Fuller seems to want out of Chicago and of course we can see now that AJ had made his mind up to do that if he could as well. So that's two very high draft picks from the last four years who seem to have um.......opted out. Would that be an accurate way to see it?
Now, if we add to that those UFAs who spurned any and all offers to join the Bears this year and last year what is this telling us? Some players simply don't want to be a part of this or so it seems. Is it Pace? Is is Fox? Is it the inept upper management and ownership?
Once is an accident. Twice is a coincidence. But the third time it's a pattern.
Where did this idea that we are "dumping Fuller for draft picks" come from? He missed an entire season last year due to some mysterious knee injury so no one is giving you draft picks for him. And he's a FA after this year unless the Bears use their 5th year option on him, which won't happen unless he lights it up in 2017.
I'm not sure either. If we shopped him now prior to a draft which seems to have some pretty fair depth at CB who would give up anything for him save maybe a conditional 6th or 7th round pick? We aren't getting much of a return on our best players so why would we get anything for Fuller?
For that we might as well keep him through the draft then take stock of where we are. I still believe they should try him at FS. If he refuses or fails there just let him go. His malingering last fall tells me he's either not tough enough to be an impact guy or he simply wants out of Chicago.
To date he basically been one more wasted top pick.
Or maybe...they're finding the paycheck being asked for doesn't match up to the experience and abilities of the one asking for it. Would I have liked Gilmore? Sure...but not for 45 or 50 million guaranteed. We're not a DB away from competing...we're SEVERAL! I liked the Cooper signing and I said that before he signed.
And that's fine. I have no quarrel with you or anyone else over that but realize that if our only path to restocking a team to a championship level is through the draft and by hoping a handful of lower or mid tier UFAs rise to Pro Bowl levels it may take quite awhile to get the job done if it ever gets done at all. That's my point and really my only point.
It took ten years of drafting well by Jim Finks to supply the Bears with one of the greatest teams to ever play in the NFL and less than half that for the McCaskeys to virtually destroy it. They should have won at least two or three SBs with that team.
Following the firing of Ditka in 1992 it took 13 years, firing Mike McCaskey, hiring a true GM to run the draft and FA, and three coaching changes before we made it to another SB. Then we nearly made it again in 2011 before the wheels began to fall off and the McCaskeys agreed once again to fire a second winning HC and replace him with what?
Following the Emery/Trestman mess we began to shed the team of still productive higher paid offensive players and failed to replace them with better ones and the offense has regressed as badly under Fox and Pace as the defense did under Emery and Trestman. Fox not Trestman is the second losingest HC in Bears history and the team has less top tier players now than the one he had when he arrived.
What part of this plan seems to be working brother? What part of this plan tells you these people have any idea what they're doing? Share it with me because I can't see it.
Again...do we build through the draft or through free agency? Can you guys please make your minds up...I can't take the constant flip flopping of positions. Does Gilmore make this team much better than Cooper does? The answer to that is no. Further, how can I sign multiple players to get me to a super bowl if one player is taking up 11.5% of the cap? And that one player isn't Deon Sanders reinvented.
What part of the plan seems to be working? Overall has Pace not drafted well? Have his signings of "2nd tier" guys like Hicks, and Freeman, Sitton Kush, and Porter done well here? Would it have "felt good" to spend a shit ton of money on a "name" like Gilmore...sure, would it have been smart? Nope.
And that's fine. I have no quarrel with you or anyone else over that but realize that if our only path to restocking a team to a championship level is through the draft and by hoping a handful of lower or mid tier UFAs rise to Pro Bowl levels it may take quite awhile to get the job done if it ever gets done at all. That's my point and really my only point.
It took ten years of drafting well by Jim Finks to supply the Bears with one of the greatest teams to ever play in the NFL and less than half that for the McCaskeys to virtually destroy it. They should have won at least two or three SBs with that team.
Following the firing of Ditka in 1992 it took 13 years, firing Mike McCaskey, hiring a true GM to run the draft and FA, and three coaching changes before we made it to another SB. Then we nearly made it again in 2011 before the wheels began to fall off and the McCaskeys agreed once again to fire a second winning HC and replace him with what?
Following the Emery/Trestman mess we began to shed the team of still productive higher paid offensive players and failed to replace them with better ones and the offense has regressed as badly under Fox and Pace as the defense did under Emery and Trestman. Fox not Trestman is the second losingest HC in Bears history and the team has less top tier players now than the one he had when he arrived.
What part of this plan seems to be working brother? What part of this plan tells you these people have any idea what they're doing? Share it with me because I can't see it.
Again...do we build through the draft or through free agency? Can you guys please make your minds up...I can't take the constant flip flopping of positions. Does Gilmore make this team much better than Cooper does? The answer to that is no. Further, how can I sign multiple players to get me to a super bowl if one player is taking up 11.5% of the cap? And that one player isn't Deon Sanders reinvented.
What part of the plan seems to be working? Overall has Pace not drafted well? Have his signings of "2nd tier" guys like Hicks, and Freeman, Sitton Kush, and Porter done well here? Would it have "felt good" to spend a shit ton of money on a "name" like Gilmore...sure, would it have been smart? Nope.
Furthermore, his big splashes haven't faired as well, McPhee and Danny T(if he can be called that) have both spent significant time being injured. Meanwhile the guys you've mentioned hae done better. Better to fill holes so you don't reach in the draft and hope the guys you get in the draft can outpreform the FA's. Then you have depth and talent.
Until this team is ready to make a SB run, they shouldn't be spending crazy money on top FA's, but continue to fill holes and draft as close to BPA as possible; and when able trade back to gather more picks.
Again...do we build through the draft or through free agency? Can you guys please make your minds up...I can't take the constant flip flopping of positions. Does Gilmore make this team much better than Cooper does? The answer to that is no. Further, how can I sign multiple players to get me to a super bowl if one player is taking up 11.5% of the cap? And that one player isn't Deon Sanders reinvented.
What part of the plan seems to be working? Overall has Pace not drafted well? Have his signings of "2nd tier" guys like Hicks, and Freeman, Sitton Kush, and Porter done well here? Would it have "felt good" to spend a shit ton of money on a "name" like Gilmore...sure, would it have been smart? Nope.
Furthermore, his big splashes haven't faired as well, McPhee and Danny T(if he can be called that) have both spent significant time being injured. Meanwhile the guys you've mentioned hae done better. Better to fill holes so you don't reach in the draft and hope the guys you get in the draft can outpreform the FA's. Then you have depth and talent.
Until this team is ready to make a SB run, they shouldn't be spending crazy money on top FA's, but continue to fill holes and draft as close to BPA as possible; and when able trade back to gather more picks.
I can't put a freak injury like an ACL on Pace. Thats just bad luck really. But yeah...I can't fathom a reason why people want to spend 15 mill a year on a corner who only had 5 picks other than the fact they want the ego boost of "we got our guy!".
And that's fine. I have no quarrel with you or anyone else over that but realize that if our only path to restocking a team to a championship level is through the draft and by hoping a handful of lower or mid tier UFAs rise to Pro Bowl levels it may take quite awhile to get the job done if it ever gets done at all. That's my point and really my only point.
It took ten years of drafting well by Jim Finks to supply the Bears with one of the greatest teams to ever play in the NFL and less than half that for the McCaskeys to virtually destroy it. They should have won at least two or three SBs with that team.
Following the firing of Ditka in 1992 it took 13 years, firing Mike McCaskey, hiring a true GM to run the draft and FA, and three coaching changes before we made it to another SB. Then we nearly made it again in 2011 before the wheels began to fall off and the McCaskeys agreed once again to fire a second winning HC and replace him with what?
Following the Emery/Trestman mess we began to shed the team of still productive higher paid offensive players and failed to replace them with better ones and the offense has regressed as badly under Fox and Pace as the defense did under Emery and Trestman. Fox not Trestman is the second losingest HC in Bears history and the team has less top tier players now than the one he had when he arrived.
What part of this plan seems to be working brother? What part of this plan tells you these people have any idea what they're doing? Share it with me because I can't see it.
Again...do we build through the draft or through free agency? Can you guys please make your minds up...I can't take the constant flip flopping of positions. Does Gilmore make this team much better than Cooper does? The answer to that is no. Further, how can I sign multiple players to get me to a super bowl if one player is taking up 11.5% of the cap? And that one player isn't Deon Sanders reinvented.
What part of the plan seems to be working? Overall has Pace not drafted well? Have his signings of "2nd tier" guys like Hicks, and Freeman, Sitton Kush, and Porter done well here? Would it have "felt good" to spend a shit ton of money on a "name" like Gilmore...sure, would it have been smart? Nope.
I still don't understand why you have to pick one. The goal is to build the team. Period. Use all the tools at your disposal.
Again...do we build through the draft or through free agency? Can you guys please make your minds up...I can't take the constant flip flopping of positions. Does Gilmore make this team much better than Cooper does? The answer to that is no. Further, how can I sign multiple players to get me to a super bowl if one player is taking up 11.5% of the cap? And that one player isn't Deon Sanders reinvented.
What part of the plan seems to be working? Overall has Pace not drafted well? Have his signings of "2nd tier" guys like Hicks, and Freeman, Sitton Kush, and Porter done well here? Would it have "felt good" to spend a shit ton of money on a "name" like Gilmore...sure, would it have been smart? Nope.
I still don't understand why you have to pick one. The goal is to build the team. Period. Use all the tools at your disposal.
I think thats whats being done...no? Nobody has been able to explain to me how grossly over paying for a guy is the right move instead of signing a similar guy to a lower, more team friendly deal that allows you to sign other guys to bring up the overall talent of the team. We've made smart free agent moves while drafting well. I have to be honest...I think Gilmore is grossly over rated and New England is crazy to give them as much money as they did.
Again...do we build through the draft or through free agency? Can you guys please make your minds up...I can't take the constant flip flopping of positions. Does Gilmore make this team much better than Cooper does? The answer to that is no. Further, how can I sign multiple players to get me to a super bowl if one player is taking up 11.5% of the cap? And that one player isn't Deon Sanders reinvented.
What part of the plan seems to be working? Overall has Pace not drafted well? Have his signings of "2nd tier" guys like Hicks, and Freeman, Sitton Kush, and Porter done well here? Would it have "felt good" to spend a shit ton of money on a "name" like Gilmore...sure, would it have been smart? Nope.
I still don't understand why you have to pick one. The goal is to build the team. Period. Use all the tools at your disposal.
If I understand this correctly (and I admit that maybe I don't) it seems like they are using different tools in different ways, to rebuild the roster, and the tools (for us right now) have very different primary functions if used properly - to use them with maximum effectiveness for us. And you use the tools differently depending upon the roster talent level a team currently has. If a team is already rock-solid with talent, then the tools are easy to use... just go BPA in the draft after drafting a stud or two in FA. But for a team like ours that has so many serious roster problems, it may make more sense to use FA as a tool to improve a number of weak roster positions, instead of spending all the money on one or two players. Then we can use the draft as a tool to get the best players available, knowing we haven't totally left some positions overly weak. This method requires fiscal restraint so the money can be spent with max effectiveness to cover multiple roster needs.
If both tools are used this way then three things happen:
1. The overall baseline of roster talent is the best you can get for a current year (no gaping holes left unaddressed) 2. The draft tool can be used with max efficiency because you are not drafting a lower-grade player due to a critical need. 3. Over a period of 3 or so years the draft tool can establish a rock-solid foundation of young talent (all BPA guys if the team has a good talent evaluating GM like Pace).
Over the years we've seen bad teams (like our team currently is) use the tools in a different way. They make the fans happy by primarily spending a lot of their cap resources on a single FA or two (that was the Oakland Raiders for years) and then having to reach for lessor-talented players in the draft because they HAD to fill needs rather than draft the best players. It sucks the life out of a franchise if you do it this way. There really is no hope. But yes, the fans get the thrill of signing a stud or two in FA (while the overall roster atrophies).
Pace's way is longer-term gratification. He's only had 2 drafts so far and fans are impatient, and I understand that impatience considering the years of mis-management we've had on the Bears. But in my heart I know Pace is doing this the right way. He has made some mistakes and will continue to make some mistakes along the way. But I think that ultimately he is building a solid team here. He is using the tools the BEST way possible. Being patient and accepting delayed gratification isn't in fans DNA though. I hope we see Pace given the time to fix the team long-term, and the result be a team that can SUSTAIN winning spanning several years (like the elite franchise do).
I still don't understand why you have to pick one. The goal is to build the team. Period. Use all the tools at your disposal.
If I understand this correctly (and I admit that maybe I don't) it seems like they are using different tools in different ways, to rebuild the roster, and the tools (for us right now) have very different primary functions if used properly - to use them with maximum effectiveness for us. And you use the tools differently depending upon the roster talent level a team currently has. If a team is already rock-solid with talent, then the tools are easy to use... just go BPA in the draft after drafting a stud or two in FA. But for a team like ours that has so many serious roster problems, it may make more sense to use FA as a tool to improve a number of weak roster positions, instead of spending all the money on one or two players. Then we can use the draft as a tool to get the best players available, knowing we haven't totally left some positions overly weak. This method requires fiscal restraint so the money can be spent with max effectiveness to cover multiple roster needs.
If both tools are used this way then three things happen:
1. The overall baseline of roster talent is the best you can get for a current year (no gaping holes left unaddressed) 2. The draft tool can be used with max efficiency because you are not drafting a lower-grade player due to a critical need. 3. Over a period of 3 or so years the draft tool can establish a rock-solid foundation of young talent (all BPA guys if the team has a good talent evaluating GM like Pace).
Over the years we've seen bad teams (like our team currently is) use the tools in a different way. They make the fans happy by primarily spending a lot of their cap resources on a single FA or two (that was the Oakland Raiders for years) and then having to reach for lessor-talented players in the draft because they HAD to fill needs rather than draft the best players. It sucks the life out of a franchise if you do it this way. There really is no hope. But yes, the fans get the thrill of signing a stud or two in FA (while the overall roster atrophies).
Pace's way is longer-term gratification. He's only had 2 drafts so far and fans are impatient, and I understand that impatience considering the years of mis-management we've had on the Bears. But in my heart I know Pace is doing this the right way. He has made some mistakes and will continue to make some mistakes along the way. But I think that ultimately he is building a solid team here. He is using the tools the BEST way possible. Being patient and accepting delayed gratification isn't in fans DNA though. I hope we see Pace given the time to fix the team long-term, and the result be a team that can SUSTAIN winning spanning several years (like the elite franchise do).
I definitely get what you are saying, and I think it is a valid strategy. It is still not the one I prefer though. IMO, you need some very good players to get into post season. Not every player on the team can or will be in that category. I agree that if your team is in contention for the SB, you do what ever it takes to get over the top. However, it may not be the change of a player that does it. It may be a coach or simply changing up what defenses and offenses the team is using. If it really is just one player that has kept the team from a SB, then it is a no brainer to get that guy. Rarely is it just one guy -- unless that one guy is a QB. Could be a DE - more pressure would have given up less points or maybe a great QB but the WR corp let him down or need a better RB to take pressure off or a OL to protect the QB better. I guess any number of things, but if you get to a SB, it's hard to say that you lost it because of only one person, at least in my mind.
So if you buy into the fact that you must have a certain number (no set number though) of top tier talent to get you to the dance, and second that this top tier talent only has a set number of years before leaving for more money or getting injured, you not only have to replace that talent but inject it where you don't have enough -- which means needing even more of that talent. I would definitely say the Bears are in that second category. We need to get them first (although holding onto them would not hurt us either).
If a team has no cap, you really have to use the draft and hope you have picked first tier players. If you do have cap, then I think you should use both FA and the draft to do that. Would getting one or two top tier players at more than market value have more impact than getting half a dozen players from only decent to more than average? Hard to say. You need depth players, but IMO, they are easier to get and you can get them cheap and you get them after (and while) you get your top guys. Is it smart to overpay players? No, it's not. But I also think it is not smart to allow any year to go by without adding a top FA addition when you need so many. You can structure contracts so you only overpay on performance, but it still has the high numbers that players and agents seem to want to get in front of the public.
The end goal is to make the team better. Incremental depth makes the team better. It gets you to mediocrity from suck. I have had it with mediocrity and now I am starting to get tired of suck (well, not of all kinds of suck, but I digress). I want a team that can get into the post season year after year. I understand that is not going to happen overnight. But this night has already lasted several years, so I want to see a no holds barred approach to at least trying to get us there, and with my eyes, I did not see the same results in FA that Pace himself said we needed and that he would deliver. While he gave no specific promises, he indicated that we were in both a draft and CAP position to go out and make big changes. So then it comes down to every individual as to whether the changes were big or lives up to his unspoken promises.
Post by paytonisgod on Mar 16, 2017 12:31:24 GMT -6
Is Porter perfectly happy with all the players returning from last year? I bet he would like some better defensive lineman to make his job easier. Would it be disrespectful if the team brought in other guys to compete in hopes that that position gets an upgrade?
Everyone always focuses on the one player and forgets about the 50+ other players on the team. I'm sure they all want the best guys they can get around them. Regardless of whatever the front office's attitude the team's need is the priority.
Also I'm not certain anyone on 3-13 team should be allowed to act like they're somehow irreplaceable.
Is Porter perfectly happy with all the players returning from last year? I bet he would like some better defensive lineman to make his job easier. Would it be disrespectful if the team brought in other guys to compete in hopes that that position gets an upgrade?
Everyone always focuses on the one player and forgets about the 50+ other players on the team. I'm sure they all want the best guys they can get around them. Regardless of whatever the front office's attitude the team's need is the priority.
Also I'm not certain anyone on 3-13 team should be allowed to act like they're somehow irreplaceable.