There may not be a clear cut option at QB TO YOU....however YOU are not the one pulling the trigger on draft night...Pace is. So while there may not be a clear cut option to YOU, there may be to PACE, the one who is doing the drafting, the one who is doing the scouting, and the one who is gathering input from other who are paid to do the scouting. If he has conviction in a guy in this draft he should take them and not think twice about it.
I get what you are saying. I really do. The problem is that even with our dear coach Fox, we are not guaranteed a #3 or better next year. So any discussions of better QBs next year (and they are ALWAYS better next year) is pretty much irrelevant unless we are one of the top two or three.
What I am hoping is that we take a QB early and Pace tells Fox to chill on playing the new guy because he brought in Glennon just so the new guy can learn. Then Fox gets taken out of the "breaking the new QB" equation.
If I knew we were going to pick in the top 3 next year, I would also say lets see what Glennon can do and just wait til next year, but I think we won;t have a sniff at any of the top QBs next year because we'll pick lower than this year.
I'm not one who believes we must have a top five pick to draft a QB. Three of the best QBs currently playing were drafted well after that. Give it a year for the smoke to clear after Cutler's departure and for us to move on from Fox. Taking a QB at #3 this year is a reach by most peoples standards.
Pace is trying to sell Glennon as more than just a "bridge guy" so if he takes his QB at #3 what reason will have give for that flip flop? I looks to me as if Pace has set this up intentionally so he isn't forced to spend a high pick on a QB instead for taking one like maybe Peterman later on and that's how I would play it as well.
Why spend a top pick on a QB under Fox. He doesn't want a rookie QB, he never has, and he's never developed one. It would be like asking me to coach a budding young virtuoso violinist and we'd be wasting an entire year of that development because unless the kid can perform at a top level day one he'll be behind Glennon and Sanchez getting very few reps and no game experiences unless someone goes down.
We still need more help on the OL and more help at WR and TE in addition to what's needed on defense. It's not like we'd be passing on a sure thing and Pace needs more sure things with his top picks. We have a shitty team that needs to improve before any QB will ever be a difference maker here. I'm not gonna make his call for him but that is my view on it pretty much in total.
It doesn't matter what most people think is a reach. It doesn't matter what Pace is "trying to sell Glennon as", because the contract he gave him does all the talking it needs too. It doesn't matter what Fox wants at this point. He can still develop while not playing...thats like saying Aaron Rodgers didn't develop while he sat, or Tom Brady didn't develop while he sat. Who are we drafting at 3 to play on the o-line? And if we don't draft a QB it's not like we would be drafting a sure thing at any other position.
yeah, so we have some basic differences there that lead to different evaluations and conclusions.
Yup. I don't have to look any farther than Cleveland to see what happens when year after year a team keeps spending high picks on QBs who fail because the team who drafted them sucks. Are we about to become Cleveland or are we already there?
Look at out last two SB teams. Those teams were built well in advance of those appearances through the draft and FA. The QB came after that in both instances and we were able to get there with two QBs who won't make anyone's HOF nominations list. Jay Cutler is a far better QB than either of them but because we did not build a complete team around him he failed to do what two QBs who were not his equal had done before him.
My approach would always been to build a strong defense and a great OL first so the QB has the support on the field that he needs. Then there's the coaching issue as well and I don't think there's much need for me to repeat my thoughts on that. They've been well established already.
Actually thats incorrect. Matt Ryan was drafted in 2008, before Julio Jones, before Sam Baker, and Peter Konz, and Desmond Trufant, and Jake Matthews, and Devonta Freeman, and Vic Beasley, Tevin Coleman, etc, etc. In fact their starting lineup this season didn't feature one player drafted prior to Ryan. Tom Brady was drafted in 2000 on a team who already had a QB, had a solid drafts the 2 years prior and then a great draft the next year.
yeah, so we have some basic differences there that lead to different evaluations and conclusions.
Yup. I don't have to look any farther than Cleveland to see what happens when year after year a team keeps spending high picks on QBs who fail because the team who drafted them sucks. Are we about to become Cleveland or are we already there?
Look at out last two SB teams. Those teams were built well in advance of those appearances through the draft and FA. The QB came after that in both instances and we were able to get there with two QBs who won't make anyone's HOF nominations list. Jay Cutler is a far better QB than either of them but because we did not build a complete team around him he failed to do what two QBs who were not his equal had done before him.
My approach would always been to build a strong defense and a great OL first so the QB has the support on the field that he needs. Then there's the coaching issue as well and I don't think there's much need for me to repeat my thoughts on that. They've been well established already.
If we were to draft a QB as well (or should I say as poorly) as Cleveland has done in the 1st round, I would agree with you.
Here are the first round QB picks by Cleveland since the team was re-formed in 1999:
Year
Pick
Player
1999
1
Tim Couch
2007
22
Brady Quinn
2012
22
Brandon Weeden
2014
22
Johnny Manziel
IMO not exactly stellar player evaluation. Hopefully Pace will do a better job if ho goes with a QB at #3. I have no idea if Pace has a QB on his radar in the 1st round and if he selects one I have no idea as to how it may work out. I just feel that if Pace has a QB in his sights and really thinks he is a franchise guy, he needs to take him.
I'm not one who believes we must have a top five pick to draft a QB. Three of the best QBs currently playing were drafted well after that. Give it a year for the smoke to clear after Cutler's departure and for us to move on from Fox. Taking a QB at #3 this year is a reach by most peoples standards.
Pace is trying to sell Glennon as more than just a "bridge guy" so if he takes his QB at #3 what reason will have give for that flip flop? I looks to me as if Pace has set this up intentionally so he isn't forced to spend a high pick on a QB instead for taking one like maybe Peterman later on and that's how I would play it as well.
Why spend a top pick on a QB under Fox. He doesn't want a rookie QB, he never has, and he's never developed one. It would be like asking me to coach a budding young virtuoso violinist and we'd be wasting an entire year of that development because unless the kid can perform at a top level day one he'll be behind Glennon and Sanchez getting very few reps and no game experiences unless someone goes down.
We still need more help on the OL and more help at WR and TE in addition to what's needed on defense. It's not like we'd be passing on a sure thing and Pace needs more sure things with his top picks. We have a shitty team that needs to improve before any QB will ever be a difference maker here. I'm not gonna make his call for him but that is my view on it pretty much in total.
It doesn't matter what most people think is a reach. It doesn't matter what Pace is "trying to sell Glennon as", because the contract he gave him does all the talking it needs too. It doesn't matter what Fox wants at this point. He can still develop while not playing...thats like saying Aaron Rodgers didn't develop while he sat, or Tom Brady didn't develop while he sat. Who are we drafting at 3 to play on the o-line? And if we don't draft a QB it's not like we would be drafting a sure thing at any other position.
In your opinion maybe but that isn't what others seem to be saying. Almost all tend to agree that there are no QBs who rate that high in this draft yet because they're QBs they will go higher than they're ranked to go. IMHO players like Thomas, Allen, Adams, Foster, Howard and maybe a half dozen more are all far closer to being sure starters at their positions than any of the QBs.
And I wasn't suggesting an OL or anyone specific at #3. I was simply indicating positions we still have needs at as well that might be considered to take precedence. IMHO team building starts from the inside out and with the OL and DL then skill players on offense so your QB has talent surrounding him he can win with. That and poor offensive coaching has been our failure for a very long time and little or nothing has changed.
And......Rodgers and Brady developed as #2 backups not as #3 clip board holders or PS guys and Brady didn't sit for long once he got his shot.
Let me ask you this. If we take a QB at #3 what happens with Sanchez and Shaw? One or the other will have to go. Sanchez has $1 mil of his deal guaranteed and Fox wants a vet #2. So would you favor keeping him over Shaw and lose any possibility to see what he can do?
Pace will do whatever Pace will do but my thinking won't change if it's a QBs name on the card he sends up.
Yup. I don't have to look any farther than Cleveland to see what happens when year after year a team keeps spending high picks on QBs who fail because the team who drafted them sucks. Are we about to become Cleveland or are we already there?
Look at out last two SB teams. Those teams were built well in advance of those appearances through the draft and FA. The QB came after that in both instances and we were able to get there with two QBs who won't make anyone's HOF nominations list. Jay Cutler is a far better QB than either of them but because we did not build a complete team around him he failed to do what two QBs who were not his equal had done before him.
My approach would always been to build a strong defense and a great OL first so the QB has the support on the field that he needs. Then there's the coaching issue as well and I don't think there's much need for me to repeat my thoughts on that. They've been well established already.
Actually thats incorrect. Matt Ryan was drafted in 2008, before Julio Jones, before Sam Baker, and Peter Konz, and Desmond Trufant, and Jake Matthews, and Devonta Freeman, and Vic Beasley, Tevin Coleman, etc, etc. In fact their starting lineup this season didn't feature one player drafted prior to Ryan. Tom Brady was drafted in 2000 on a team who already had a QB, had a solid drafts the 2 years prior and then a great draft the next year.
I'm talking about OUR last two SB teams brother. I don't give a **** about what Hotlanta did. We had two of the best defenses we've ever had and good offensive lines pretty much in place before we ever got to a SB. Without that do you honestly believe we'd have gotten there solely on the backs of either Mac or Rex?
Yup. I don't have to look any farther than Cleveland to see what happens when year after year a team keeps spending high picks on QBs who fail because the team who drafted them sucks. Are we about to become Cleveland or are we already there?
Look at out last two SB teams. Those teams were built well in advance of those appearances through the draft and FA. The QB came after that in both instances and we were able to get there with two QBs who won't make anyone's HOF nominations list. Jay Cutler is a far better QB than either of them but because we did not build a complete team around him he failed to do what two QBs who were not his equal had done before him.
My approach would always been to build a strong defense and a great OL first so the QB has the support on the field that he needs. Then there's the coaching issue as well and I don't think there's much need for me to repeat my thoughts on that. They've been well established already.
If we were to draft a QB as well (or should I say as poorly) as Cleveland has done in the 1st round, I would agree with you.
Here are the first round QB picks by Cleveland since the team was re-formed in 1999:
Year
Pick
Player
1999
1
Tim Couch
2007
22
Brady Quinn
2012
22
Brandon Weeden
2014
22
Johnny Manziel
IMO not exactly stellar player evaluation. Hopefully Pace will do a better job if ho goes with a QB at #3. I have no idea if Pace has a QB on his radar in the 1st round and if he selects one I have no idea as to how it may work out. I just feel that if Pace has a QB in his sights and really thinks he is a franchise guy, he needs to take him.
Of course and if that's the case he probably will but I'm not gonna assume that he'll get it right either. If anything he may have even less experience in his job than those who made those picks for Cleveland. You're saying it yourself when you use the term "hopefully". So far Pace's draft record is still somewhat hit and miss and a QB is probably the single hardest position to draft and be successful with.
What gets me is too many here and elsewhere would like to believe that we should take a QB, he'll blossom into a franchise passer who'll go on to win a Super Bowl and that will be the end of it. Given this crop I'm not anywhere near that optimistic. There is no Andrew Luck this year or anyone even close and so far Luck hasn't won any SBs either. Build the team. Then get your QB.
It doesn't matter what most people think is a reach. It doesn't matter what Pace is "trying to sell Glennon as", because the contract he gave him does all the talking it needs too. It doesn't matter what Fox wants at this point. He can still develop while not playing...thats like saying Aaron Rodgers didn't develop while he sat, or Tom Brady didn't develop while he sat. Who are we drafting at 3 to play on the o-line? And if we don't draft a QB it's not like we would be drafting a sure thing at any other position.
In your opinion maybe but that isn't what others seem to be saying. Almost all tend to agree that there are no QBs who rate that high in this draft yet because they're QBs they will go higher than they're ranked to go. IMHO players like Thomas, Allen, Adams, Foster, Howard and maybe a half dozen more are all far closer to being sure starters at their positions than any of the QBs.
And I wasn't suggesting an OL or anyone specific at #3. I was simply indicating positions we still have needs at as well that might be considered to take precedence. IMHO team building starts from the inside out and with the OL and DL then skill players on offense so your QB has talent surrounding him he can win with. That and poor offensive coaching has been our failure for a very long time and little or nothing has changed.
And......Rodgers and Brady developed as #2 backups not as #3 clip board holders or PS guys and Brady didn't sit for long once he got his shot.
Let me ask you this. If we take a QB at #3 what happens with Sanchez and Shaw? One or the other will have to go. Sanchez has $1 mil of his deal guaranteed and Fox wants a vet #2. So would you favor keeping him over Shaw and lose any possibility to see what he can do?
Pace will do whatever Pace will do but my thinking won't change if it's a QBs name on the card he sends up.
It's not my opinion...its a fact. Tell me the player who is guaranteed to be a sure thing. The one who has 0 chance of being a bust. Our offensive line was not a problem last season. They ranked 7th in pass protection and 8th in run blocking last year according to footballoutsiders.com. They also have some interesting stats on defensive line...you should check them out.
I don't really care what happens to Sanchez and Shaw to be quite honest if we draft a QB at 3. Do you? Is Shaw or Sanchez the future of this franchise? Or are they the next in line of the all pre-season greats like David Fales?
If we were to draft a QB as well (or should I say as poorly) as Cleveland has done in the 1st round, I would agree with you.
Here are the first round QB picks by Cleveland since the team was re-formed in 1999:
Year
Pick
Player
1999
1
Tim Couch
2007
22
Brady Quinn
2012
22
Brandon Weeden
2014
22
Johnny Manziel
IMO not exactly stellar player evaluation. Hopefully Pace will do a better job if ho goes with a QB at #3. I have no idea if Pace has a QB on his radar in the 1st round and if he selects one I have no idea as to how it may work out. I just feel that if Pace has a QB in his sights and really thinks he is a franchise guy, he needs to take him.
Of course and if that's the case he probably will but I'm not gonna assume that he'll get it right either. If anything he may have even less experience in his job than those who made those picks for Cleveland. You're saying it yourself when you use the term "hopefully". So far Pace's draft record is still somewhat hit and miss and a QB is probably the single hardest position to draft and be successful with.
What gets me is too many here and elsewhere would like to believe that we should take a QB, he'll blossom into a franchise passer who'll go on to win a Super Bowl and that will be the end of it. Given this crop I'm not anywhere near that optimistic. There is no Andrew Luck this year or anyone even close and so far Luck hasn't won any SBs either. Build the team. Then get your QB.
I think you are assuming that I am saying there is a franchise QB in this year's draft and/or I want Pace to take a specific player at #3. Neither is true. I am just saying that there is no magic formula (like "Build the team. Then get your QB.").
And I am saying that if Pace thinks a prospect is his franchise QB then he must take him. And my opinion is you take what you think will be great players when you find them. So if you are presented with what you think is a franchise QB before your team is built, you go for it. And like everything else with being a GM, if you blow it, you will pay for it.
yeah, so we have some basic differences there that lead to different evaluations and conclusions.
Yup. I don't have to look any farther than Cleveland to see what happens when year after year a team keeps spending high picks on QBs who fail because the team who drafted them sucks. Are we about to become Cleveland or are we already there?
Look at out last two SB teams. Those teams were built well in advance of those appearances through the draft and FA. The QB came after that in both instances and we were able to get there with two QBs who won't make anyone's HOF nominations list. Jay Cutler is a far better QB than either of them but because we did not build a complete team around him he failed to do what two QBs who were not his equal had done before him.
My approach would always been to build a strong defense and a great OL first so the QB has the support on the field that he needs. Then there's the coaching issue as well and I don't think there's much need for me to repeat my thoughts on that. They've been well established already.
Well, I think a team that keeps spending high picks that fail on any position will suck. Up until now, their coach has absolutely sucked. They got one now that will probably be able to work better with the GM to get some good people. I think they will start to draft better. It's not spending high picks on QBs that have failed that has sunk them, it is spending high picks that have failed that is to blame. The people that were deciding who were their high picks are to blame. There were good QBs they could have picked that would have helped them.