If you read this new board Pace - PLEASE no first round pick trades for a QB. If we do the Cutler thing again I'm might have to start rooting for the Vikings. 😡
Pace could never get on this board. The process is so secretive that it makes Fox's injury reports look like an open book process.
Well we could give him the secret password I suppose. It used to be "Swordfish" but I changed it and now I can remember what I changed it to. If I log off I may never get back on!
This topic was a mish-mash on the Dabears board. But with this new group here, I am curious where everyone is on drafting a starting QB. I'm not trying to get into the Cutler love/hate thread thing. Forget that. What about the post-Cutler era? It's coming. What do you think is our BEST move here?
1. Should we try drafting a QB in 2017 regardless of how Jay Cutler performs this season? Bears should have started this process awhile ago, and they keep missing on some quality qb's, even in the 2nd-4th rounds 2. Should we try to instead, bring on a FA instead? never. That's how you end up w/Claussen, Campbell, Hoyer and all the other duds. Every great once in awhile you strike lighting in a bottle, but unless you have a young qb you shouldn't have a vet backup. 3. What about the backup QB situation for 2017? 1-4th round rookie qb; unless they are the starter, then a vet. 4. Should we just kick the can down the street to 2018 and beyond if Jay has a decent year in 2016? no.
This topic was a mish-mash on the Dabears board. But with this new group here, I am curious where everyone is on drafting a starting QB. I'm not trying to get into the Cutler love/hate thread thing. Forget that. What about the post-Cutler era? It's coming. What do you think is our BEST move here?
1. Should we try drafting a QB in 2017 regardless of how Jay Cutler performs this season?
2. Should we try to instead, bring on a FA instead?
3. What about the backup QB situation for 2017?
4. Should we just kick the can down the street to 2018 and beyond if Jay has a decent year in 2016?
I'm of the opinion we need to draft one next year (I was hoping they'd do it this year). I don't see any FA coming that make me think we should write a big check for. The backup situation is a mess, but I see that as a more universal problem in the NFL today. We need to keep Jay around until we have someone who at least shows some ability to start. So far, no luck sadly.
I think two very good points came from this so far.
I think pretty much along the lines of 4dabers that NE isn't about to part company with Jimmy Garoppolo any time soon despite Brady's desire to play until he's eligible to collect Social Security. Garoppolo is nowhere near learning all of the nuances Brady uses to run that offense the way he does and until he learns to almost become Brady himself he won't get the keys to the offense.
Belicheat loves to win and he's built systems to do it with that goes beyond just one or two players but Brady may be the exception to that rule. In some ways he is Belicheat or at least Bill's other half. The Pats are not a team willing to give up their winning ways while a new QB learns the ropes so I'm thinking Garopollo may well be another Aaron Rodgers who still be #2 for several more years before he sees any hope of being #1. Once Bill has that much time invested in him he won't trade him.
Belliot also nails a good point. Fox is an old school run the ball and play with a suffocating defense HC. It would be well within the bounds of his thinking to want a less QB centric offense. He got to a Super Bowl with Jake Delhomme and one huge bone of contention between him and Elway out here was when the Payton Manning era should come to an end and we all know who won that battle.
If Fox can build the roster his way he believes he can win with a QB whose "good enough" and doesn't need a HOF level guy to win a championship. I tend to agree provided you can dominate on defense and it sure looks to me like that's where the arrow is pointing when we gamble on the upside of players like Floyd, Goldman, Bullard, Bush, Hall and Amos. They all came with question mark that mark them as boom or bust or limited guys at their positions.
I don't think we can rule out a trade either but I doubt Pace will give up a high pick or picks for any QB whose not seen as virtually a sure thing. I don't expect any Cutler type trade deal either.
This topic was a mish-mash on the Dabears board. But with this new group here, I am curious where everyone is on drafting a starting QB. I'm not trying to get into the Cutler love/hate thread thing. Forget that. What about the post-Cutler era? It's coming. What do you think is our BEST move here?
1. Should we try drafting a QB in 2017 regardless of how Jay Cutler performs this season? Bears should have started this process awhile ago, and they keep missing on some quality qb's, even in the 2nd-4th rounds 2. Should we try to instead, bring on a FA instead? never. That's how you end up w/Claussen, Campbell, Hoyer and all the other duds. Every great once in awhile you strike lighting in a bottle, but unless you have a young qb you shouldn't have a vet backup. 3. What about the backup QB situation for 2017? 1-4th round rookie qb; unless they are the starter, then a vet. 4. Should we just kick the can down the street to 2018 and beyond if Jay has a decent year in 2016? no.
Ric I don't deny there have been some decent #2 type QB prospects in the last few years who may have been developed but how does that help a team that's devoid of talent on the OL to even protect who they have and on defense to run a 3-4 scheme as they wanted to do?
I'm sorry to disagree with you 'cause you know I seldom do (insert Pinocchio smiley here) but ya' gotta build from the lines outward and both needed some serious infusion of talent. Pick a QB drafted in the last couple of year, even Garoppolo and can you honestly tell me we'd have been better off with that pick than with Goldman or Whitehair? Two starters vs a backup QB with some potential to some day become a #1 and a third 3rd round starter in an injured Grasu.
I would also love to have a more stable situation at the #2 QB spot but not at the expense of spending a pick on a player I feel can start for me in year one or two over a speculative pick of a QB who at best won't start for at least two years. Let's build the foundation of the house first before we pick out the paint color.
This topic was a mish-mash on the Dabears board. But with this new group here, I am curious where everyone is on drafting a starting QB. I'm not trying to get into the Cutler love/hate thread thing. Forget that. What about the post-Cutler era? It's coming. What do you think is our BEST move here?
1. Should we try drafting a QB in 2017 regardless of how Jay Cutler performs this season?
2. Should we try to instead, bring on a FA instead?
3. What about the backup QB situation for 2017?
4. Should we just kick the can down the street to 2018 and beyond if Jay has a decent year in 2016?
Late to the party here, and in reading all the earlier posts, everything I would have said has already been said.
1. Yes. 2. No, don't see any FA that looks promising as a starter. 3. Draft one to learn under Cutler and eventually replace him. Or grab an FA for backup if the draft looks weak. 4. No. Then we're stuck trading the farm to get just anybody.
Basically, I think we have 2 years to get Cutler's replacement in line. Otherwise we'll be forced to get anybody available and we'll have more of the Clausen, Stenstrom, Quinn, Mirer, Stewart etc QB carousel. Pace is in a pickle here. Too many positions of need, and not enough time to build the roster.If we can be sure cutler has 3-5 more "good" years in him, then we might be okay. But it's a tight window.
I like Soul's idea about how we're building a team that doesn't depend so much on a QB. I think this is the way to go. QBs are overpriced and too much depends on them. Make it a less valuable position, and that's damage control and salary cap management combined.
I am thinking that while the team still needs upgrades, that most critical needs are met and it would be ok to draft one high next year. The other things that might get on the way would be if the pass rush is still not strong and there is a perceived stud there. Others that might pre-empt it are if we lose Jeffrey and management puts a high priority on a top replacement or of course if we go with a high secondary pick rather than FA there. Of course there is also the question of whether the QB we want will be there. If not, then we go in a different direction. At this point we THINK we know what our needs might be next year but we have not even started the season and do not know who will take the next step or what we do in FA. However, I do think that given the right set of circumstances, they may be ready to pick a QB. I don't want them to wait until Cutler is either gone or useless. We need him to learn under Cutler for a year or two so the sooner the opportunity presents itself, the better.
I like that ^^^^^
What I hope doesn't happen is a repeat of the Urlacher experience where we lost the QB of our defense, and we had no post-Urlacher exit plan. It really hurt our defense. I'm not comparing Cutler to Urlacher here... but I am comparing them as field generals of their units. Important, key players. The QB, by the very nature of the position (he's handling the ball and directing the O on every single snap of the game on offense) is a key guy.
If we wait until we have the perfect OL before we think about the post-Cutler era, well, we'll have a long wait for that one. And I do agree that Fox is probably wanting to build a team strong enough that we don't need a great QB. But you still can't have a crap QB who gives games away either. That's my 2-cents worth anyway.
I'm going to be pretty disappointed if we wait until we are in full-blown crisis mode, before we try to draft a QB.
Ric I don't deny there have been some decent #2 type QB prospects in the last few years who may have been developed but how does that help a team that's devoid of talent on the OL to even protect who they have and on defense to run a 3-4 scheme as they wanted to do?
I'm sorry to disagree with you 'cause you know I seldom do (insert Pinocchio smiley here) but ya' gotta build from the lines outward and both needed some serious infusion of talent. Pick a QB drafted in the last couple of year, even Garoppolo and can you honestly tell me we'd have been better off with that pick than with Goldman or Whitehair? Two starters vs a backup QB with some potential to some day become a #1 and a third 3rd round starter in an injured Grasu.
I would also love to have a more stable situation at the #2 QB spot but not at the expense of spending a pick on a player I feel can start for me in year one or two over a speculative pick of a QB who at best won't start for at least two years. Let's build the foundation of the house first before we pick out the paint color.
Actually there has been good #1 and 2 found in the first 1-3 rounds, if you go back to 2011. The Bears OL hasn't always been devoid of talent, and if the QB didn't stare down his WR's and wait until the last second(waiting for them to be open instead of throwing at the break to throw them open) they would look even better.
You can build the OL and DL and get a qb; there are 3 picks in every draft in the first 3 rounds(unless your Angelo and trade them away), and you can get OC's and OG's after the those rounds. Depending on what your looking for in the DL(not penetrator) you can likely get those in the mid draft also. Even if not, again 2 of 3 could have been gotten in the draft w/a QB.
We do agree though, best thing you can give a rookie QB is a strong OL and outlet(TE/good WR) as well as a RB...which btw they had and gave up when they got rid of Bennett, Forte and Slauson.
QUOTE JABF; "I'm going to be pretty disappointed if we wait until we are in full-blown crisis mode, before we try to draft a QB."
I'm gonna give Pace more credit than that. Based on Hoyer's age he may have been seen as a potential two year plan as a #2 for now while we keep looking for that one particular guy we want to develop. I don't think Shaw is necessarily that guy either. I think he was signed because he may prove to be a better alternative as a #2 than Fales.
So our QB of the future isn't onboard yet and there's no doubt we need to find one sooner than later but I still don't believe "just anyone" will do. It has to be the right one and I do believe or will take a 1st or higher 2nd round pick to get him therefore he has to be a BPA above another position we'd be drafting to fill with a kid with starting potential.
Looking at our potential needs today and the 2017 draft I'd say that a CB, a Pass Rusher, and a TE might all out rank QB on the basis of need if that player and a QB were ranked equally by Pace and his staff. So which one does he take? If true to his word he takes the position player not the QB.
We'll get one and I don't believe we'll be in full crisis mode either because I believe there's a real good chance Cutler will be here for much longer than some believe he will and he'll be playing well enough and consistently enough to win a championship. We won one with Mac and he was anything but a paragon of consistency or health and we got to one with Sexy Rexy which is still hard for me to believe.
Cutler is a far better QB than both of them combined but he's never had a defense as good as those teams had. When it was close in 2010 he did come one game short of a SB getting beaten by the team who won it. But some want to forget that like it happened in the middle of the last century or something not 5 years ago.
What has he had to deal with since then? One year of lame duck Lovie with Tice for an OC, three years with GM Emery and two with being the QB of the Trestman Follies and a rebuilding year under Fox with yet another OC and another offense to learn. Shit, I'm surprise he hasn't retired himself by now or asked for another trade. I probably would have.
Whether it's by the draft , or by FA , if the player they want is available then they need to strike immediately . But pick a kid who has proven he can THROW while in college , and not some Jim Harbaugh type who handed off during his college career .