Bears sign DE Yannick Ngakoue.

davidl
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Bears sign DE Yannick Ngakoue. Aug 10, 2023 17:30:57 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Aug 10, 2023 17:30:57 GMT -6

Aug 10, 2023 7:16:13 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

Aug 7, 2023 9:20:28 GMT -6 davidl said:

They will run at him to see if he’s gotten any better at run defense. He was terrible last year.

It looks like Eberflus disagrees with that assessment. The following video is from one of Flus' pressers from about 5 days ago. He is specifically talking about Ngakoue and his skills and how much he can/will play.

It will start about 4 minutes in, to a point where he is talking specifically on their thoughts on how Ngakoue will be used and his skill set. About 30 - 40 seconds later he indicates that Ngakoue will play on 1st and 2nd downs as well as passing downs. And that "he is a 3-down player".

I was doing some more research on this and found the following clip form the Barroom Network's Greg Gabriel video podcast GTF (Greg Talks Football). The same subject discussed there (Is Ngakoue any good against the run?). Gabriel goes into his personal discussions with Ngakoue's previous coaches (including Rod Marinelli). The best short answer he gives was based on snap counts. Gabriel's research indicates that historically, Ngakoue has played 72% of all defensive snaps for all the teams he has played for. And he points out that if he was no good against the run, he would have a track record of paying exclusively on guaranteed passing down.

He sucks against the run. He doesn’t have the size/strength to not get blown off the line. He didn’t tackle hardly anybody. He had only 13 tackles. He’s pretty much a speed rusher. Maybe he worked on it in the off-season. In any case, you can bet they will test him. He’s been good enough pass rusher that teams are willing to accept the downside with the 72%.

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dachuckster
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Bears sign DE Yannick Ngakoue. Aug 10, 2023 18:04:33 GMT -6

Post by dachuckster on Aug 10, 2023 18:04:33 GMT -6

Aug 10, 2023 17:30:57 GMT -6 davidl said:

Aug 10, 2023 7:16:13 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

It looks like Eberflus disagrees with that assessment. The following video is from one of Flus' pressers from about 5 days ago. He is specifically talking about Ngakoue and his skills and how much he can/will play.

It will start about 4 minutes in, to a point where he is talking specifically on their thoughts on how Ngakoue will be used and his skill set. About 30 - 40 seconds later he indicates that Ngakoue will play on 1st and 2nd downs as well as passing downs. And that "he is a 3-down player".

I was doing some more research on this and found the following clip form the Barroom Network's Greg Gabriel video podcast GTF (Greg Talks Football). The same subject discussed there (Is Ngakoue any good against the run?). Gabriel goes into his personal discussions with Ngakoue's previous coaches (including Rod Marinelli). The best short answer he gives was based on snap counts. Gabriel's research indicates that historically, Ngakoue has played 72% of all defensive snaps for all the teams he has played for. And he points out that if he was no good against the run, he would have a track record of paying exclusively on guaranteed passing down.

He sucks against the run. He doesn’t have the size/strength to not get blown off the line. He didn’t tackle hardly anybody. He had only 13 tackles. He’s pretty much a speed rusher. Maybe he worked on it in the off-season. In any case, you can bet they will test him. He’s been good enough pass rusher that teams are willing to accept the downside with the 72%.

Over his career he has 65 sacks and 65 TFL. So I assume that these TFLs were all QBs and these all occurred as part of the pass rush?

I am not saying he is great against the run, just that he is good enough to stay in the game.

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davidl
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Bears sign DE Yannick Ngakoue. Aug 10, 2023 18:12:59 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Aug 10, 2023 18:12:59 GMT -6

Aug 10, 2023 18:04:33 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

Aug 10, 2023 17:30:57 GMT -6 davidl said:

He sucks against the run. He doesn’t have the size/strength to not get blown off the line. He didn’t tackle hardly anybody. He had only 13 tackles. He’s pretty much a speed rusher. Maybe he worked on it in the off-season. In any case, you can bet they will test him. He’s been good enough pass rusher that teams are willing to accept the downside with the 72%.

Over his career he has 65 sacks and 65 TFL. So I assume that these TFLs were all QBs and these all occurred as part of the pass rush?

I am not saying he is great against the run, just that he is good enough to stay in the game.

His pff grade against the run last year was 43.7. That’s terrible. His pass rushing is the only thing keeping him on the field. The Bears LBs this year may be good enough to compensate, though. We just have to accept it as part of the package.

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JABF
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Bears sign DE Yannick Ngakoue. Aug 10, 2023 18:19:03 GMT -6 davidl likes this

Post by JABF on Aug 10, 2023 18:19:03 GMT -6

Aug 10, 2023 18:12:59 GMT -6 davidl said:

The Bears LBs this year may be good enough to compensate, though. We just have to accept it as part of the package.

I was thinking along these lines too. I would expect the defense to adjust to give support in run situations. That's obviously not ideal. But it may mitigate his run D issues somewhat.

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brasilbear
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Bears sign DE Yannick Ngakoue. Aug 10, 2023 20:11:21 GMT -6 dachuckster likes this

Post by brasilbear on Aug 10, 2023 20:11:21 GMT -6

Unless I'm researching the wrong thing from profootball-reference, here are the rankings of the DEF he has played on in ryshing yards per attempt:

2022 (Indy) 5th (4.1)
2021 (LV) 10th (4.2)
2020 (Minn and Balt) too hard to figure out what each team did when he was traded midseason
2019 (Jax) 31th (5.1)
2018 (Jax) 14th (4.3)
2017 (Jax) 26th (4.3)
2016 (Jax) 6th (3.8)

He's been part of 3 top 10 rushing DEF and 2 bottom 6 rushing DEF. Without knowing more context (like how 4.1 to 4.3 can give a range from 26th to 5th...or who his teammates were) I would carefully say it isn't going to be the problem we think it is.

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dachuckster
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Bears sign DE Yannick Ngakoue. Aug 11, 2023 2:04:51 GMT -6 butkus3595 likes this

Post by dachuckster on Aug 11, 2023 2:04:51 GMT -6

Aug 10, 2023 20:11:21 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Unless I'm researching the wrong thing from profootball-reference, here are the rankings of the DEF he has played on in ryshing yards per attempt:

2022 (Indy) 5th (4.1)
2021 (LV) 10th (4.2)
2020 (Minn and Balt) too hard to figure out what each team did when he was traded midseason
2019 (Jax) 31th (5.1)
2018 (Jax) 14th (4.3)
2017 (Jax) 26th (4.3)
2016 (Jax) 6th (3.8)

He's been part of 3 top 10 rushing DEF and 2 bottom 6 rushing DEF. Without knowing more context (like how 4.1 to 4.3 can give a range from 26th to 5th...or who his teammates were) I would carefully say it isn't going to be the problem we think it is.

I don't think that anyone is minimizing his physical limitations. He is a DE whose advantages are speed, flexibility and decent upper body strength (28 bench press reps at the combine).

For him to be successful he needs to be in the right scheme. If you take the time to look at the videos on his performance, he is solid at gap discipline and he can set/hold an edge for a short/moderate amount of time. If he is in a scheme where there is strong, aggressive pursuit of the ball in the run game, he can be very productive.

This doesn't mean he will have huge tackles stats. It means he can hold an edge until the cavalry arrives. And he is really good at shooting his gap and getting in behind the blocking on plays. Again, he may not get the tackle stats, but he will be disruptive and force the ball carrier to look for alternate running lanes (once again, the cavalry gets credit but not Ngakoue).

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butkus3595
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Bears sign DE Yannick Ngakoue. Aug 11, 2023 8:12:20 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Aug 11, 2023 8:12:20 GMT -6

Aug 11, 2023 2:04:51 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

Aug 10, 2023 20:11:21 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Unless I'm researching the wrong thing from profootball-reference, here are the rankings of the DEF he has played on in ryshing yards per attempt:

2022 (Indy) 5th (4.1)
2021 (LV) 10th (4.2)
2020 (Minn and Balt) too hard to figure out what each team did when he was traded midseason
2019 (Jax) 31th (5.1)
2018 (Jax) 14th (4.3)
2017 (Jax) 26th (4.3)
2016 (Jax) 6th (3.8)

He's been part of 3 top 10 rushing DEF and 2 bottom 6 rushing DEF. Without knowing more context (like how 4.1 to 4.3 can give a range from 26th to 5th...or who his teammates were) I would carefully say it isn't going to be the problem we think it is.

I don't think that anyone is minimizing his physical limitations. He is a DE whose advantages are speed, flexibility and decent upper body strength (28 bench press reps at the combine).

For him to be successful he needs to be in the right scheme. If you take the time to look at the videos on his performance, he is solid at gap discipline and he can set/hold an edge for a short/moderate amount of time. If he is in a scheme where there is strong, aggressive pursuit of the ball in the run game, he can be very productive.

This doesn't mean he will have huge tackles stats. It means he can hold an edge until the cavalry arrives. And he is really good at shooting his gap and getting in behind the blocking on plays. Again, he may not get the tackle stats, but he will be disruptive and force the ball carrier to look for alternate running lanes (once again, the cavalry gets credit but not Ngakoue).

To your point, depending on what the scheme asks him to do, he can be disruptive against the run. Will he effectively set an edge? Probably not...but can he make things messy and difficult for the offensive line if he uses his speed? Absolutely.

I read somewhere he's played 34% of his total snaps against the run...I expect something of the same here...maybe a bump up to 40%. I think he'll be off the field on OBVIOUS run downs...but I expect him in on just about everything else.

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JABF
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Bears sign DE Yannick Ngakoue. Aug 11, 2023 8:12:23 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Aug 11, 2023 8:12:23 GMT -6

Aug 11, 2023 2:04:51 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

Aug 10, 2023 20:11:21 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Unless I'm researching the wrong thing from profootball-reference, here are the rankings of the DEF he has played on in ryshing yards per attempt:

2022 (Indy) 5th (4.1)
2021 (LV) 10th (4.2)
2020 (Minn and Balt) too hard to figure out what each team did when he was traded midseason
2019 (Jax) 31th (5.1)
2018 (Jax) 14th (4.3)
2017 (Jax) 26th (4.3)
2016 (Jax) 6th (3.8)

He's been part of 3 top 10 rushing DEF and 2 bottom 6 rushing DEF. Without knowing more context (like how 4.1 to 4.3 can give a range from 26th to 5th...or who his teammates were) I would carefully say it isn't going to be the problem we think it is.

I don't think that anyone is minimizing his physical limitations. He is a DE whose advantages are speed, flexibility and decent upper body strength (28 bench press reps at the combine).

For him to be successful he needs to be in the right scheme. If you take the time to look at the videos on his performance, he is solid at gap discipline and he can set/hold an edge for a short/moderate amount of time. If he is in a scheme where there is strong, aggressive pursuit of the ball in the run game, he can be very productive.

This doesn't mean he will have huge tackles stats. It means he can hold an edge until the cavalry arrives. And he is really good at shooting his gap and getting in behind the blocking on plays. Again, he may not get the tackle stats, but he will be disruptive and force the ball carrier to look for alternate running lanes (once again, the cavalry gets credit but not Ngakoue).

+1
And he's probably a 1-year stop gap guy that Poles will replace with a better player next year in the draft. I'm glad he's here this season though... simply because he CAN give the team some much needed pass rushing ability. LOL, better than a sharp stick in the eye, thing. I'm glad they signed him.

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dachuckster
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Bears sign DE Yannick Ngakoue. Aug 11, 2023 8:56:04 GMT -6 butkus3595 likes this

Post by dachuckster on Aug 11, 2023 8:56:04 GMT -6

Aug 11, 2023 8:12:20 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Aug 11, 2023 2:04:51 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

I don't think that anyone is minimizing his physical limitations. He is a DE whose advantages are speed, flexibility and decent upper body strength (28 bench press reps at the combine).

For him to be successful he needs to be in the right scheme. If you take the time to look at the videos on his performance, he is solid at gap discipline and he can set/hold an edge for a short/moderate amount of time. If he is in a scheme where there is strong, aggressive pursuit of the ball in the run game, he can be very productive.

This doesn't mean he will have huge tackles stats. It means he can hold an edge until the cavalry arrives. And he is really good at shooting his gap and getting in behind the blocking on plays. Again, he may not get the tackle stats, but he will be disruptive and force the ball carrier to look for alternate running lanes (once again, the cavalry gets credit but not Ngakoue).

To your point, depending on what the scheme asks him to do, he can be disruptive against the run. Will he effectively set an edge? Probably not...but can he make things messy and difficult for the offensive line if he uses his speed? Absolutely.

I read somewhere he's played 34% of his total snaps against the run...I expect something of the same here...maybe a bump up to 40%. I think he'll be off the field on OBVIOUS run downs...but I expect him in on just about everything else.

I believe that I was trying to say the same thing that you put in your post. If he can get in the way, get around a blocker, slow things down, etc.

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mpbears68
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Bears sign DE Yannick Ngakoue. Aug 11, 2023 11:28:36 GMT -6

Post by mpbears68 on Aug 11, 2023 11:28:36 GMT -6

Guys, just look at the market. It gives you the answer.

YN is a young, established quality edge rusher who doesn't have any significant injury or off-field concerns. We all know how coveted those are in the modern NFL game which is pass-oriented.

Why the hell was a guy like that still on the open market in August and settling for a one-year deal?

The answer is obvious. If he wasn't a liability against the run he would have be signed to a more lucrative deal back in March.

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Post by davidl on Aug 10, 2023 17:30:57 GMT -6

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Post by davidl on Aug 10, 2023 18:12:59 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Aug 10, 2023 18:19:03 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Aug 10, 2023 20:11:21 GMT -6

Post by dachuckster on Aug 11, 2023 2:04:51 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Aug 11, 2023 8:12:20 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Aug 11, 2023 8:12:23 GMT -6

Post by dachuckster on Aug 11, 2023 8:56:04 GMT -6

Post by mpbears68 on Aug 11, 2023 11:28:36 GMT -6