Chicago Tribune: Bears long on excuses and short on progress

JABF Administrator Posts: 18,093 Likes: 19,322	Chicago Tribune: Bears long on excuses and short on progress Nov 20, 2017 12:06:46 GMT -6 Post by JABF on Nov 20, 2017 12:06:46 GMT -6 Brad Biggs is usually pretty positive about the Bears, but it looks like he finally climbed down from the bandwagon: Bears long on excuses and short on progress Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
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Chicago Tribune: Bears long on excuses and short on progress Nov 20, 2017 12:26:35 GMT -6 britishbearfan likes this

Post by riczaj01 on Nov 20, 2017 12:26:35 GMT -6

Don't really agree w/the title. Short on wins sure, but progress? I think I have seen plenty of progress from when Fox/Fang and company took over. I have seen good progress from last year to this year.

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Chicago Tribune: Bears long on excuses and short on progress Nov 20, 2017 12:30:22 GMT -6 riczaj01, britishbearfan, and 1 more like this

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Nov 20, 2017 12:26:35 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Don't really agree w/the title. Short on wins sure, but progress? I think I have seen plenty of progress from when Fox/Fang and company took over. I have seen good progress from last year to this year.

Maybe he was just talking about Loggains being short

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Chicago Tribune: Bears long on excuses and short on progress Nov 20, 2017 12:32:23 GMT -6 bears40, jusnixx, and 1 more like this

Post by JABF on Nov 20, 2017 12:32:23 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2017 12:26:35 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Don't really agree w/the title. Short on wins sure, but progress? I think I have seen plenty of progress from when Fox/Fang and company took over. I have seen good progress from last year to this year.

Well. Lets look at the record. The Bears let Lovie Smith go after a 10-win season. That is fact. The Bears let Emery/Trestman go after a 6-win season. We have 3-wins this season, after 3-wins last season. At some point you are what your record says you are. We are still a last place team in our division. Again.

Are there some individual good things that have happened? Sure. But we are still a 3-win team. I mean, those are the cold hard facts.

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Last Edit: Nov 20, 2017 12:33:45 GMT -6 by JABF

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Chicago Tribune: Bears long on excuses and short on progress Nov 20, 2017 12:57:23 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Nov 20, 2017 12:57:23 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2017 12:32:23 GMT -6 JABF said:

Nov 20, 2017 12:26:35 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Don't really agree w/the title. Short on wins sure, but progress? I think I have seen plenty of progress from when Fox/Fang and company took over. I have seen good progress from last year to this year.

Well. Lets look at the record. The Bears let Lovie Smith go after a 10-win season. That is fact. The Bears let Emery/Trestman go after a 6-win season. We have 3-wins this season, after 3-wins last season. At some point you are what your record says you are. We are still a last place team in our division. Again.

Are there some individual good things that have happened? Sure. But we are still a 3-win team. I mean, those are the cold hard facts.

Cherry picking seasons is nice and all but reality is Lovie was a largely a .500 HC after the SB loss; and his team had old all pro players, many of whom he wasn't didn't have a lot of say in grabbing. And right now he's failed in TB and is failing in Ill, but ya lets look fondly at his one good year since his SB loss. Trestman had to go b/c the team revolted on him, as expected after Lovie was let go, and he cannot coach alpha males, but he still had old all pro talent, many of whom had to go b/c they were part of the revolt.

Where is the all pro talent on this team? Long, almost always hurt. Sitton Hurt(both OG's btw), Danny T, Freeman(hurt). Floyd/Hicks that's about it. You cannot win 6-10 games w/out the horses. There is a reason Pace insisted on having a long leash for this rebuild. There was no quality young talent on this team, and there was no depth, and he was stuck w/a sup bar QB w/a contract that meant there was no way could get rid of him; he tried but no team was insane enough to want that contract.

He'll have 5+ wins this season, that's technically progress. Should there be more? And should that be enough to get Fox fired, I think so, but if they somehow squeek at out 7-8 wins who knows.

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Chicago Tribune: Bears long on excuses and short on progress Nov 20, 2017 13:54:35 GMT -6 jusnixx likes this

Post by JABF on Nov 20, 2017 13:54:35 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2017 12:57:23 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Nov 20, 2017 12:32:23 GMT -6 JABF said:

Well. Lets look at the record. The Bears let Lovie Smith go after a 10-win season. That is fact. The Bears let Emery/Trestman go after a 6-win season. We have 3-wins this season, after 3-wins last season. At some point you are what your record says you are. We are still a last place team in our division. Again.

Are there some individual good things that have happened? Sure. But we are still a 3-win team. I mean, those are the cold hard facts.

Cherry picking seasons is nice and all but reality is Lovie was a largely a .500 HC after the SB loss; and his team had old all pro players, many of whom he wasn't didn't have a lot of say in grabbing. And right now he's failed in TB and is failing in Ill, but ya lets look fondly at his one good year since his SB loss. Trestman had to go b/c the team revolted on him, as expected after Lovie was let go, and he cannot coach alpha males, but he still had old all pro talent, many of whom had to go b/c they were part of the revolt.

Where is the all pro talent on this team? Long, almost always hurt. Sitton Hurt(both OG's btw), Danny T, Freeman(hurt). Floyd/Hicks that's about it. You cannot win 6-10 games w/out the horses. There is a reason Pace insisted on having a long leash for this rebuild. There was no quality young talent on this team, and there was no depth, and he was stuck w/a sup bar QB w/a contract that meant there was no way could get rid of him; he tried but no team was insane enough to want that contract.

He'll have 5+ wins this season, that's technically progress. Should there be more? And should that be enough to get Fox fired, I think so, but if they somehow squeek at out 7-8 wins who knows.

I do believe we have made incremental progress. I also believe Pace has made his share of mistakes. I don't think any of us would dispute that.

I am not saying Lovie Smith should not have been let go. I 100% supported that move then, and I still do now. But the fact is the team let him go after a 10-win season. We let Trestman go after a 6-win season. Fox has 3-wins so far, after a 3-win season. We are about to end up in last place in the NFCN - again. I didn't make those things up. That's reality.

Is that enough progress to keep Fox and Pace around? Personally, I think we should move on from Fox at the end of this season. I also think that if we don't see substantial progress by the end of year-5 of the Pace era, then we need to move on from Pace. I believe that is reasonable.

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Last Edit: Nov 20, 2017 13:57:50 GMT -6 by JABF

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Chicago Tribune: Bears long on excuses and short on progress Nov 20, 2017 16:34:32 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by riczaj01 on Nov 20, 2017 16:34:32 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2017 13:54:35 GMT -6 JABF said:

Nov 20, 2017 12:57:23 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Cherry picking seasons is nice and all but reality is Lovie was a largely a .500 HC after the SB loss; and his team had old all pro players, many of whom he wasn't didn't have a lot of say in grabbing. And right now he's failed in TB and is failing in Ill, but ya lets look fondly at his one good year since his SB loss. Trestman had to go b/c the team revolted on him, as expected after Lovie was let go, and he cannot coach alpha males, but he still had old all pro talent, many of whom had to go b/c they were part of the revolt.

Where is the all pro talent on this team? Long, almost always hurt. Sitton Hurt(both OG's btw), Danny T, Freeman(hurt). Floyd/Hicks that's about it. You cannot win 6-10 games w/out the horses. There is a reason Pace insisted on having a long leash for this rebuild. There was no quality young talent on this team, and there was no depth, and he was stuck w/a sup bar QB w/a contract that meant there was no way could get rid of him; he tried but no team was insane enough to want that contract.

He'll have 5+ wins this season, that's technically progress. Should there be more? And should that be enough to get Fox fired, I think so, but if they somehow squeek at out 7-8 wins who knows.

I do believe we have made incremental progress. I also believe Pace has made his share of mistakes. I don't think any of us would dispute that.

I am not saying Lovie Smith should not have been let go. I 100% supported that move then, and I still do now. But the fact is the team let him go after a 10-win season. We let Trestman go after a 6-win season. Fox has 3-wins so far, after a 3-win season. We are about to end up in last place in the NFCN - again. I didn't make those things up. That's reality.

Is that enough progress to keep Fox and Pace around? Personally, I think we should move on from Fox at the end of this season. I also think that if we don't see substantial progress by the end of year-5 of the Pace era, then we need to move on from Pace. I believe that is reasonable.

I'm not sure if the Bears could have been much further along then they are now; maybe a more confident 8-8, but that would have meant, imo, drafting a qb before this past year and having them up to speed already.

I think the problem was how the team, HH, tried to keep things moving along instead of blowing it all up after Lovie. New Gm, new HC, all new coordinators, cut/trade or whatever else any other simbelence of that team for whatever you could and start over. Start that rebuild right then in there. Instead the tried to keep an aging def that had played way over there heads trying to keep their HC's job safe.

I never wanted Fox here. A lot will depend on what it takes to get Fang to stay, or if that is even possible. I'd love nothing more then to see Fox/Loggains be moved on from.

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Chicago Tribune: Bears long on excuses and short on progress Nov 20, 2017 17:05:26 GMT -6 riczaj01 likes this

Post by JABF on Nov 20, 2017 17:05:26 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2017 16:34:32 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Nov 20, 2017 13:54:35 GMT -6 JABF said:

I do believe we have made incremental progress. I also believe Pace has made his share of mistakes. I don't think any of us would dispute that.

I am not saying Lovie Smith should not have been let go. I 100% supported that move then, and I still do now. But the fact is the team let him go after a 10-win season. We let Trestman go after a 6-win season. Fox has 3-wins so far, after a 3-win season. We are about to end up in last place in the NFCN - again. I didn't make those things up. That's reality.

Is that enough progress to keep Fox and Pace around? Personally, I think we should move on from Fox at the end of this season. I also think that if we don't see substantial progress by the end of year-5 of the Pace era, then we need to move on from Pace. I believe that is reasonable.

I'm not sure if the Bears could have been much further along then they are now; maybe a more confident 8-8, but that would have meant, imo, drafting a qb before this past year and having them up to speed already.

I think the problem was how the team, HH, tried to keep things moving along instead of blowing it all up after Lovie. New Gm, new HC, all new coordinators, cut/trade or whatever else any other simbelence of that team for whatever you could and start over. Start that rebuild right then in there. Instead the tried to keep an aging def that had played way over there heads trying to keep their HC's job safe.

I never wanted Fox here. A lot will depend on what it takes to get Fang to stay, or if that is even possible. I'd love nothing more then to see Fox/Loggains be moved on from.

I agree with all of that, Ric. If the team had selected the right GM, and then a good head coach after Lovie - and then seriously went into rebuilding mode, it would could have been so good by now. This 2017 season would be our 5th year of the rebuild. Next season would be our 6th. We would have had the continuity of GM and coaches too.

Instead, it looks like we will be cycling through our 3rd head coach in 6 years, next season. Even if they do get it right this time (not a given by any means, knowing how HH bumbles through these matters) it will still mean the new coaching staff will be needing some time to implement new playbooks, schemes & address the personnel they will need to run the new schemes. Some new coaching staffs ramp up pretty quickly if they are truly good. But others need more time and more draft years to build what they want roster wise.

If Fox isn't "The Guy" then I just hope we get on with it, and get a new guy in to start the next cycle. Don't blow 2018 farting around with Fox for another year. Cut our losses and move on. It sucks. But this is how the Bears roll. Decades of futility and hopelessness.

One last point that is nagging at me. We are all acting like Mitchell Trubisky being a great QB is a done deal. He looks very promising so far, and I am super-hopeful he is going to be a great franchise QB. But that is not proven yet. We are the Bears, and we have a bad QB mojo here that breaks our hearts with QBs. We were all celebrating like lunatics when Rex Grossman looked promising initially - and he did look good at first. We were so hopeful. Same with Cutler coming here. We were ready to buy our super bowl tix initially. But it all turned to crap. Hopefully Mitch will be the one to change the mojo. But we don't know that for sure yet.

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Last Edit: Nov 20, 2017 17:31:20 GMT -6 by JABF

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Chicago Tribune: Bears long on excuses and short on progress Nov 20, 2017 17:12:57 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by riczaj01 on Nov 20, 2017 17:12:57 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2017 17:05:26 GMT -6 JABF said:

Nov 20, 2017 16:34:32 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

I'm not sure if the Bears could have been much further along then they are now; maybe a more confident 8-8, but that would have meant, imo, drafting a qb before this past year and having them up to speed already.

I think the problem was how the team, HH, tried to keep things moving along instead of blowing it all up after Lovie. New Gm, new HC, all new coordinators, cut/trade or whatever else any other simbelence of that team for whatever you could and start over. Start that rebuild right then in there. Instead the tried to keep an aging def that had played way over there heads trying to keep their HC's job safe.

I never wanted Fox here. A lot will depend on what it takes to get Fang to stay, or if that is even possible. I'd love nothing more then to see Fox/Loggains be moved on from.

One last point that is nagging at me. We are all acting like Mitchell Trubisky being a great QB is a done deal. He looks very promising so far, and I am super-hopeful he is going to be a great franchise QB. But that is not proven yet. We are the Bears, and we have a bad QB mojo here that breaks our hearts with QBs. We were all celebrating like lunatics when Rex Grossman looked promising initially - and he did look good at first. We were so hopeful. Same with Cutler coming here. We were ready to buy our super bowl tix initially. But it all turned to crap. Hopefully Mitch will the the one to change the mojo. But we don't know that for sure yet.

There are times that he looks really inaccurate, and looks confused. But I'm constantly reminding myself he shouldn't be playing right now; not w/his learning curve and not w/how few legit nfl weapons he has.

I never held Glennon 100% to blame for how poorly he played, and I won't hold Trubs 100% for how badly he played. The lack of talent and time in the system, w/a questionable at best OC, is going to muck up legit observations about any player on the field. I'm waiting to see what happens next offseason to see how they surround Trubs w/real talent before; and honestly it takes a legit 3 years to accuratealy judge a player. 1 or 2 good seasons doesn't mean that come year three you won't fall back a little as teams now know how to counter what you do.

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Chicago Tribune: Bears long on excuses and short on progress Nov 20, 2017 19:16:08 GMT -6 jusnixx likes this

Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2017 19:16:08 GMT -6

Nov 20, 2017 12:32:23 GMT -6 JABF said:

Nov 20, 2017 12:26:35 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Don't really agree w/the title. Short on wins sure, but progress? I think I have seen plenty of progress from when Fox/Fang and company took over. I have seen good progress from last year to this year.

Well. Lets look at the record. The Bears let Lovie Smith go after a 10-win season. That is fact. The Bears let Emery/Trestman go after a 6-win season. We have 3-wins this season, after 3-wins last season. At some point you are what your record says you are. We are still a last place team in our division. Again.

Are there some individual good things that have happened? Sure. But we are still a 3-win team. I mean, those are the cold hard facts.

Amen brother D.

In the end progress is measured only one way in the NFL. Wins vs Losses. They keep score at this level and no one gets a medal for participation. Focks said it himself. It's all about results and he hasn't gotten them.

Sayonara Focksy!

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Last Edit: Nov 20, 2017 19:16:55 GMT -6 by Deleted

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Chicago Tribune: Bears long on excuses and short on progress

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