Draft strategy with a top-3 draft pick

dachuckster
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Draft strategy with a top-3 draft pick Nov 23, 2016 7:43:22 GMT -6

Post by dachuckster on Nov 23, 2016 7:43:22 GMT -6

Nov 23, 2016 5:41:05 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Nov 23, 2016 1:53:10 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

A lot of other teams passed on Prescott as well. IMO Dak landed in the perfect place to start his career as a QB. A veteran team with a stellar OL, a RB who may develop into the #1 or #2 RB in the NFL and solid receivers.

I am a fan of Prescott as a QB and liked him going into the draft a lot. But putting any inexperienced QB behind our current OL could easily be a disaster for the QBs long term development.
I am not trying to argue against taking a QB early in next years draft. Just that we have lots of work to do with our OL and getting a top prospect at QB may not work out as positively as we would hope.

That OL in Dal is great and is helping, but don't do that to Dak. All reports were the kid spent all offseason prepping himself to transition into an NFL QB from a college QB, he worked on his footwork and throwing motion; and it's showing.

Again we've all seen QB's that had all the time in the world not be able to hit the broad side of a barn. That OL isn't making him accurate or making the correct choices for him; they help limit the rush to stop him from having to make hurried choices but what he is doing is stunning. IF it was just the OL Romo would be starting when healthy.

Would he be a MVP/pro bowl candidate in Chicago, no, but he'd be better then Hoyer and Cutler b/c the guy worked his ass off to get where he is.

Nov 23, 2016 6:12:54 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Yeah I don't understand the knocking down of Dak and EE because they play in Dallas. Plenty of QBs and RBs have played behind good OLs and haven't done well. Like ric mentioned, the vision, the speed/burst, the decision making, the accuracy, the leadership..all of these are independent of the OL. EE would have better stats here in Chicago than Howard does. Howard has gotten some huge holes to run through, lets not pretend that Howard is doing it all on his own. But some of those runs where Howard gets dragged down from behind, EE takes to the bank. EE is just better, no fault in that, its not knocking Howard.

I am not knocking Dak. He already is a solid NFL QB and will likely develop into a very good NFL QB.

I am knocking teams who throw a rookie QB in and let them sink or swim and who do not have a clue as to putting together a coherent development program for a new QB (can you save Cleveland or Chicago? I knew you could). To go past OLs, how would you compare the Cowboy's offensive coaching staff to ours for developing players? Prescott (and Elliott) benefit from better supporting casts and that goes beyond the OL.

I like Pace (or at least a majority of his drafting and personnel moves so far). I like Fangio and his staff. They are getting solid performance out of players that many would have discarded. Who thought he would get the level of play he did out of CornWash? IMO that is all coaching.

But I thought that George McCaskey was going to really clip Phillips wings and it looks like he did not. Fox currently could be rated meh at the very best and more likely will be rated as well below average. Loggains outside of a solid game plan against the Vikes really has shown me nothing.

I don't think Dak or Wentz or Goff or whoever would flourish in our environment. And until that changes, we will continue to suck, regardless of who we take as a QB.

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riczaj01
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Draft strategy with a top-3 draft pick Nov 23, 2016 7:44:06 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Nov 23, 2016 7:44:06 GMT -6

agree w/all that JABF.

Leno is like the Cutler of LT's, he's not elite, he's probably at his best average, and I'm all for those guys getting replaced. But right now Leno is a young Cutler where the question of his ceiling has shown high or low, Cutler has shown a low ceiling so that need is higher. Sadly RT is also higher b/c Leno cannot play RT. DE is also higher, as is CB and S; and if Jeffery leaves WR and TE needs upgraded also.

The team has in place w/no help
OC
OG
RB
ILB
OLB
P
That's a good start, but hardly where you need to be as it's missing the key position and a few others, DE, CB S, OT.

Should be interesting to see what they do in FA, if anything. my guess they'll try and bring back Hoyer as a backup/mentor. And they'll try and bring in better OL help and that's about it. Then they'll try and replace the rests via the draft.

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riczaj01
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Draft strategy with a top-3 draft pick Nov 23, 2016 7:57:13 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Nov 23, 2016 7:57:13 GMT -6

Nov 23, 2016 7:43:22 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

Nov 23, 2016 5:41:05 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

That OL in Dal is great and is helping, but don't do that to Dak. All reports were the kid spent all offseason prepping himself to transition into an NFL QB from a college QB, he worked on his footwork and throwing motion; and it's showing.

Again we've all seen QB's that had all the time in the world not be able to hit the broad side of a barn. That OL isn't making him accurate or making the correct choices for him; they help limit the rush to stop him from having to make hurried choices but what he is doing is stunning. IF it was just the OL Romo would be starting when healthy.

Would he be a MVP/pro bowl candidate in Chicago, no, but he'd be better then Hoyer and Cutler b/c the guy worked his ass off to get where he is.

Nov 23, 2016 6:12:54 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Yeah I don't understand the knocking down of Dak and EE because they play in Dallas. Plenty of QBs and RBs have played behind good OLs and haven't done well. Like ric mentioned, the vision, the speed/burst, the decision making, the accuracy, the leadership..all of these are independent of the OL. EE would have better stats here in Chicago than Howard does. Howard has gotten some huge holes to run through, lets not pretend that Howard is doing it all on his own. But some of those runs where Howard gets dragged down from behind, EE takes to the bank. EE is just better, no fault in that, its not knocking Howard.

I am not knocking Dak. He already is a solid NFL QB and will likely develop into a very good NFL QB.

I am knocking teams who throw a rookie QB in and let them sink or swim and who do not have a clue as to putting together a coherent development program for a new QB (can you save Cleveland or Chicago? I knew you could). To go past OLs, how would you compare the Cowboy's offensive coaching staff to ours for developing players? Prescott (and Elliott) benefit from better supporting casts and that goes beyond the OL.

I like Pace (or at least a majority of his drafting and personnel moves so far). I like Fangio and his staff. They are getting solid performance out of players that many would have discarded. Who thought he would get the level of play he did out of CornWash? IMO that is all coaching.

But I thought that George McCaskey was going to really clip Phillips wings and it looks like he did not. Fox currently could be rated meh at the very best and more likely will be rated as well below average. Loggains outside of a solid game plan against the Vikes really has shown me nothing.

I don't think Dak or Wentz or Goff or whoever would flourish in our environment. And until that changes, we will continue to suck, regardless of who we take as a QB.

Cleveland is bad, but they do try and put decent pieces around the qb, but they normally draft bad qb's. They've twice passed on qb's w/a top 10 pick to take on support and then drafted Manziel and Quinn. You could watch Quinn and know he wasn't going to be good, you just saw it on the field. Manziel that that "winner" montage going on, but in the NFL where the talent evens out that normally isn't enough for shortcomings; if the player isn't willing to work at it....Manziel wasn't.

The Bears have rarely tried to draft a qb worth a damn, and even more rare w/a high 1st round pick(Rex/Cade/Harbaugh were 20's). Last qb that the Bears took w/a top 5 pick, McMahon; they did alright w/him didn't they? The last time they took a QB that high, Bobby Williams w/the #1 overall pick in 1951. 2 QB's in the top 5, top 10, top 15 picks since 1951. Wanna know why the Bears have a bad qb history? It's not the OL, the WR, the RB, the OC, the HC. It's that they don't draft them; they don't try to get qb's early.

A young Qb definitely needs a solid OL, a good RB and good targets. Right now IMO they are a RT and some depth from being there. If the Bears let AJ go, and don't replace him and don't get a TE behind Miller that is equally good then ya a young QB is going to struggle until that happens.

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brasilbear
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Draft strategy with a top-3 draft pick Nov 23, 2016 7:59:13 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Nov 23, 2016 7:59:13 GMT -6

Nov 23, 2016 7:43:22 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

Nov 23, 2016 5:41:05 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

That OL in Dal is great and is helping, but don't do that to Dak. All reports were the kid spent all offseason prepping himself to transition into an NFL QB from a college QB, he worked on his footwork and throwing motion; and it's showing.

Again we've all seen QB's that had all the time in the world not be able to hit the broad side of a barn. That OL isn't making him accurate or making the correct choices for him; they help limit the rush to stop him from having to make hurried choices but what he is doing is stunning. IF it was just the OL Romo would be starting when healthy.

Would he be a MVP/pro bowl candidate in Chicago, no, but he'd be better then Hoyer and Cutler b/c the guy worked his ass off to get where he is.

Nov 23, 2016 6:12:54 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Yeah I don't understand the knocking down of Dak and EE because they play in Dallas. Plenty of QBs and RBs have played behind good OLs and haven't done well. Like ric mentioned, the vision, the speed/burst, the decision making, the accuracy, the leadership..all of these are independent of the OL. EE would have better stats here in Chicago than Howard does. Howard has gotten some huge holes to run through, lets not pretend that Howard is doing it all on his own. But some of those runs where Howard gets dragged down from behind, EE takes to the bank. EE is just better, no fault in that, its not knocking Howard.

I am not knocking Dak. He already is a solid NFL QB and will likely develop into a very good NFL QB.

I am knocking teams who throw a rookie QB in and let them sink or swim and who do not have a clue as to putting together a coherent development program for a new QB (can you save Cleveland or Chicago? I knew you could). To go past OLs, how would you compare the Cowboy's offensive coaching staff to ours for developing players? Prescott (and Elliott) benefit from better supporting casts and that goes beyond the OL.

I like Pace (or at least a majority of his drafting and personnel moves so far). I like Fangio and his staff. They are getting solid performance out of players that many would have discarded. Who thought he would get the level of play he did out of CornWash? IMO that is all coaching.

But I thought that George McCaskey was going to really clip Phillips wings and it looks like he did not. Fox currently could be rated meh at the very best and more likely will be rated as well below average. Loggains outside of a solid game plan against the Vikes really has shown me nothing.

I don't think Dak or Wentz or Goff or whoever would flourish in our environment. And until that changes, we will continue to suck, regardless of who we take as a QB.

I don't disagree. Dak would have bombed out in Chicago and we'd be discussing what a wasted pick that was. My comment was more along the lines of the guys that dismiss Dak and EE as only being products of the OL and having no talent in their own.

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riczaj01 Administrator Posts: 11,460 Likes: 10,242	Draft strategy with a top-3 draft pick Nov 23, 2016 9:03:01 GMT -6 Post by riczaj01 on Nov 23, 2016 9:03:01 GMT -6 I don't think there is a reason to believe Dak would have bombed out here; might have got injured but not sure he bombs out. Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

brasilbear
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Draft strategy with a top-3 draft pick Nov 23, 2016 9:18:08 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Nov 23, 2016 9:18:08 GMT -6

Nov 23, 2016 9:03:01 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

I don't think there is a reason to believe Dak would have bombed out here; might have got injured but not sure he bombs out.

How about "doesn't have the same level of success." I could have written that better.

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butkus3595
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Draft strategy with a top-3 draft pick Nov 23, 2016 9:36:58 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Nov 23, 2016 9:36:58 GMT -6

It will be interesting to see how the off season plays out. I don't much about many of the o-lineman who are free agents out there, but there doesn't seem to be any stud defensive ends available. Dontari Poe is a free agent and wouldn't be too bad, and I'd love to see them sign Tony Jefferson to man a safety spot. All that will affect how the draft plays out.

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