Great article for the PFF fans....

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Great article for the PFF fans.... Dec 1, 2016 6:08:01 GMT -6 via mobile

Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 6:08:01 GMT -6

Nov 30, 2016 21:30:23 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

[, : There are plenty of posters (myself included from time to time) who make specific claims about a specific player during a specific play and assign blame (OL pass blocking, QB reads, WR routes, and breakdowns in coverages being the 4 most common. Fans typically (at least here) don't make global judgments, they make specific judgments that are influenced by their assumptions and biases toward players

I rarely read posts that breakdown plays.
When I do, the post breaks down 1-2 plays.
1-2 plays doesn't tell the story of a game or a player.
in instances where the play is broken down, the analyzer doesn't know the responsibilities so it's speculation

Again, PFFs ratings amount to stronger, more objective, and more normalized analysis than anything else posted here AND on most 'pro' columns.

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riczaj01 Administrator Posts: 11,460 Likes: 10,242	Great article for the PFF fans.... Dec 1, 2016 6:11:51 GMT -6 butkus3595 likes this Post by riczaj01 on Dec 1, 2016 6:11:51 GMT -6 But Belliott, their normalized analysis is based on flawed logic making it next to useless for anyone not on the team. Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

germansbombedph
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Great article for the PFF fans.... Dec 1, 2016 7:07:18 GMT -6

Post by germansbombedph on Dec 1, 2016 7:07:18 GMT -6

Dec 1, 2016 6:08:01 GMT -6 @belliot said:

Nov 30, 2016 21:30:23 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

[, : There are plenty of posters (myself included from time to time) who make specific claims about a specific player during a specific play and assign blame (OL pass blocking, QB reads, WR routes, and breakdowns in coverages being the 4 most common. Fans typically (at least here) don't make global judgments, they make specific judgments that are influenced by their assumptions and biases toward players

I rarely read posts that breakdown plays.
When I do, the post breaks down 1-2 plays.
1-2 plays doesn't tell the story of a game or a player.
in instances where the play is broken down, the analyzer doesn't know the responsibilities so it's speculation

Again, PFFs ratings amount to stronger, more objective, and more normalized analysis than anything else posted here AND on most 'pro' columns.

I won't disagree with that, but at some certain Plays you can see if a guy has the smarts or instincs needed - or not. There are times I think Floyd is a bust, at least at the start of the season. There was always that 1 Play that showed you some promise to build on. That one Play. Same with Barklay, there were 1-2 Plays that Show you why he was a Top ranked prospect entering his draft year, he fell, but you can see why Scouts liked him early on. He has shown some smarts against the Titans and I'm willing to say that you can build on this.

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Great article for the PFF fans.... Dec 1, 2016 7:16:18 GMT -6 via mobile

Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 7:16:18 GMT -6

Dec 1, 2016 6:11:51 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

But Belliott, their normalized analysis is based on flawed logic making it next to useless for anyone not on the team.

I find their ratings highly informative and accurate. I've gone back and watched all-22 film with my GamePass acct and focused in on players they've graded diff than my first glance warranted. In every instance they were more accurate than me.

I think the mocking of PFF is ignorant. PfF staff doesn't know know the specific expectations of each player but they can grade a player when he wins, draws, and loses. That's what they do. They do it well.

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JABF
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Great article for the PFF fans.... Dec 1, 2016 7:31:24 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Dec 1, 2016 7:31:24 GMT -6

It's not worth getting worked up over PFF, Football Outsiders, or any of the rating sources. Even the player stats taken off sites like nfl.com and Pro-football History, are not all-encompassing in describing a player. But that doesn't mean these sources are not worthwhile. They are.

I do agree that us fans often get it wrong. And that's okay. We are fans, and we can believe anything we want - even if it is ignorant - and I include myself here. I find that I am often wrong about a player and they end up being better or worse than I thought, and posted about. Life goes on though
:-)

It is not worth getting worked up over.

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butkus3595
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Great article for the PFF fans.... Dec 1, 2016 9:20:06 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Dec 1, 2016 9:20:06 GMT -6

Dec 1, 2016 7:16:18 GMT -6 @belliot said:

Dec 1, 2016 6:11:51 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

But Belliott, their normalized analysis is based on flawed logic making it next to useless for anyone not on the team.

I find their ratings highly informative and accurate. I've gone back and watched all-22 film with my GamePass acct and focused in on players they've graded diff than my first glance warranted. In every instance they were more accurate than me.

I think the mocking of PFF is ignorant. PfF staff doesn't know know the specific expectations of each player but they can grade a player when he wins, draws, and loses. That's what they do. They do it well.

Except they don't know what that player is supposed to do...so how do they know if he's really won, lost, or draws? Thats the main point. So they grade players...awesome. But without knowing the specifics what does that really tell you?

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riczaj01
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Great article for the PFF fans.... Dec 1, 2016 13:30:16 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Dec 1, 2016 13:30:16 GMT -6

Dec 1, 2016 7:16:18 GMT -6 @belliot said:

Dec 1, 2016 6:11:51 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

But Belliott, their normalized analysis is based on flawed logic making it next to useless for anyone not on the team.

I find their ratings highly informative and accurate. I've gone back and watched all-22 film with my GamePass acct and focused in on players they've graded diff than my first glance warranted. In every instance they were more accurate than me.

I think the mocking of PFF is ignorant. PfF staff doesn't know know the specific expectations of each player but they can grade a player when he wins, draws, and loses. That's what they do. They do it well.

Then you are reading it looking for something to prove a belief. b/c their grades are awful. Especially when it comes to grading players 1-100.

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Great article for the PFF fans.... Dec 1, 2016 15:40:28 GMT -6 via mobile motm likes this

Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 15:40:28 GMT -6

Dec 1, 2016 9:20:06 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Dec 1, 2016 7:16:18 GMT -6 @belliot said:

I find their ratings highly informative and accurate. I've gone back and watched all-22 film with my GamePass acct and focused in on players they've graded diff than my first glance warranted. In every instance they were more accurate than me.

I think the mocking of PFF is ignorant. PfF staff doesn't know know the specific expectations of each player but they can grade a player when he wins, draws, and loses. That's what they do. They do it well.

Except they don't know what that player is supposed to do...so how do they know if he's really won, lost, or draws? Thats the main point. So they grade players...awesome. But without knowing the specifics what does that really tell you?

Do you know the specifics? Do I? Does anyone on this board? No.

Still, we could look at any given play and make an inference about whether they won their battle or lost it. In the event we couldn't tell we could call it a draw OR we could not count it.

That's what they do. That works. Is it perfect? No. Is it better than poster's opinions? Yes because it takes into consideration the entire game - every play without over or under emphasizing a given play.

That's my last comment on the matter. If it makes sense, cool. If not, whatever.

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Great article for the PFF fans.... Dec 1, 2016 15:42:51 GMT -6 butkus3595 likes this

Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 15:42:51 GMT -6

Nov 30, 2016 9:36:29 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Nov 30, 2016 9:11:21 GMT -6 @belliot said:

The obvious inference I draw from this article is no one can grade players except for those inside the building... I guess we should all shut up and just watch because our opinions are worthless since we don't know what they are doing...

For the millionth time, I will take PFFs grades over message board chatter and opinion every day of the week. The PFF guys actually watch every player on every play unlike message board coaches and GMs who won't even tune in to watch their team finish a game but will dish out their deflated ball without thought...

I'm not saying we can't have opinions...but they are just that...opinions. The difference between us and PFF is we aren't charging anyone for our opinions...they're free. I'm just saying I take PFF grades with a grain of salt. They're nice...but at the end of the day they have slightly more of a clue than I do, and thats only because they watch film(which if I wanted to pay the NFL for the all 22 look I could do to). After that we're even.

Shit.... I've been charging for mine.

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riczaj01
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Great article for the PFF fans.... Dec 1, 2016 16:16:57 GMT -6 butkus3595 likes this

Post by riczaj01 on Dec 1, 2016 16:16:57 GMT -6

Dec 1, 2016 15:40:28 GMT -6 @belliot said:

Dec 1, 2016 9:20:06 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Except they don't know what that player is supposed to do...so how do they know if he's really won, lost, or draws? Thats the main point. So they grade players...awesome. But without knowing the specifics what does that really tell you?

Do you know the specifics? Do I? Does anyone on this board? No.

Still, we could look at any given play and make an inference about whether they won their battle or lost it. In the event we couldn't tell we could call it a draw OR we could not count it.

That's what they do. That works. Is it perfect? No. Is it better than poster's opinions? Yes because it takes into consideration the entire game - every play without over or under emphasizing a given play.

That's my last comment on the matter. If it makes sense, cool. If not, whatever.

More often then not it doesn't work, for entire teams it not only doesn't work it's flat wrong.

It's great in theory, it's works in a college university where there is no win or lose. In production it fails miserably w/out the managers/owners ability to add in the rest of the equation of what is going on and being able to remove the bad information.

When management/ownership doesn't you get wozers that don't add up to what you are seeing like JWebb a good OT, or Shea being a great DE, and ya those are my go to's, but I guarantee there are others on other teams that are just as outrageous.

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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 6:08:01 GMT -6

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Post by riczaj01 on Dec 1, 2016 16:16:57 GMT -6