Only tweet I've seen is Leming saying he thinks Nagy got more involved in play calling. Do we have any other proofs? Or are we MSU again?
I thought the OFF looked the same, run heavy (which we have begged for) with short safe passes out of roll-outs and bootlegs. There were the same WR screens and only 1 schemed shot down the field (still underthrown.) I haven't done a second watch yet but I'd like to count the pocket passes v boots/roll-outs and the Shotgun runs v under center runs. This is the Bears OFF that was begged for here and other places around the web. Its the same thing they did for the past 4 games of 30+ points. But this time they played a real DEF and Mitch's weaknesses got exposed by a DEF that was able to take advantage of them. This is exactly the game I thought Mitch would play.
Watch how in prior games Mitch had options when he rolled out, with a short, middle, and long in front of him on the rollouts. The Packers simply abandoned the back end (away from the boot/roll-out) and pressured Mitch with the Defender in the short zone. The only option Mitch could take was the short one, who usually got swarmed by the defenders coming from the opposite side of the field. That exact DEF was called last week by the TV commentators. It was the exact same OFF but against a DEF that knew that Mitch can't read a field, isn't trusted to sit in the pocket, won't run when he can (or even try to juke a defender at the LOS on the boots), can't throw across the middle because he is inaccurate and can't throw deep. Even after the underthrown deep shot, the GB DEF didn't bother adjusting the DEF. Because they knew Mitch wouldn't go deep and if he did the ball not be on target (someone said the shot to Mooney was both underthrown and to the wrong side.) But, if it fits the narrative that if it worked it was not Nagy and if it didn't work it was Nagy, by all means run with it.
These are still the problems with Mitch:
How many time did the Packers blitz? Not much because they knew Mitch couldn't find a WR if his life depended on it. How much zone v man did Mitch have to read? Still not accurate Still can't process a whole field
I'm not giving the coaches a free pass here. I don't care if Nagy/Pace/Lazar/Pagano are kept. I'm for trading away what assists they can and drafting a QB in the first and maybe later as well. There are questions for the coaches as well:
-Why can't the Bears OFF scheme Robinson against GB's lesser CBs like Adams does? -I know Smith was out but you ask your ILB to run with the Packer's fastest WR? Smith wouldn't have kept up either. If it truly was a Tampa-2 call there like the commentators said, and you are asking the LB to get into the deep middle, why was he up at the LOS for the snap? No one say that coming except Rogers and wanted to call a timeout? -Pass rush? What pass rush?
But hey, Mitch is a QB you can win with right? Except....you can't. Yesterday showed that he's a QB you can win inspite of...when you are playing a bottom 10 DEF and everything else goes right.
So....what do we expect next week?
I agree that Mitch is the biggest limitation. He's just too limited and has too many gaping holes in his skillset for a defense to scheme against. Like I said in the other thread, last few weeks when the O looked better, Mitch was able to stretch the D a little by hitting some mid-range (10-25 yards) throws. That disappeared almost completely yesterday. All Mitch could do is checkdowns and dumpoffs.
Still, the O did look like it had more of the stink of Nagy all over it in week 17. There was less tempo and more stupid playcalls and odd personnel packages.
I'd put it this way--Mitch isn't a good QB but Nagy makes him even worse.
I can go with that. I thought the OFF had the stink of a ball-control OFF trying to limit possessions and trying to desperately avoid TOs while trusting a leaking DEF to force a few punts, enough that they weren't trading FGs for TDs. It felt like a Jauron/Fox OFF as coordinated by Schoop/Loggains. They were going to try and play not to lose and hope with fingers crossed that everything else broke their way.
If you want to fire Nagy, don't do it because he misused Trubisky. Do it because he's not the OFF genius that the NFL requires now somewhere on a coaching staff (doesn't have to be the HC.)
2018 Nagy ran an OFF 1.0 scheme, trying to install concepts and see what Mitch was comfortable with. Because it was basic and the DEF played out of its mind, Mitch looked competent.
2019 Trusting that the DEF would hold serve, Nagy tried to upgrade to 2.0 but Mitch couldn't do it. His limits were obvious then.
2020 Nagy tried to go back to OFF 1.5 but the final straw was the missed wide open down field shots. Mitch missed them in 2018 too, I can't even count the times he over threw Miller and Cohen running wide open down field. (How quickly we forget Miller running downfield and then throwing up his hands in disgust as Mitch put the ball 6 feet in front of him.) If you want Nagy fired for anything, it was bringing in Foles thinking he could run the OFF. But he couldn't and when Lazor took over he scaled back the OFF even further. Yet somehow, we think that hiding the flawed QB is the way to run it forward in the current NFL. They were not going to beat the Packers running Nagy 0.5. I knew it, you knew it and the Packers knew it.
When your QB is so limited that you can't even run NFL OFF 1.0 then no matter who is play calling, it won't matter. Now with rumors that Smith dislocated his elbow and Mooney might not be ready for the Saints, running Nagy 0.3 might not be enough. But we'll still have people on here insisting that bootlegs and cutting the field in half are the way to go.
Again, fire Nagy. Don't think it will matter if Mitch is still here. Make Lazor the HC and DiFlipo the OC, bring back Fangio. But if they don't replace Mitch, it won't matter. You can't run an NFL OFF with a QB who requires you to game plan and play call with one hand tied behind your back.
And that is why they have to bootleg and roll out. They need to increase any advantage they can get with short passes, even though you are trading away 1/2 the field. No OFF can be run with that chart as the foundation for its passing game. It even affects the running game, as teams can cheat and play single safety DEF, bringing in another DL-man or LB on non-obvious passing situations. You also don't have to respect the RPOs because you know that at best its going to be a 3 yard gain off a bootleg. But hey, it all on Nagy for not turning straw into gold.
I'm leaning 100% toward speculation. Could be wrong, but outside Leming and the meatheads on the radio who still think that "Bears mean DEF and DEF is all you need" haven't seen anything about Nagy calling plays yesterday.
I agree that Mitch is the biggest limitation. He's just too limited and has too many gaping holes in his skillset for a defense to scheme against. Like I said in the other thread, last few weeks when the O looked better, Mitch was able to stretch the D a little by hitting some mid-range (10-25 yards) throws. That disappeared almost completely yesterday. All Mitch could do is checkdowns and dumpoffs.
Still, the O did look like it had more of the stink of Nagy all over it in week 17. There was less tempo and more stupid playcalls and odd personnel packages.
I'd put it this way--Mitch isn't a good QB but Nagy makes him even worse.
I can go with that. I thought the OFF had the stink of a ball-control OFF trying to limit possessions and trying to desperately avoid TOs while trusting a leaking DEF to force a few punts, enough that they weren't trading FGs for TDs. It felt like a Jauron/Fox OFF as coordinated by Schoop/Loggains. They were going to try and play not to lose and hope with fingers crossed that everything else broke their way.
If you want to fire Nagy, don't do it because he misused Trubisky. Do it because he's not the OFF genius that the NFL requires now somewhere on a coaching staff (doesn't have to be the HC.)
2018 Nagy ran an OFF 1.0 scheme, trying to install concepts and see what Mitch was comfortable with. Because it was basic and the DEF played out of its mind, Mitch looked competent.
2019 Trusting that the DEF would hold serve, Nagy tried to upgrade to 2.0 but Mitch couldn't do it. His limits were obvious then.
2020 Nagy tried to go back to OFF 1.5 but the final straw was the missed wide open down field shots. Mitch missed them in 2018 too, I can't even count the times he over threw Miller and Cohen running wide open down field. (How quickly we forget Miller running downfield and then throwing up his hands in disgust as Mitch put the ball 6 feet in front of him.) If you want Nagy fired for anything, it was bringing in Foles thinking he could run the OFF. But he couldn't and when Lazor took over he scaled back the OFF even further. Yet somehow, we think that hiding the flawed QB is the way to run it forward in the current NFL. They were not going to beat the Packers running Nagy 0.5. I knew it, you knew it and the Packers knew it.
When your QB is so limited that you can't even run NFL OFF 1.0 then no matter who is play calling, it won't matter. Now with rumors that Smith dislocated his elbow and Mooney might not be ready for the Saints, running Nagy 0.3 might not be enough. But we'll still have people on here insisting that bootlegs and cutting the field in half are the way to go.
Again, fire Nagy. Don't think it will matter if Mitch is still here. Make Lazor the HC and DiFlipo the OC, bring back Fangio. But if they don't replace Mitch, it won't matter. You can't run an NFL OFF with a QB who requires you to game plan and play call with one hand tied behind your back.
There's no question whatsoever that Mitch has failed and isn't the answer. After a couple decent performances, admittedly against crap defenses, I held out a flicker of hope that MT could be a solid "bridge" (assuming we could unload Foles and still drafted another QB).
Yesterday disavowed me of any lingering interest in that plan. Mitch simply sucks and isn't a starting caliber NFL QB. Lazor was able to squeeze more out of him than Nagy could but yeah I agree it is still not enough. The typical "good Mitch" stat line (often against a bum defense) is:
20/28, 206 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
For a true quality franchise starter, that would be an off-day or even a down day. For Trubisky, it is his ceiling.
MT's best deep ball was the throw to Wims that fell incomplete. if we can't threaten the whole field the O is gonna be stuck. Has Nagy confirmed increased role?
MT's best deep ball was the throw to Wims that fell incomplete. if we can't threaten the whole field the O is gonna be stuck. Has Nagy confirmed increased role?
no. Because outside of Leming and a few talk radio hosts who relied on Lemings tweet, there is no proof yet. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it's taken on life as a truth because everyone keeps retweet and referencing other people who reference other people who reference "Chicago Media." Here its taken as gospel truth because anything bad that happens is on Nagy and anything good must not be Nagy. Take the failed 4th down bootleg. Didn't work so bad = Nagy. But the 4th down bootleg that did work couldn't have been Nagy because it worked.
Real reason Bears lost to GB is: no JJ and no Roq. Two main reasons. There was ARog on the other side. So, JJ and Roq.
And no Eddie Goldman hurts too. To be honest, I'm amazed the Bears were still in the game after 3 quarters of play. Going into the game I was thinking that it could easily have been a 50+ point loss. This morning I'm thinking that the Bears do have some good things to build upon to get better in 2021.
A win over the Saints is a long shot for sure. But it would sure be nice to get an upset win there on Sunday.
Real reason Bears lost to GB is: no JJ and no Roq. Two main reasons. There was ARog on the other side. So, JJ and Roq.
And no Eddie Goldman hurts too. To be honest, I'm amazed the Bears were still in the game after 3 quarters of play. Going into the game I was thinking that it could easily have been a 50+ point loss. This morning I'm thinking that the Bears do have some good things to build upon to get better in 2021.
A win over the Saints is a long shot for sure. But it would sure be nice to get an upset win there on Sunday.
I really think we have a good shot at NO. I mean all we have to do is force Brees to throw it down field. He lacks the arm strength that he once did and his receivers are all banged up. So we do what GB did to us. MAKE him go deep. You know that is what they will do to us. Their D is much like ours. The deciding factor will be the NO run corps. If they clear, we have a problem.
