dumped into the def in the last 2 years at the expense of the O, it should be substantially better then the offense itself.

there should be no expectations for the passing O. A few pieces on the OL and 1 WR and a bunch of mid do not a passing O make, qb's that make that work are the rarest of breeds and excepetions.

You keep on intentionally minimizing what was done on offense. It wasn't just a "few pieces on the OL"...it was a top 10 draft pick and giving a guard $10 mill per year, allowing our left guard to move to his better position, center. It wasn't just "1 WR"...it was a BONAFIDE STUD receiver, plus Tyler Scott, plus Mooney coming back. Never mind the competent TE2 they signed, and the two running backs they brought in.

Now if you're expecting Fields to throw 700 times this season for 4500 yards...no, you're not going to get that, because he's a dynamic threat at the QB position who can make RARE plays with his legs and arm. It seems some people need to change their expectation of what this offense should look like with Fields.

butkus3595
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Possible Mooney Trade? Aug 31, 2023 18:15:57 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Aug 31, 2023 18:15:57 GMT -6

Aug 31, 2023 12:11:41 GMT -6 davidl said:

Aug 31, 2023 11:57:26 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

You can't say the 85 Bears and 2000 Ravens would adapt. The teams as constructed (with the same players) would have serious issues competing in the modern NFL. It is not saying the two teams were not good. Both were great, champion teams, within their era. I still have my 85 Bears season (digitized and ripped to mp4 files) and watch it every couple of years. I love the 85 Bears. I loved all the great defensive teams on the 70's, 80's and 90's. But that era has long gone.

I don't necessarily agree with riczaj01 on everything he says about the defense being supported to a one sided extreme. But he is absolutely right about needing a fairly high functioning offense in today's NFL.

Fields will have to do a few things he has (so far) not done in his career. He will need to read, react (maybe calling an audible) and execute the passing offense quickly (in under 3 seconds). He needs to do this accurately and consistently. This is the way you will determine what the defense is giving you and then exploit it to the best possible way. That ability, combined with a very solid running game will open up the deep ball big play. And if Poles and Eberflus achieve this, it will be an absolute pleasure to watch.

I disagree. But it is all counter-factual so can't prove anything. Speed, strength, agility, smarts are the ingredients of a good football player, whether today or 20 years ago. Yes, the rules changes disadvantage the defense, but it is easy to overstate the point IMO.

Fields never had much chance last year with a crap OL and WRs. I don't expect him to become Tom Brady this year, but I do believe he will play much better with the added supports. If not, then use that extra first round pick in 2024 for a QB. Pray that doesn't happen.

Anyone expecting Fields to ever be Tom Brady is going to be routinely disappointed. He is a FAR SUPERIOR athlete, and that is what makes him dangerous. He IS NOT Tom Brady, and he will never be Tom Brady. Fans better wrap their brains around that.

riczaj01
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Possible Mooney Trade? Aug 31, 2023 18:34:36 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Aug 31, 2023 18:34:36 GMT -6

Aug 31, 2023 18:10:28 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Aug 31, 2023 9:50:50 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

For all the resources dumped into the def in the last 2 years at the expense of the O, it should be substantially better then the offense itself.

there should be no expectations for the passing O. A few pieces on the OL and 1 WR and a bunch of mid do not a passing O make, qb's that make that work are the rarest of breeds and excepetions.

You keep on intentionally minimizing what was done on offense. It wasn't just a "few pieces on the OL"...it was a top 10 draft pick and giving a guard $10 mill per year, allowing our left guard to move to his better position, center. It wasn't just "1 WR"...it was a BONAFIDE STUD receiver, plus Tyler Scott, plus Mooney coming back. Never mind the competent TE2 they signed, and the two running backs they brought in.

Now if you're expecting Fields to throw 700 times this season for 4500 yards...no, you're not going to get that, because he's a dynamic threat at the QB position who can make RARE plays with his legs and arm. It seems some people need to change their expectation of what this offense should look like with Fields.

1 OT, #1, #10 or #100 is still 1 guy. There is a reason there are no concerns b/c there are a couple injuries on the OL. Last year they were not an FA and a draft pick from fixing that disaster.

1 WR, bonafide stud or not is still 1 WR on a team w/very mid other WR's. Again see Cutler/Marshal before they added another WR and TE; and that was when he had a really good RB, that was a receiving threat. This team last year was not a #1 away from having a good WR group.

No I dont expect him to throw 700 times. The talent they brought in the last 2 years says they have no intention of ever letting him get close to that #. Hell he got to throw the ball all of 9 times this pre season.

I've said pretty regularly that they intend to run the ball as if it's 1985 again. Keep building a top def and a just good enough O, ala Lovie. What they should do, and what I think they are going to do, are two very different things. And if you were reading and understanding what I was saying you'd get that.

Last Edit: Aug 31, 2023 18:42:54 GMT -6 by riczaj01

davidl
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Possible Mooney Trade? Aug 31, 2023 19:26:00 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Aug 31, 2023 19:26:00 GMT -6

Aug 31, 2023 14:57:42 GMT -6 JABF said:

Aug 31, 2023 12:18:45 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

I'm not knocking Fields. Just saying he needs to show us things he has not done before this point. I am not saying that he is incapable of doing it. Just that he has not shown it. I sincerely hope he can and will do this. If he shows that he has issues performing like an elite, franchise QB then we have to get another QB and start all over. I would much rather be pleasantly surprised at how quickly he can do it.

Then all we need is a solid 2023-2024 off-season cycle and we should be in the hunt for a deep playoff run in 2024.

+1,000
That's "it" in a nutshell. Having good physical traits and giving reasons to be hopeful are great... but until you see actual results, all you have is hope and not achievement. There is a difference between the two. Fields is not proven yet. But yes, he's given us hope (just like Trubisy, Cutler, Grossman... and the other 40+ starters we've had over the many years). We need to see a QB actually prove to be the guy we hope for.

It is true that Fields hasn’t proven that he will do all those things that Poles just talked about in the news conference. But Poles would have drafted Bryce Young if he did not have confidence that it will happen. Now, he could be wrong about Fields, but right now, I am a hell of a lot more doubtful about this Bears defense than I am that Fields will not live up to expectations. Ric is right that the Bears since 2021 have taken some steps to rebuild the front-7 that Poles completely obliterated with trades/cuts. We have Brisker, Gordon, Edmonds, Edwards, and Walker. He will get a couple more through high draft picks in 2024. Maybe one of these others like Stevenson or Dexter will also emerge. If we are Super Bowl ready by 2025, this group will have to be the core of the Bears defense. I have more difficulty believing that will materialize than that Fields and this offense will be ready by then.

Last Edit: Aug 31, 2023 19:28:45 GMT -6 by davidl

butkus3595
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Possible Mooney Trade? Aug 31, 2023 19:48:46 GMT -6 davidl likes this

Post by butkus3595 on Aug 31, 2023 19:48:46 GMT -6

Aug 31, 2023 18:34:36 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Aug 31, 2023 18:10:28 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

You keep on intentionally minimizing what was done on offense. It wasn't just a "few pieces on the OL"...it was a top 10 draft pick and giving a guard $10 mill per year, allowing our left guard to move to his better position, center. It wasn't just "1 WR"...it was a BONAFIDE STUD receiver, plus Tyler Scott, plus Mooney coming back. Never mind the competent TE2 they signed, and the two running backs they brought in.

Now if you're expecting Fields to throw 700 times this season for 4500 yards...no, you're not going to get that, because he's a dynamic threat at the QB position who can make RARE plays with his legs and arm. It seems some people need to change their expectation of what this offense should look like with Fields.

1 OT, #1, #10 or #100 is still 1 guy. There is a reason there are no concerns b/c there are a couple injuries on the OL. Last year they were not an FA and a draft pick from fixing that disaster.

1 WR, bonafide stud or not is still 1 WR on a team w/very mid other WR's. Again see Cutler/Marshal before they added another WR and TE; and that was when he had a really good RB, that was a receiving threat. This team last year was not a #1 away from having a good WR group.

No I dont expect him to throw 700 times. The talent they brought in the last 2 years says they have no intention of ever letting him get close to that #. Hell he got to throw the ball all of 9 times this pre season.

I've said pretty regularly that they intend to run the ball as if it's 1985 again. Keep building a top def and a just good enough O, ala Lovie. What they should do, and what I think they are going to do, are two very different things. And if you were reading and understanding what I was saying you'd get that.

Name me the team that wouldn't have concerns on their o-line if two of their starters were hurt?

Its not 1 WR...its really 3 when you add in Scott and consider Mooney coming back. 4 when you consider Claypool has a full off season in the system.

FIELDS talents says he won't throw the ball 700 times. FIELDS. Maybe its you who needs to understand and get things...cause what YOU think they should do doesn't jive with what Fields talent says they should do.

mpbears68
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Possible Mooney Trade? Aug 31, 2023 22:56:21 GMT -6 shark86 and butkus3595 like this

Post by mpbears68 on Aug 31, 2023 22:56:21 GMT -6

Aug 31, 2023 17:49:04 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Aug 30, 2023 20:31:50 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Thank you!

And btw, Getsy DID try to throw the ball early last season. I was at several of those early games and I can tell you he did drop Fields back quite a bit and the results were disastrous. The OL was leaky as hell in pass pro and the Bears had no joke the worst WR corps in the NFL. Those clowns (Pringle, Harry, Pettis, etc) couldn't get open if you locked the defense outside the stadium.

To his credit, Getsy adjusted his approach mid-season and that's when Fields started making huge plays with his legs and we actually scored some points.

We had nobody to throw to last season and no pass pro to throw anything past 5 yards anyway.

I was listening to the Hoge and Jahns podcast with John Lucas on it. He made mention of "stubborn coaches" who "put their ego and pride first and wouldn't adjust to the talent they had"....I think we all know who he was referring to. YES! Credit to Getsy for scrapping his plans and letting Fields do what he's exceptional at.

Saw that same show on YouTube. Yep, calling out Nagy very specifically there.

The more you learn about Pace & Nagy the more you're glad they're gone.

riczaj01
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Possible Mooney Trade? Sept 1, 2023 5:16:31 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Sept 1, 2023 5:16:31 GMT -6

Aug 31, 2023 19:48:46 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Aug 31, 2023 18:34:36 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

1 OT, #1, #10 or #100 is still 1 guy. There is a reason there are no concerns b/c there are a couple injuries on the OL. Last year they were not an FA and a draft pick from fixing that disaster.

1 WR, bonafide stud or not is still 1 WR on a team w/very mid other WR's. Again see Cutler/Marshal before they added another WR and TE; and that was when he had a really good RB, that was a receiving threat. This team last year was not a #1 away from having a good WR group.

No I dont expect him to throw 700 times. The talent they brought in the last 2 years says they have no intention of ever letting him get close to that #. Hell he got to throw the ball all of 9 times this pre season.

I've said pretty regularly that they intend to run the ball as if it's 1985 again. Keep building a top def and a just good enough O, ala Lovie. What they should do, and what I think they are going to do, are two very different things. And if you were reading and understanding what I was saying you'd get that.

Name me the team that wouldn't have concerns on their o-line if two of their starters were hurt?

Its not 1 WR...its really 3 when you add in Scott and consider Mooney coming back. 4 when you consider Claypool has a full off season in the system.

FIELDS talents says he won't throw the ball 700 times. FIELDS. Maybe its you who needs to understand and get things...cause what YOU think they should do doesn't jive with what Fields talent says they should do.

Claypool, well we got to see the reason Pitt sent him packing for a rookie. Mooney isn't anything special, he's just a dude. Scott's a rookie, mid round, expecting him to do anything is unfair.

Name me a team that would go into a season w/a starting OL that had spent his first 3 years constantly hurt. Chicago?

Fields if surrounded by a talent like KC, Buff, Ciny could throw as often as needed and succeed. Surrounded by mid while the team tries to rebuild a def cannot.

If the team feels like you do, then we won't have to worry about this b/c he'll be sent off as they draft another qb next year. And seriously, who's talking 700? 6 qb's were there or even close to 700. Feel free to get to the middle and not laughly behind even the group that is just in front of you in dead last. Lets work at getting to 500-550 range.

Of course that means more then 1-2 draft picks in the first 4. So far it's 3 to 5 in favor of the def. Oh and in FA? last years big sign, big fail, def which prevented them from looking for O. This year, big signs 2 lb's, preventing them from going O. Then they doubled down on the def in the draft too.

Fucking embarrassing for Fields. Entire gawdamned O is scraps while Poles and Flus pretend it's 20yrs ago.

Last Edit: Sept 1, 2023 5:27:18 GMT -6 by riczaj01

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