Coaching really needs to change after this season.
The defense should be doing far better than that do to the talent we have on that side. Fangio got out everything from this defense yet our DC loves to call a 4-2-5 defense that just doesn't work with the players we have.
The offense has had 3 years and has been the same overall. Nagy isn't this offensive guru. If he can't bother to make his play calling work than what is the point of him being here?
Coaching really needs to change after this season.
The defense should be doing far better than that do to the talent we have on that side. Fangio got out everything from this defense yet our DC loves to call a 4-2-5 defense that just doesn't work with the players we have.
The offense has had 3 years and has been the same overall. Nagy isn't this offensive guru. If he can't bother to make his play calling work than what is the point of him being here?
Even Reid has others call plays for him. I see a lot of times when people are wiiiide open (play design working) but QB misses the read. Or someone is wide open and QB misses throw or WR drops it. I'm okay seeing how this O looks once Foles settles in but I'm also up for keeping the playbook and having someone new calling the plays (and managing the clock).
The fact we don't roll over and accept defeat is a HC thing, almost all of our losses with Nagy have been within reach until very late into the game, even in our 2019 debacle we had so many tight losses. This team seems to believe in Nagy and that's what you need out of a HC.
Who knows, might have to blow this whole thing up top to bottom.. but as of now I don't have that "FIRE EVERYONE" vibe. I mean we're 24-13 through 2 and a quarter seasons. Ain't bad. If we had a kicker in 2018 we would have at least one playoff win, probably more. This team feels much better than the John Fox and Trestman iterations we suffered through. Our worst season with Nagy we went 8-8, as good or better than the 5 season before he got here.
Coaching really needs to change after this season.
The defense should be doing far better than that do to the talent we have on that side. Fangio got out everything from this defense yet our DC loves to call a 4-2-5 defense that just doesn't work with the players we have.
The offense has had 3 years and has been the same overall. Nagy isn't this offensive guru. If he can't bother to make his play calling work than what is the point of him being here?
Even Reid has others call plays for him. I see a lot of times when people are wiiiide open (play design working) but QB misses the read. Or someone is wide open and QB misses throw or WR drops it. I'm okay seeing how this O looks once Foles settles in but I'm also up for keeping the playbook and having someone new calling the plays (and managing the clock).
The fact we don't roll over and accept defeat is a HC thing, almost all of our losses with Nagy have been within reach until very late into the game, even in our 2019 debacle we had so many tight losses. This team seems to believe in Nagy and that's what you need out of a HC.
Who knows, might have to blow this whole thing up top to bottom.. but as of now I don't have that "FIRE EVERYONE" vibe. I mean we're 24-13 through 2 and a quarter seasons. Ain't bad. If we had a kicker in 2018 we would have at least one playoff win, probably more. This team feels much better than the John Fox and Trestman iterations we suffered through. Our worst season with Nagy we went 8-8, as good or better than the 5 season before he got here.
Take Reid away from the chiefs and that team won't be the same. He is their offense.
Take Nagy away from this team and chances are the offense improves better than mediocrity.
As you said we don't roll over and accept defeat but most of our losses to even most of our wins is thanks to our defense bailing out a mediocre offense. We hired Nagy to be the guy to fix our offense and make us a top 10 offense in the league. If we were going to rely on our defense to carry us we should of just kept Fangio who gave us that 2018 defense.
I don't know how you don't feel no one deserves the hot seat.
Pace has been the GM for 6 years and only brought us 1 playoff appearance, he can't draft 1st round talent, and his offensive FA haven't really been hits. Nagy was masked by a very good defense in 2018. With the dc leaving us and going to the Broncos. The change of scheme couldn't help us keep the offense competitive. We had been below average the past 2 years while Nagy still calling plays.
Maybe expecting more than 2 playoff appearances a decade is too high of an expectation.
Even Reid has others call plays for him. I see a lot of times when people are wiiiide open (play design working) but QB misses the read. Or someone is wide open and QB misses throw or WR drops it. I'm okay seeing how this O looks once Foles settles in but I'm also up for keeping the playbook and having someone new calling the plays (and managing the clock).
The fact we don't roll over and accept defeat is a HC thing, almost all of our losses with Nagy have been within reach until very late into the game, even in our 2019 debacle we had so many tight losses. This team seems to believe in Nagy and that's what you need out of a HC.
Who knows, might have to blow this whole thing up top to bottom.. but as of now I don't have that "FIRE EVERYONE" vibe. I mean we're 24-13 through 2 and a quarter seasons. Ain't bad. If we had a kicker in 2018 we would have at least one playoff win, probably more. This team feels much better than the John Fox and Trestman iterations we suffered through. Our worst season with Nagy we went 8-8, as good or better than the 5 season before he got here.
Take Reid away from the chiefs and that team won't be the same. He is their offense.
Take Nagy away from this team and chances are the offense improves better than mediocrity.
As you said we don't roll over and accept defeat but most of our losses to even most of our wins is thanks to our defense bailing out a mediocre offense. We hired Nagy to be the guy to fix our offense and make us a top 10 offense in the league. If we were going to rely on our defense to carry us we should of just kept Fangio who gave us that 2018 defense.
I don't know how you don't feel no one deserves the hot seat.
Pace has been the GM for 6 years and only brought us 1 playoff appearance, he can't draft 1st round talent, and his offensive FA haven't really been hits. Nagy was masked by a very good defense in 2018. With the dc leaving us and going to the Broncos. The change of scheme couldn't help us keep the offense competitive. We had been below average the past 2 years while Nagy still calling plays.
Maybe expecting more than 2 playoff appearances a decade is too high of an expectation.
Which funny enough, during the Dikta era we had more Playoff Appearances in a short span than we had for the last 30 years...
Now I'm not saying that he is with out blame, part of the reason I give him a little bit of a leash is the fact he's a young head coach I'm sure I'm also somewhat scarred from our last two coaches. But who would you have instead of him? Sometimes I worry it's The Grass Is Always Greener type of scenario and you don't want to just jettison your coach and GM and be rebuilding everything from the ground up year after year after year. I mean what is truly fair in terms of how much time you give a guy? I don't think Nagy is in the same stratosphere as Belichick however if you were a Cleveland Fan and you are dealing with Belichick, you probably would have been calling for his head and they canned him after a few seasons and then he ended up being probably the greatest head coach of all time.
I definitely think Fangio was a huge reason for our success in 2018, however players and coaches can certainly go through a sophomore slump which would be last year. This is going to be a really telling year, I don't like that they went with Foles (although what is the alternative?) because this is kind of make or break it for me. I want to see a lot of improvement from now until the end of season and if I don't then his seat would undoubtedly be hot but really how much time do you give a guy without it being you seeking instant gratification? How many coaches come in and dominate from year one on?
It's hard to find good players but I think it might be even harder to find good head coaches and I don't think it's as simple as canning Nagy plugging another guy in there and we go straight to the Super Bowl.
Also what would he have to do to earn more time from you, this year? If we go playoffs and win a game or two are you going to want him to stick around? You mentioned playoff wins and like I said we would have won at least one his first season if not for doink × 2, and that was with Trubisky and Nagy engineering a game winning drive. If he makes playoffs this year that's two outta three seasons going playoffs, is that enough to earn more time?
Take Reid away from the chiefs and that team won't be the same. He is their offense.
Take Nagy away from this team and chances are the offense improves better than mediocrity.
As you said we don't roll over and accept defeat but most of our losses to even most of our wins is thanks to our defense bailing out a mediocre offense. We hired Nagy to be the guy to fix our offense and make us a top 10 offense in the league. If we were going to rely on our defense to carry us we should of just kept Fangio who gave us that 2018 defense.
I don't know how you don't feel no one deserves the hot seat.
Pace has been the GM for 6 years and only brought us 1 playoff appearance, he can't draft 1st round talent, and his offensive FA haven't really been hits. Nagy was masked by a very good defense in 2018. With the dc leaving us and going to the Broncos. The change of scheme couldn't help us keep the offense competitive. We had been below average the past 2 years while Nagy still calling plays.
Maybe expecting more than 2 playoff appearances a decade is too high of an expectation.
Which funny enough, during the Dikta era we had more Playoff Appearances in a short span than we had for the last 30 years...
Now I'm not saying that he is with out blame, part of the reason I give him a little bit of a leash is the fact he's a young head coach I'm sure I'm also somewhat scarred from our last two coaches. But who would you have instead of him? Sometimes I worry it's The Grass Is Always Greener type of scenario and you don't want to just jettison your coach and GM and be rebuilding everything from the ground up year after year after year. I mean what is truly fair in terms of how much time you give a guy? I don't think Nagy is in the same stratosphere as Belichick however if you were a Cleveland Fan and you are dealing with Belichick, you probably would have been calling for his head and they canned him after a few seasons and then he ended up being probably the greatest head coach of all time.
I definitely think Fangio was a huge reason for our success in 2018, however players and coaches can certainly go through a sophomore slump which would be last year. This is going to be a really telling year, I don't like that they went with Foles (although what is the alternative?) because this is kind of make or break it for me. I want to see a lot of improvement from now until the end of season and if I don't then his seat would undoubtedly be hot but really how much time do you give a guy without it being you seeking instant gratification? How many coaches come in and dominate from year one on?
It's hard to find good players but I think it might be even harder to find good head coaches and I don't think it's as simple as canning Nagy plugging another guy in there and we go straight to the Super Bowl.
There becomes a deadline. You can't keep waiting year after year and have no results. Pace has had 6 years and this is what he has to show for it. An aging roster with no superstar first round picks ( Which 4 were in the top 10 ). For Nagy, its a very underproductive offense with horrible play calling. He might not be at the level of John Fox bad but he isn't great either. Just look at the Packers. They got rid of their GM, HC, and DC a few years back and are playing some of the best football they ever played. There comes a point in time when enough is enough. If a winning franchise like the Packers do it, then why can't we?
With Belichick, I believed he hit lightning in the bottle. Weak division with a HoF QB who many consider to be the best of all time. His time with the Giants gave him 2 rings and great insight in the game. Nagy doesn't have that type of winning experience as a background. His time with the Browns ( 91-95 ) who are now the Ravens ( Post 96 relocation ), could of been a fluke but that franchise still found success later on by moving him out. 2 Super Bowl rings, 12 playoff appearances throughout a 24 year time frame ( From name change )
As for what I want to see. I want this offense to generate at least 20 points a game. I want this offense to be league average instead of below average. As with playoffs, who got us there? Nagy or the defense? If Nagy then I'll give him more time. If defense, than let's find someone else. With Pace I feel the same way. This is Pace's team. 6 years with 1 playoff appearance and zero wins.
I don't think wanting average offense is too much to ask for. If we're not at 16 or above ranking wise and unable to average 20 points a game then I totally see where you're coming from. With Tru coming off a Fox rookie year he got us to playoffs. Second year was meh. This year he dumped Tru (who he didn't have any part in drafting) and is now rolling with Foles, someone he undoubtedly had some part of acquiring. Let's see how this offense looks as Foles settles into his role and this offense and Nagy uses a QB he seemed to like. So far we're 2-1 with Foles at QB (Ima give him that Falcons game). His last two games were against some very stout defenses (#1 & #2 DVOA I believe?). No off season or preseason. So let's have this play out and see what we average on offense moving forward. Its only his third season.
What do you think of the plays where people are schemed wide open and we miss it? How many extra TDs are left on the field (and off Nagys resume for PPG) due to poor QB play rather than an indictment of the play caller?
When it comes to Pace he isn't perfect but he was, as JABF says, green as a gourd when we made him our GM. I think hes improved every year. The lack of game changers from Top 10 picks is tough to stomach, no doubt. But hes also assembled some bonafied playmakers.
White is hard to judge because injuries derailed him so tough to say how he would have turned out.. 2nd round got Goldman who's an absolute monster. In the fifth we grabbed Amos who was a stud for us. Floyd was good although not great, but a good chess piece for Fang and not a total whiff. Whitehair is a key piece of our OL. In the 4th we grabbed Kwit and Bush. Kwit borderline starter and Bush is a serviceable back up. Howard in the 5th who was great for us. Then we missed on Mitch (I wanted Watson but misses happen on QBs every year). Shaheen was worthless but Eddie Jackson and Tarik Cohen have been great players for us. Roquan plays well for us. James Daniels in the second is great value, looked like a stud before the injury this year. Anthony Miller has definitely flashed some plays. Iggy has been solid ST. Nichols has been a very good DT for us and Wims has started to show up this year. The next year we didnt pick until well into the third round and Montgomery has played well when he has blocks. Who knows, maybe Ridley can get comfortable and show up this year or next. This year JJ looks like a baller and Mooney has shown some huge promise. Kmet felt like the right pick and we'll see what he turns into and its much too early to call it either way for anyone else in this draft class.
He's not perfect but he seems to find multiple players every draft who cqn contribute on some level and I think hes gotten better every draft. Hes got a knack for getting great value late, extremely great value. Angelos last few years were trash and Emery had not much better outside of Long, Fuller and Leno. The Ravens seem to always draft well but outside of them I cant think of a team where it's like "wow they draft so consistently and always draft so smart".