We can mostly agree we have an issue with the Oline and not much money to do much.
Does anyone believe Massie or Leno could move to a new position on the Oline. We are saddled with their Contracts for this year and a large cap hit if we move them.
Daniels is still young and I hold hope he can settle in to either a Guard or Center position. Same can be said about Whitehair as they seem to want him at Guard but he seems to end up at center resulting from issues. I realize the Tackles are average at best and could use an upgrade. Would be nice if Massie could move inside to either Guard or Center and add a OT like Conklin potentially. Just do not see it happening unless either Leno or Massie can move inside. Still some risk as Daniels is somewhat an unknown but had a good rookie season at Guard and many still believe he is a Center. Many college Tackles are moved to Guard in the NFL as they are to slow or poor feet. Just wondering if anyone believes this may be viable. Comments welcome
We can mostly agree we have an issue with the Oline and not much money to do much.
Does anyone believe Massie or Leno could move to a new position on the Oline. We are saddled with their Contracts for this year and a large cap hit if we move them.
Daniels is still young and I hold hope he can settle in to either a Guard or Center position. Same can be said about Whitehair as they seem to want him at Guard but he seems to end up at center resulting from issues. I realize the Tackles are average at best and could use an upgrade. Would be nice if Massie could move inside to either Guard or Center and add a OT like Conklin potentially. Just do not see it happening unless either Leno or Massie can move inside. Still some risk as Daniels is somewhat an unknown but had a good rookie season at Guard and many still believe he is a Center. Many college Tackles are moved to Guard in the NFL as they are to slow or poor feet. Just wondering if anyone believes this may be viable. Comments welcome
I believe Leno can be a decent LT again. He's young and has played well enough in past years, so hopefully he will be fine this upcoming season. Whitehair and Daniels will be fine too. This is not the year to be flip-flopping OL players to different positions again. LT, LG & C just need to be left alone and they will be fine in 2020.
I think the Bears will bring in a solid RG for this season and also a young project tackle to step into Massie's position in 2021. Massie isn't exactly "old" but he's never been that good. We probably have one more season with him at RT. I wouldn't move him inside. I'd simply plan for his 2021 replacement.
We can mostly agree we have an issue with the Oline and not much money to do much.
Does anyone believe Massie or Leno could move to a new position on the Oline. We are saddled with their Contracts for this year and a large cap hit if we move them.
Daniels is still young and I hold hope he can settle in to either a Guard or Center position. Same can be said about Whitehair as they seem to want him at Guard but he seems to end up at center resulting from issues. I realize the Tackles are average at best and could use an upgrade. Would be nice if Massie could move inside to either Guard or Center and add a OT like Conklin potentially. Just do not see it happening unless either Leno or Massie can move inside. Still some risk as Daniels is somewhat an unknown but had a good rookie season at Guard and many still believe he is a Center. Many college Tackles are moved to Guard in the NFL as they are to slow or poor feet. Just wondering if anyone believes this may be viable. Comments welcome
Last year during the season, I asked this board several times what the explanation was for the OL struggling like it did. (And it struggled everywhere--even Whitehair had a down year).
I pointed out that the OL didn't have obvious problems to explain the decline (big turnover, aging, major injuries, poor investment, etc). The OL returned 5 starters from 2018. 2 were pro-bowlers, 1 was a former pro-bowler, and 1 had been named to the all-rookie team. It included 2 2nd round picks, a 1st round pick, and a 3rd round pick who was a priority free agent signing. Even with the Long injury/benching week 5, the OL's injury situation was no worse than league-average. Lots of teams lose a starter on the OL -- it's not unusual at all. Wasn't until late in the season when Massie got hurt that the unit's injury situation was more serious. Even so, 3 of 5 starters played every game.
Bottom line was.....no one here had an answer to explain why an OL that wasn't old, wasn't talent-less, and wasn't hurt that bad was PLAYING so bad and why it was clearly so much worse than the season before.
The only thing I can come up with that was different was the Nagy 2.0 scheme/Helfrich. So I am gonna ascribe the OL's struggles last year to coaching/scheme. Sorry, but they may not be the best unit in the NFL but they simply aren't that bad. I remember watching from the stands week 1 at Soldier Field and the OL was false starting, running into each other, and plain missing/not knowing their assignments play after play.
Simply put--it was a CF right from the top.
Having said all that, Leno and Massie aren't going anywhere because of their contracts. The only starting position that's screaming for an upgrade is RG and there are FAs there who can help. I hope Pace also drafts an OT Day2 cuz we need one in the pipeline. Add in Alex Bars to the mix and se where it settles out in training camp.
It will be interesting to see if the coaching change helps.
LINK Juan Castillo joins the Bears as offensive line coach this year with 24 seasons of NFL coaching experience with the Eagles (1995-2012), Ravens (2013-16) and Bills (2017-18).
Here are three things you should know about Castillo:
(1) Castillo's background was on defense, but when given an opportunity to coach the offensive line at his alma mater, he crisscrossed the country to learn from the best.
Born and raised in southern Texas, Castillo played linebacker at Texas A&I and with the San Antonio Gunslingers in the USFL. After his playing career ended, he spent eight seasons as a defensive assistant coach in high school and college.
Hired to coach the offensive line at his alma mater in 1990—the school changed its name to Texas A&M-Kingsville in 1993—Castillo researched and identified seven of the best offensive line coaches in the country. He then contacted them and ultimately spent two weeks every spring from 1990 through 1994 traveling to watch them work.
The group included two college coaches—Notre Dame's Joe Moore and Michigan's Jerry Hanlon—and five in the NFL—the Bills' Tom Bresnahan, the Redskins' Jim Hanifan, the 49ers' Bobb McKittrick, the Chiefs' Howard Mudd and the Bears' Tony Wise.
The first few years Castillo hit the road, he often slept in his car. As he developed stronger relationships with the coaches he visited, he began staying at their homes.
"I didn't know anything about o-line play and they gave me the foundation," Castillo said. "Really they're the ones who taught me everything because I really didn't know anything. But what I found out was once I learned how to teach offensive line play from what those guys taught me, what really came in handy for me was that I already understood defenses."
I have wanted Massie gone since we got him. He did play, ahem, "better", 2 years ago. Extending his contract was insanity, now we're stuck with him. Hopefully Castillo can get him back to his "better" performance.
Leno. Servicable. Needs an upgrade, but no money now to do it and too much of a hit.
Whitehair, Daniels, Coward. Young guys, not great but better than average? I'm okay with these guys for a while.
Larsen, Levin. Don't know much about these two.
Even if Larsen and/or Levin become solid starters, we need 2 new guys in the pipeline. Massie has to be dumped next year and my jury is out on Leno till after this season.
As far as moving guys around? No, stop the nonsense. Play Whitehair and Daniels at their natural position. The only move I'd like to see is moving Massie to the bench. It shouldn't be too hard to find somebody better than him.
Those are my thoughts on the OL, and I'm sticking to 'em.
I have wanted Massie gone since we got him. He did play, ahem, "better", 2 years ago. Extending his contract was insanity, now we're stuck with him. Hopefully Castillo can get him back to his "better" performance.
Leno. Servicable. Needs an upgrade, but no money now to do it and too much of a hit.
Whitehair, Daniels, Coward. Young guys, not great but better than average? I'm okay with these guys for a while.
Larsen, Levin. Don't know much about these two.
Even if Larsen and/or Levin become solid starters, we need 2 new guys in the pipeline. Massie has to be dumped next year and my jury is out on Leno till after this season.
As far as moving guys around? No, stop the nonsense. Play Whitehair and Daniels at their natural position. The only move I'd like to see is moving Massie to the bench. It shouldn't be too hard to find somebody better than him.
Those are my thoughts on the OL, and I'm sticking to 'em.
Regarding Massie, I understand the frustration but there's some revisionist history going on here.
He had a good season (his best as Bear anyway) in 2018 and had finished his 3rd consecutive year without missing a single start. He was also out of his contract and slated to hit FA. Not saying he's a star or anything but Massie was about to be the best vet OT to hit the open market a year ago.
What did you want Pace to do??
Let him walk away with no replacement on the roster and no pick until the late-3rd round to replace him?
Fact is, Pace had really no choice but to re-sign him. Again....there was no replacement available and Massie just had his best season and had proven durable x 3 straight years.
That move isn't looking so good now as he had a tough 2019 and got hurt on top of it but it was the right move at the time.
I agree completely that we really really need a 2nd-3rd round OT pick this year to A) compete at RT and B) get some depth in the pipeline.
Post by tragicslip on Feb 23, 2020 20:01:16 GMT -6
Daniels looked weak, but moving him and Whitehair didn't do either favors. The pulling we did looked bad, too slow to point of attack/ missing assignments. Our tackles looked low effort but that could just be confusion.
I will say it wasn't too hard to tell by the way they swt up presnap if a play was run or pass. Was that by design? Maybe if MT is really struggling with reads and getting pass run options but always going pass.
Most of these issues are coaching related imo, except for strength.
Post by lklrlolnlilklsox on Feb 23, 2020 20:18:25 GMT -6
Well, this will be Massie’s final year, regardless. I’d love for them to get a stud at RT and kick him inside to RG, where I think he could excel, but the transition is far from a guaranteed success.
Post by tragicslip on Feb 23, 2020 20:52:29 GMT -6
Bruno Reagan stood out to me in an xfl game (NY vs STL)at LG. went undrafted in 2019. decent awareness and pull, took a lot of hands to the face and didn't get moved (on one of these they tried to LB blitz behind it and failed, noticed they started interior blitzes after this always on right side). doubt he's an NFL starter but wouldn't be surprised in non skill guys get looks from nfl teams out of xfl.
We can mostly agree we have an issue with the Oline and not much money to do much.
Does anyone believe Massie or Leno could move to a new position on the Oline. We are saddled with their Contracts for this year and a large cap hit if we move them.
Daniels is still young and I hold hope he can settle in to either a Guard or Center position. Same can be said about Whitehair as they seem to want him at Guard but he seems to end up at center resulting from issues. I realize the Tackles are average at best and could use an upgrade. Would be nice if Massie could move inside to either Guard or Center and add a OT like Conklin potentially. Just do not see it happening unless either Leno or Massie can move inside. Still some risk as Daniels is somewhat an unknown but had a good rookie season at Guard and many still believe he is a Center. Many college Tackles are moved to Guard in the NFL as they are to slow or poor feet. Just wondering if anyone believes this may be viable. Comments welcome
Last year during the season, I asked this board several times what the explanation was for the OL struggling like it did. (And it struggled everywhere--even Whitehair had a down year).
I pointed out that the OL didn't have obvious problems to explain the decline (big turnover, aging, major injuries, poor investment, etc). The OL returned 5 starters from 2018. 2 were pro-bowlers, 1 was a former pro-bowler, and 1 had been named to the all-rookie team. It included 2 2nd round picks, a 1st round pick, and a 3rd round pick who was a priority free agent signing. Even with the Long injury/benching week 5, the OL's injury situation was no worse than league-average. Lots of teams lose a starter on the OL -- it's not unusual at all. Wasn't until late in the season when Massie got hurt that the unit's injury situation was more serious. Even so, 3 of 5 starters played every game.
Bottom line was.....no one here had an answer to explain why an OL that wasn't old, wasn't talent-less, and wasn't hurt that bad was PLAYING so bad and why it was clearly so much worse than the season before.
The only thing I can come up with that was different was the Nagy 2.0 scheme/Helfrich. So I am gonna ascribe the OL's struggles last year to coaching/scheme. Sorry, but they may not be the best unit in the NFL but they simply aren't that bad. I remember watching from the stands week 1 at Soldier Field and the OL was false starting, running into each other, and plain missing/not knowing their assignments play after play.
Simply put--it was a CF right from the top.
Having said all that, Leno and Massie aren't going anywhere because of their contracts. The only starting position that's screaming for an upgrade is RG and there are FAs there who can help. I hope Pace also drafts an OT Day2 cuz we need one in the pipeline. Add in Alex Bars to the mix and se where it settles out in training camp.
There is an answer. And it was talked about a lot on this board. The answer was the lineman simply played badly in many areas. Olin Kreutz and others pointed out that the blocking was sloppy and assignments were being missed. Players not executing.
I know people like to blame coaches but as I've said repeatedly players aren't robots to program. They have put the work in too.
Also many of the problems put on the OL often were due other factors like TEs and WRs not making their blocks.
Some things to consider in no particular order: - The Bears' pass blocking by most stats and ratings was pretty average for the league. As we all should know by now Mitch has issues holding onto the ball too long and most our WRs/TEs aren't getting a lot of separation. More on that later. - The run blocking was very bad but much of the that was primarily on the right side where we had an injured Long and later the newbie Coward, then Massie and Lucas the backup on RT. You can maybe get away with one weak link on the OL but not two. - As we all know our TEs are not good. The ones that can catch can't block, the ones that can block can't catch, and the only one that could kind of do both was injured in some way all season. So if you put in the guys in who can block they know it's run, and if you put the guy in who can only catch they know it's a pass. - This lack of consistent run blocking meant that defenses could put 5 and even 6 DBs on the field since the other 5 guys on the D could disrupt the run game. This meant there were few if any match up problems to exploit or misdirection to use which are two of the mainstays of any modern NFL offense. - Mitch's inconsistent deep ball meant that DBs could cheat up pretty close to the line making runs even harder. - Our WRs haven't been very good blockers either. It's important that they at least get a piece of the guy in front of them. That didn't happen often.
My hope is that Castillo can get these guys back to getting their fundamentals right. If they can do that and grab a decent TE and a G/T in the draft and/or a FA, we might see some better results. Because there's no scheme in the world that can make an offense work with poor execution.