My thought was that, if you get Pittman in this deal, then that eliminates the danger that Boutte, Rice are gone when the Bears draft in the second round, leaving us with the same crap WRs again in 2023. Of course, if we get D-Hop in a trade, that drastically changes the draft priorities.
Well you can get a good WR in the 1st also, if you get both of Det's firsts you could get a D and WR in rd 1. All of this is not taking into account FA b/c we dont know who will be available or who the Bears will target.
Lions would be crazy to make that trade. There are no WR1 in free agency this year.
+1 That is exactly how I see it too. We have a pretty significant needs list. I'd like to see a deal that maximized picks in the first 3 (maybe even 4) rounds. The state of the roster is crying out for picks in this area of the draft. If Poles and our scouts are good, then they will get quality starters in that area of the draft. It's just the reality of the situation we find ourselves in right now.
I thought you were the guy you want “top-tier” talent and you can’t do it all in one year. You are going to get 7 picks in the first two rounds with the Colts trade plus a top-tier +++ player in Anderson or Carter.
If you accumulate a bunch of middle round draft picks, you end up with a bunch of mostly middle round talent. That doesn’t win Super Bowls.
YOU CAN’T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT, TOO!
I think we would get a couple top tier guys with a trade down and also quality starters who may not be top tier but at that next level - if Poles can judge talent well. I think that is different than "mostly middle round talent" - those top 60 to 90 guys taken in this draft won't be deadbeats unless Poles is poor at judging talent. And if he is poor at judging talent then we are screwed anyway.
Is this a bit of a buzz kill having to trade down? Sure. But this is the reality of the situation we find ourselves in. JMO.
I thought you were the guy you want “top-tier” talent and you can’t do it all in one year. You are going to get 7 picks in the first two rounds with the Colts trade plus a top-tier +++ player in Anderson or Carter.
If you accumulate a bunch of middle round draft picks, you end up with a bunch of mostly middle round talent. That doesn’t win Super Bowls.
YOU CAN’T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT, TOO!
I think we would get a couple top tier guys with a trade down and also quality starters who may not be top tier but at that next level - if Poles can judge talent well. I think that is different than "mostly middle round talent" - those top 60 to 90 guys taken in this draft won't be deadbeats unless Poles is poor at judging talent. And if he is poor at judging talent then we are screwed anyway.
Is this a bit of a buzz kill having to trade down? Sure. But this is the reality of the situation we find ourselves in. JMO.
I have looked at the Panthers trade vs. the Colts trade. I want THREE first round picks from the Panthers (a Trey Lance deal or more). Otherwise, you are trading away Anderson/Carter for about 400 points, if they follow the sacred chart. That’s a bad trade-off in my book.
Car looks to make a move now. While 9 puts you out of range for the top DE/DT there are still good def players available and the Panthers have I believe 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. This team doesn't need generational talent, they need A LOT OF talent. 1 player/position doesn't make this team even .500. They need talent at DE/DT/WR/RB/LB/TE/OT/OG/OC. That's also not just a 1yr job, going back to 9 gets you several picks this year in the first 3 rounds and at least 1 or 2 extra picks next year also.
A player like DT Bryan Bresee who is going to be able to penetrate into the backfield which Flus wants
Tyree Wilson Edge Who can be a DE and DT.
Could go OT w/Peter Skoronski who would walk on as a rookie and be the best OT the team has seen in a very long time.
Getting 2 shots in the 2nd round allow you to center on the other side of the ball.
DT's like Gerven Dextor or Byron Young
DE's like Felix Anudike-Uzomah or Andre Carter
Or on O you have
WR's like Rashee Rice and A.T. Perry taller/big bodied WR's
OT Darnell Wright, Anton Harrison
OG: Nick Broeker
OC: O'Cyrus Torrence
Get 3 or 4 of the above and you've already made your team better then getting one of the 2 elite and 1 of the above. And you'll likely have another shot in the 3rd or 4th + next year w/some more picks.
Couldn't agree more. We see very much eye to eye on this. That's why I have no problem trading out of the top-5.
Would I love to get Anderson? Of course (not interested in Carter).
But yeah ultimately we aren't just "one star player away". We need a whole bunch of talent upgrades on both sides of the ball. This draft thus far seems pretty lean on "must have talent". Anderson looks like the only the only real top-notch/top-5 prospect among non-QBs. There's no consensus stud WRs, CBs, or even OTs who are surefire top-5 picks.
Skoronski is a guy I've had my eye on too. He will probably go somewhere in the top-15 range. Would be plug-and-play RT starter for us week 1 with the potential to play LT if needed after a year in the NFL. Hopefully have 2 young solid OTs then.
I think we would get a couple top tier guys with a trade down and also quality starters who may not be top tier but at that next level - if Poles can judge talent well. I think that is different than "mostly middle round talent" - those top 60 to 90 guys taken in this draft won't be deadbeats unless Poles is poor at judging talent. And if he is poor at judging talent then we are screwed anyway.
Is this a bit of a buzz kill having to trade down? Sure. But this is the reality of the situation we find ourselves in. JMO.
I have looked at the Panthers trade vs. the Colts trade. I want THREE first round picks from the Panthers (a Trey Lance deal or more). Otherwise, you are trading away Anderson/Carter for about 400 points, if they follow the sacred chart. That’s a bad trade-off in my book.
This is the current NFL draft chart, the one that everyone is outdated.
I wouldn't want a teams draft pick from 2 yrs from now. Get x amount of picks in the first 2 years. A positive in net value, let alone 400 is a positive, it means you got more then you should have.
Nothing says Anderson is going to be anything, could be and should be, but People thought Solomon Tomas and Vita Vea would be great, they weren't. Shaq Lawrence hasn't done much of anything compared to his draft pick.
That being said, the Bears need to get the most picks they can, that's the point. If they can snag 3 first in the next 3 years and a few 2nd's-4th round picks this year i'm down.
1 player isn't worth the potential of 3+
Thats why you need multiple picks. You need as many shots in the first 3 rounds, specifically the first 2. Every pick is potential boom and bust, even the first 1-5.
Car looks to make a move now. While 9 puts you out of range for the top DE/DT there are still good def players available and the Panthers have I believe 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. This team doesn't need generational talent, they need A LOT OF talent. 1 player/position doesn't make this team even .500. They need talent at DE/DT/WR/RB/LB/TE/OT/OG/OC. That's also not just a 1yr job, going back to 9 gets you several picks this year in the first 3 rounds and at least 1 or 2 extra picks next year also.
A player like DT Bryan Bresee who is going to be able to penetrate into the backfield which Flus wants
Tyree Wilson Edge Who can be a DE and DT.
Could go OT w/Peter Skoronski who would walk on as a rookie and be the best OT the team has seen in a very long time.
Getting 2 shots in the 2nd round allow you to center on the other side of the ball.
DT's like Gerven Dextor or Byron Young
DE's like Felix Anudike-Uzomah or Andre Carter
Or on O you have
WR's like Rashee Rice and A.T. Perry taller/big bodied WR's
OT Darnell Wright, Anton Harrison
OG: Nick Broeker
OC: O'Cyrus Torrence
Get 3 or 4 of the above and you've already made your team better then getting one of the 2 elite and 1 of the above. And you'll likely have another shot in the 3rd or 4th + next year w/some more picks.
Couldn't agree more. We see very much eye to eye on this. That's why I have no problem trading out of the top-5.
Would I love to get Anderson? Of course (not interested in Carter).
But yeah ultimately we aren't just "one star player away". We need a whole bunch of talent upgrades on both sides of the ball. This draft thus far seems pretty lean on "must have talent". Anderson looks like the only the only real top-notch/top-5 prospect among non-QBs. There's no consensus stud WRs, CBs, or even OTs who are surefire top-5 picks.
Skoronski is a guy I've had my eye on too. He will probably go somewhere in the top-15 range. Would be plug-and-play RT starter for us week 1 with the potential to play LT if needed after a year in the NFL. Hopefully have 2 young solid OTs then.
I agree, and I want this GM/HC to prioritize the OL and WR not w/throwing bodies at it like the kicker camp they had a few years ago, but w/actual quality shots in the draft and FA.
Couldn't agree more. We see very much eye to eye on this. That's why I have no problem trading out of the top-5.
Would I love to get Anderson? Of course (not interested in Carter).
But yeah ultimately we aren't just "one star player away". We need a whole bunch of talent upgrades on both sides of the ball. This draft thus far seems pretty lean on "must have talent". Anderson looks like the only the only real top-notch/top-5 prospect among non-QBs. There's no consensus stud WRs, CBs, or even OTs who are surefire top-5 picks.
Skoronski is a guy I've had my eye on too. He will probably go somewhere in the top-15 range. Would be plug-and-play RT starter for us week 1 with the potential to play LT if needed after a year in the NFL. Hopefully have 2 young solid OTs then.
I agree, and I want this GM/HC to prioritize the OL and WR not w/throwing bodies at it like the kicker camp they had a few years ago, but w/actual quality shots in the draft and FA.
Ric, you explain this better than me because I have been trying to say the same thing. I get it, that the WR draft this year is not that good at the very top. But that doesn't mean you can't draft a quality WR. I call those guys top-tier talents. It is not wrong to expect Poles to (as you say) take quality shots at acquiring that talent. Same with the OL. And I guess some folks think I'm stupid or something and don't understand that we won't get all of that this year - and we won't get perfect. Nobody in the NFL ever gets perfect. But the good teams go all in to at least TRY to get the best talent. To take actual quality shots in the draft and FA. And I get it also that you don't let the defense rot. Sure, there will be plenty of opportunities to improve the defense in '23 and '24. My point though, is that I'm tired of the offense taking the back seat to the defense - and when the offense sucks, everyone pisses and moans about it. This isn't rocket science. If you want a great offense, then acquire great offensive players. Right?
I have looked at the Panthers trade vs. the Colts trade. I want THREE first round picks from the Panthers (a Trey Lance deal or more). Otherwise, you are trading away Anderson/Carter for about 400 points, if they follow the sacred chart. That’s a bad trade-off in my book.
This is the current NFL draft chart, the one that everyone is outdated.
I wouldn't want a teams draft pick from 2 yrs from now. Get x amount of picks in the first 2 years. A positive in net value, let alone 400 is a positive, it means you got more then you should have.
Nothing says Anderson is going to be anything, could be and should be, but People thought Solomon Tomas and Vita Vea would be great, they weren't. Shaq Lawrence hasn't done much of anything compared to his draft pick.
That being said, the Bears need to get the most picks they can, that's the point. If they can snag 3 first in the next 3 years and a few 2nd's-4th round picks this year i'm down.
1 player isn't worth the potential of 3+
Thats why you need multiple picks. You need as many shots in the first 3 rounds, specifically the first 2. Every pick is potential boom and bust, even the first 1-5.
According to the sacred chart the incremental difference between Colts/Panthers trade is 450 points (1800-1350). That’s NOT 3 players, unless you’re taking players BELOW 2nd round level. Otherwise, you’re trading Anderson/Carter for ONE extra second round pick. I don’t think that’s worth it, but opinions differ.
There is a misconception that the Colts trade creates a shortage of picks. According to the sacred chart, they would owe us 1200 points 3000-1800), which makes the trade about = in points if they give us their top 3 picks in 2023. In that case, the Bears get picks 4,35,56,65,67,103,134,136,148,220. Of course, you could dilute the pick even more, but every step down is trading quality for quantity. I say the Colts trade gives a good balance.
This is the current NFL draft chart, the one that everyone is outdated.
I wouldn't want a teams draft pick from 2 yrs from now. Get x amount of picks in the first 2 years. A positive in net value, let alone 400 is a positive, it means you got more then you should have.
Nothing says Anderson is going to be anything, could be and should be, but People thought Solomon Tomas and Vita Vea would be great, they weren't. Shaq Lawrence hasn't done much of anything compared to his draft pick.
That being said, the Bears need to get the most picks they can, that's the point. If they can snag 3 first in the next 3 years and a few 2nd's-4th round picks this year i'm down.
1 player isn't worth the potential of 3+
Thats why you need multiple picks. You need as many shots in the first 3 rounds, specifically the first 2. Every pick is potential boom and bust, even the first 1-5.
According to the sacred chart the incremental difference between Colts/Panthers trade is 450 points (1800-1350). That’s NOT 3 players, unless you’re taking players BELOW 2nd round level. Otherwise, you’re trading Anderson/Carter for ONE extra second round pick. I don’t think that’s worth it, but opinions differ.
There is a misconception that the Colts trade creates a shortage of picks. According to the sacred chart, they would owe us 1200 points 3000-1800), which makes the trade about = in points if they give us their top 3 picks in 2023. In that case, the Bears get picks 4,35,56,65,67,103,134,136,148,220. Of course, you could dilute the pick even more, but every step down is trading quality for quantity. I say the Colts trade gives a good balance.
What golden chart are you using? Link it, is it the old Johnson one? if so it's not the one used anymore, no one in the NFL uses it.
This is the current NFL draft chart, the one that everyone is outdated.
I wouldn't want a teams draft pick from 2 yrs from now. Get x amount of picks in the first 2 years. A positive in net value, let alone 400 is a positive, it means you got more then you should have.
Nothing says Anderson is going to be anything, could be and should be, but People thought Solomon Tomas and Vita Vea would be great, they weren't. Shaq Lawrence hasn't done much of anything compared to his draft pick.
That being said, the Bears need to get the most picks they can, that's the point. If they can snag 3 first in the next 3 years and a few 2nd's-4th round picks this year i'm down.
1 player isn't worth the potential of 3+
Thats why you need multiple picks. You need as many shots in the first 3 rounds, specifically the first 2. Every pick is potential boom and bust, even the first 1-5.
According to the sacred chart the incremental difference between Colts/Panthers trade is 450 points (1800-1350). That’s NOT 3 players, unless you’re taking players BELOW 2nd round level. Otherwise, you’re trading Anderson/Carter for ONE extra second round pick. I don’t think that’s worth it, but opinions differ.
There is a misconception that the Colts trade creates a shortage of picks. According to the sacred chart, they would owe us 1200 points 3000-1800), which makes the trade about = in points if they give us their top 3 picks in 2023. In that case, the Bears get picks 4,35,56,65,67,103,134,136,148,220. Of course, you could dilute the pick even more, but every step down is trading quality for quantity. I say the Colts trade gives a good balance.
I have to believe the chart is a valuable help in these trades but in the end if a team is really coveting that pick we have, they may give somewhat more than the chart value. It's like an auction. If the bidding goes up, well they don't stop the auction. They let the bidder pay what he is willing to pay for something he wants that badly. I hope that happens here. I hope a team wants a QB so badly in this draft that they pay us well. Overpaying the chart is okay. Or maybe we can harvest a good veteran player in the trade also. What I focus on, are the players in the first 60 or so picks. In your example above it would be those 5 picks: 4,35,56,65,67. I'm hoping that Poles can leverage some scenario like that into 5 quality starters. I'm not saying All-Pro guys but just rock solid starters that make our team better. I believe Poles should also get good players in that 60-90 pick range too. After 90 well, you can get lucky and get a great player (Braxton Jones is the poster boy for that, and so is Mooney) but it's more of a hit-and-miss thing.