This was excellent! One think that really struck me, and reinforces my opinion that Pace is not the guy, was when he commented about the last thing you do is draft a wide receiver early unless you have all the pieces in place. Pace failed to properly analyze what the Bears had and what was needed and selected a bust wide receiver in Kevin White. We’ve been paying for that ever since.
1 that was his first draft, 2 we had a qb(cutler) Not sure that is really good example. Needless to say he has grown. If he were to draft one now, ya that would be a giant sign.
biggest neg on him is that he hasn't drafted tench guys early yet; and that might well be an indicator. He wants qb and lb's mostly. It will be interesting to see if he's continued to grow.
It was his first draft no doubt, but he failed to evaluate the team properly and drafted a position that no matter how good he was, he wasn’t going to make a difference as the foundation pieces weren’t in place. He still hasn’t drafted trench guys nor has he addressed the qb position other than failed free agents and Mitch. We’re now draft capital light and without a solid qb in place going into next season.
1 that was his first draft, 2 we had a qb(cutler) Not sure that is really good example. Needless to say he has grown. If he were to draft one now, ya that would be a giant sign.
biggest neg on him is that he hasn't drafted tench guys early yet; and that might well be an indicator. He wants qb and lb's mostly. It will be interesting to see if he's continued to grow.
It was his first draft no doubt, but he failed to evaluate the team properly and drafted a position that no matter how good he was, he wasn’t going to make a difference as the foundation pieces weren’t in place. He still hasn’t drafted trench guys nor has he addressed the qb position other than failed free agents and Mitch. We’re now draft capital light and without a solid qb in place going into next season.
Well I will continue to point out, most teams aren't going to draft a qb w/1st rd choice on their rookie deal, it just doesn't happen. Did Hou or KC draft a qb? Philly drafted a 5th round nobody in Wentz's 4th year; that guy never was on their roster and of the 3 qb's to make an attempt in 2019 that qb wasn't one of them. Would that have made people happy, throw away a 5th round pick on a shitty qb that stood 0% of making the roster? Hey he would have drafted one?
Jets wasted a pick like Philly did on James Morgan in the 4th; of the 4 qb's that took snaps for them this year, none named Morgan. Hey but they drafted one right!
KC still hasn't drafted one, those bums. Texans? Nope, what are they thinking? Miami drafted 1 qb, in the 6th rd on Tannehill's 4th year, and then not again until last year. It just doesn't happen unless you are 100% sold that he isn't the guy. The Bears weren't ever there, even this year they weren't there. So they didn't draft one, which is the correct option when you have limited picks to begin with.
The Bears neither had the draft capital(Mack + every other trade) to use one on a qb that wasn't going to see the field. Drafting a qb in the 4th or 5th is like buying a $1 and hoping to win a million. Worse the team needed every one of those picks it had b/c, and again this is a legit complaint for Pace, he doesn't value draft picks enough to stock pile them. He'd rather spend his capital on fewer picks higher in the draft then he's setting then fall back and garner more. There was 0 way he could use one of his 3-5 picks on a qb that was never going to make the team, let alone see the field when he needed them for guys that would make the team and hopefully could see the field.
Now is the time to spend a early pick on a QB.
There are legit criticms of Pace, but White and not drafting a qb aren't it. Pace had a QB and needed a WR for him to throw to. Should he have taken something else, sure looking back now, but at the time it was the obvious choice b/c Marshal was gone. Pace's inability to stand pat, and preferably drop back is a legit reason to not like him, his inability to look at the trenches as areas of need are also; although Whitehair/Daniel show growth in that spot; but if he got Whitehair/Daniel/Mustipher/Bars as interior OL all from early picks->UDFA maybe he's starting to figure it out. He's also got Nichols and RRH and Goldman early-UDFA. Maybe he's starting to figure it out, which would make sense b/c he was incredibly young when he took the job over.
Every one of those guys are + players on this roster, all trench guys also.
I have a higher lvl of what I want out of a GM, but as I posted in another thread, you need 2 hits in every draft; and so far Pace has 2 hits in every draft. Me I want 1-2 starters and 2-3 depth guys. And in most drafts he's been able to do that. Doesn't matter where he hits or misses, every GM misses, every GM misses early and late. Get guys that can take the field and play and you are doing your job. Reality is the biggest issue w/this roster is the QB, he missed and it happens, and the coaches misusing the talent he's got them. Pagano and Nagy have failed more then the players have. Even w/all that 0 losing seasons 2 shots at the playoffs. not bad for a GM or HC; especially w/not the right QB.
It was his first draft no doubt, but he failed to evaluate the team properly and drafted a position that no matter how good he was, he wasn’t going to make a difference as the foundation pieces weren’t in place. He still hasn’t drafted trench guys nor has he addressed the qb position other than failed free agents and Mitch. We’re now draft capital light and without a solid qb in place going into next season.
Well I will continue to point out, most teams aren't going to draft a qb w/1st rd choice on their rookie deal, it just doesn't happen. Did Hou or KC draft a qb? Philly drafted a 5th round nobody in Wentz's 4th year; that guy never was on their roster and of the 3 qb's to make an attempt in 2019 that qb wasn't one of them. Would that have made people happy, throw away a 5th round pick on a shitty qb that stood 0% of making the roster? Hey he would have drafted one?
Jets wasted a pick like Philly did on James Morgan in the 4th; of the 4 qb's that took snaps for them this year, none named Morgan. Hey but they drafted one right!
KC still hasn't drafted one, those bums. Texans? Nope, what are they thinking? Miami drafted 1 qb, in the 6th rd on Tannehill's 4th year, and then not again until last year. It just doesn't happen unless you are 100% sold that he isn't the guy. The Bears weren't ever there, even this year they weren't there. So they didn't draft one, which is the correct option when you have limited picks to begin with.
The Bears neither had the draft capital(Mack + every other trade) to use one on a qb that wasn't going to see the field. Drafting a qb in the 4th or 5th is like buying a $1 and hoping to win a million. Worse the team needed every one of those picks it had b/c, and again this is a legit complaint for Pace, he doesn't value draft picks enough to stock pile them. He'd rather spend his capital on fewer picks higher in the draft then he's setting then fall back and garner more. There was 0 way he could use one of his 3-5 picks on a qb that was never going to make the team, let alone see the field when he needed them for guys that would make the team and hopefully could see the field.
Now is the time to spend a early pick on a QB.
There are legit criticms of Pace, but White and not drafting a qb aren't it. Pace had a QB and needed a WR for him to throw to. Should he have taken something else, sure looking back now, but at the time it was the obvious choice b/c Marshal was gone. Pace's inability to stand pat, and preferably drop back is a legit reason to not like him, his inability to look at the trenches as areas of need are also; although Whitehair/Daniel show growth in that spot; but if he got Whitehair/Daniel/Mustipher/Bars as interior OL all from early picks->UDFA maybe he's starting to figure it out. He's also got Nichols and RRH and Goldman early-UDFA. Maybe he's starting to figure it out, which would make sense b/c he was incredibly young when he took the job over.
Every one of those guys are + players on this roster, all trench guys also.
I have a higher lvl of what I want out of a GM, but as I posted in another thread, you need 2 hits in every draft; and so far Pace has 2 hits in every draft. Me I want 1-2 starters and 2-3 depth guys. And in most drafts he's been able to do that. Doesn't matter where he hits or misses, every GM misses, every GM misses early and late. Get guys that can take the field and play and you are doing your job. Reality is the biggest issue w/this roster is the QB, he missed and it happens, and the coaches misusing the talent he's got them. Pagano and Nagy have failed more then the players have. Even w/all that 0 losing seasons 2 shots at the playoffs. not bad for a GM or HC; especially w/not the right QB.
We’ll agree to disagree as limited draft choices are due to Paces mismanagement. Hits “hits” fall short of his failures with high draft choices. Never there on Mitch? Then Foles was taken simply because Nagy wanted him? So let’s do it? I agree, Nagy and Pagano have failed more than the players and who’s accountable for them? Nagy was brought in to be the qb guru and granted Mitch was already there, but I’m confident that Nagy sold himself as being able to coach him up just as Pace said he’d draft a qb every year. Too many mistakes for my liking and hopefully they fire him, Nagy and Pags. They won’t so we’ll go through next year and probably another few after that buried at 8-8 with no viable qb and short of talent. Maybe we’ll run the table this year in the playoffs and end the 35 year drought.
Well I will continue to point out, most teams aren't going to draft a qb w/1st rd choice on their rookie deal, it just doesn't happen. Did Hou or KC draft a qb? Philly drafted a 5th round nobody in Wentz's 4th year; that guy never was on their roster and of the 3 qb's to make an attempt in 2019 that qb wasn't one of them. Would that have made people happy, throw away a 5th round pick on a shitty qb that stood 0% of making the roster? Hey he would have drafted one?
Jets wasted a pick like Philly did on James Morgan in the 4th; of the 4 qb's that took snaps for them this year, none named Morgan. Hey but they drafted one right!
KC still hasn't drafted one, those bums. Texans? Nope, what are they thinking? Miami drafted 1 qb, in the 6th rd on Tannehill's 4th year, and then not again until last year. It just doesn't happen unless you are 100% sold that he isn't the guy. The Bears weren't ever there, even this year they weren't there. So they didn't draft one, which is the correct option when you have limited picks to begin with.
The Bears neither had the draft capital(Mack + every other trade) to use one on a qb that wasn't going to see the field. Drafting a qb in the 4th or 5th is like buying a $1 and hoping to win a million. Worse the team needed every one of those picks it had b/c, and again this is a legit complaint for Pace, he doesn't value draft picks enough to stock pile them. He'd rather spend his capital on fewer picks higher in the draft then he's setting then fall back and garner more. There was 0 way he could use one of his 3-5 picks on a qb that was never going to make the team, let alone see the field when he needed them for guys that would make the team and hopefully could see the field.
Now is the time to spend a early pick on a QB.
There are legit criticms of Pace, but White and not drafting a qb aren't it. Pace had a QB and needed a WR for him to throw to. Should he have taken something else, sure looking back now, but at the time it was the obvious choice b/c Marshal was gone. Pace's inability to stand pat, and preferably drop back is a legit reason to not like him, his inability to look at the trenches as areas of need are also; although Whitehair/Daniel show growth in that spot; but if he got Whitehair/Daniel/Mustipher/Bars as interior OL all from early picks->UDFA maybe he's starting to figure it out. He's also got Nichols and RRH and Goldman early-UDFA. Maybe he's starting to figure it out, which would make sense b/c he was incredibly young when he took the job over.
Every one of those guys are + players on this roster, all trench guys also.
I have a higher lvl of what I want out of a GM, but as I posted in another thread, you need 2 hits in every draft; and so far Pace has 2 hits in every draft. Me I want 1-2 starters and 2-3 depth guys. And in most drafts he's been able to do that. Doesn't matter where he hits or misses, every GM misses, every GM misses early and late. Get guys that can take the field and play and you are doing your job. Reality is the biggest issue w/this roster is the QB, he missed and it happens, and the coaches misusing the talent he's got them. Pagano and Nagy have failed more then the players have. Even w/all that 0 losing seasons 2 shots at the playoffs. not bad for a GM or HC; especially w/not the right QB.
We’ll agree to disagree as limited draft choices are due to Paces mismanagement. Hits “hits” fall short of his failures with high draft choices. Never there on Mitch? Then Foles was taken simply because Nagy wanted him? So let’s do it? I agree, Nagy and Pagano have failed more than the players and who’s accountable for them? Nagy was brought in to be the qb guru and granted Mitch was already there, but I’m confident that Nagy sold himself as being able to coach him up just as Pace said he’d draft a qb every year. Too many mistakes for my liking and hopefully they fire him, Nagy and Pags. They won’t so we’ll go through next year and probably another few after that buried at 8-8 with no viable qb and short of talent. Maybe we’ll run the table this year in the playoffs and end the 35 year drought.
"We’ll agree to disagree as limited draft choices are due to Paces mismanagement. "
We agree w/this as I stated as such
"Hits “hits” fall short of his failures with high draft choices."
definitely have to disagree, his hits are hits his misses are misses regardless of draft position. Eddie Jackson, Whitehair, Daniels, Smith, Bar, Mustipher, Cohen, Mooney are all hits. they all start they all play they all contribute, 1st-udfa it doesnt matter how/when/where his job is to get them on the team
This was excellent! One think that really struck me, and reinforces my opinion that Pace is not the guy, was when he commented about the last thing you do is draft a wide receiver early unless you have all the pieces in place. Pace failed to properly analyze what the Bears had and what was needed and selected a bust wide receiver in Kevin White. We’ve been paying for that ever since.
1 that was his first draft, 2 we had a qb(cutler) Not sure that is really good example. Needless to say he has grown. If he were to draft one now, ya that would be a giant sign.
biggest neg on him is that he hasn't drafted tench guys early yet; and that might well be an indicator. He wants qb and lb's mostly. It will be interesting to see if he's continued to grow.
Yeah, that's always the excuse that is made for him--he was "young" and "new" and we can't possibly expect a GM to not **** up royally in his 1st draft.
This was excellent! One think that really struck me, and reinforces my opinion that Pace is not the guy, was when he commented about the last thing you do is draft a wide receiver early unless you have all the pieces in place. Pace failed to properly analyze what the Bears had and what was needed and selected a bust wide receiver in Kevin White. We’ve been paying for that ever since.
My God, I have been saying that for years and taken a ton of flak for it.
When Pace first took over, Bears were a total dumpster fire with an awful defense and an offense full of malcontents (Marshall, Jeffery, Bennett) on their way out the door. I agree that he was literally starting from the ground up. His very first pick--a #7 overall--should be have been building block type position. Since QB was out cuz of Cutler's contract, OL or DL or Edge were the obvious places to look. In other words, you were in the 1st inning of a 9 inning rebuild so just make solid contact on the ball and try to hit a line-drive single. Get a baserunner so to speak.
Instead, Pace got suckered into the hype and drafted a 1-year wonder, JUCO transfer, one-trick pony, track star-turned WR, boom-or-bust project pick. That's the kind of risk you take as GM when you have the foundation already in place and are hoping to hit on gamebreaker to add the last piece to the puzzle. It was going for the cherry on top when you didn't even have the bowl in place to put the sundae in.
When it blew up in his face, it lead to a bunch of secondary consequences down the road in terms of having to expend additional draft capital and FA money to backfill since White barely saw the field in 4 years. Yes, it is true his injury history couldn't have been predicted but it also true that had White panned out to be as good as Amari Cooper was, it would have mattered little anyway. Bears didn't have the foundational pieces in place yet (decent defense, good OL, capable QB) for a speed-threat WR to really have an impact. It was like trying to add high-end racing tires to an old beater car that had no engine.
That 1st draft Pace whiffed badly on 3 of his first 4 picks (White, Grasu, and Langford) and that set back the rebuild substantially -- probably 2 full years.
Sigh....I'm so tired of hearing this. Ok...let's ignore the fact that White was seen as either the top receiver in the draft or a very close second. GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE FIRST ROUND OF THAT DRAFT!!!! Show me the offensive lineman, edge guy, or defensive lineman who was picked AFTER WHITE that is worth a damn in this league currently. PLEASE...show me. Only 2 come to mind for me...Andrus Peat...who was drafted THIRTEENTH and Arik Armstead, who was drafted SEVENTEENTH.
I know a lot here like Greg Gabriel...I happen to think he's an asshole who's let the game pass him by. This is a man who told me Saquan Barkley would not be a top 3 pick, would not run a 4.4 40, and doesn't run with power. When I told him he was out of his mind and didn't know what he was talking about he proceeded to curse me out and then blocked me on twitter. Where I come from that's called SAWFT!!!
Post by Whisky Beer Bob on Jan 5, 2021 22:47:55 GMT -6
As for Pace's first draft he was also hand cuffed as not having a proper scout staff on board. Not that that is an excuse but like said above. A GM doesn't know every possible collage player.
My God, I have been saying that for years and taken a ton of flak for it.
When Pace first took over, Bears were a total dumpster fire with an awful defense and an offense full of malcontents (Marshall, Jeffery, Bennett) on their way out the door. I agree that he was literally starting from the ground up. His very first pick--a #7 overall--should be have been building block type position. Since QB was out cuz of Cutler's contract, OL or DL or Edge were the obvious places to look. In other words, you were in the 1st inning of a 9 inning rebuild so just make solid contact on the ball and try to hit a line-drive single. Get a baserunner so to speak.
Instead, Pace got suckered into the hype and drafted a 1-year wonder, JUCO transfer, one-trick pony, track star-turned WR, boom-or-bust project pick. That's the kind of risk you take as GM when you have the foundation already in place and are hoping to hit on gamebreaker to add the last piece to the puzzle. It was going for the cherry on top when you didn't even have the bowl in place to put the sundae in.
When it blew up in his face, it lead to a bunch of secondary consequences down the road in terms of having to expend additional draft capital and FA money to backfill since White barely saw the field in 4 years. Yes, it is true his injury history couldn't have been predicted but it also true that had White panned out to be as good as Amari Cooper was, it would have mattered little anyway. Bears didn't have the foundational pieces in place yet (decent defense, good OL, capable QB) for a speed-threat WR to really have an impact. It was like trying to add high-end racing tires to an old beater car that had no engine.
That 1st draft Pace whiffed badly on 3 of his first 4 picks (White, Grasu, and Langford) and that set back the rebuild substantially -- probably 2 full years.
Sigh....I'm so tired of hearing this. Ok...let's ignore the fact that White was seen as either the top receiver in the draft or a very close second. GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE FIRST ROUND OF THAT DRAFT!!!! Show me the offensive lineman, edge guy, or defensive lineman who was picked AFTER WHITE that is worth a damn in this league currently. PLEASE...show me. Only 2 come to mind for me...Andrus Peat...who was drafted THIRTEENTH and Arik Armstead, who was drafted SEVENTEENTH.
And I'm so sick of hearing the excuses made for Pace being suckered into the shiny new toy.
The fact that Mel Kiper said Kevin White was the 7th best prospect that year simply doesn't make it so. Particularly for the Bears' situation at the time.
Please show me what about White's college resume screamed "top-10 pick" to you? The fact that he had one year catching go-routes at WVU?
Do you really think burning a #7 pick on a boom-or-bust track star WR prospect was a wise idea for a GM just starting a total rebuild?
As for Pace's first draft he was also hand cuffed as not having a proper scout staff on board. Not that that is an excuse but like said above. A GM doesn't know every possible collage player.
If a "new GM" isn't prepared to properly execute a top-10 pick for his team's particular situation, then he shouldn't be the new GM.