Other then Brady and Wilson and Prescott, who are the teams doing it that way; and btw, none of those teams had planned it out that way.
These teams were already talented and had starting QBS. They were smart and drafted QBs even though they already had a starter. This is what the Bears have failed to do the last two years. Those three teams already had all the pieces in place for a young QB to come in and succeed. Same thing happened with the Packers.
How many teams were just terrible overall and became better just because they drafted a QB? Most teams that improved with the addition of a new QB because they already had a lot of talent at other positions.
That's my point Hawk, these qb's weren't in their plans to be the starter. They didn't get great and go, oh man we are a qb away we better grab Tom Brady to be our future guy!
Indy, Pitt, NY, Alt, all got their qb's either #1 overall or top 10, so they were pretty craptastic and built around them; Indy's done it twice now. Houston, Cleveland, SF, Chicago have all tried to build the team and then find the qb; how much winning have they done?
These teams were already talented and had starting QBS. They were smart and drafted QBs even though they already had a starter. This is what the Bears have failed to do the last two years. Those three teams already had all the pieces in place for a young QB to come in and succeed. Same thing happened with the Packers.
How many teams were just terrible overall and became better just because they drafted a QB? Most teams that improved with the addition of a new QB because they already had a lot of talent at other positions.
That's my point Hawk, these qb's weren't in their plans to be the starter. They didn't get great and go, oh man we are a qb away we better grab Tom Brady to be our future guy!
Indy, Pitt, NY, Alt, all got their qb's either #1 overall or top 10, so they were pretty craptastic and built around them; Indy's done it twice now. Houston, Cleveland, SF, Chicago have all tried to build the team and then find the qb; how much winning have they done?
Houston has done well and just needs the QB. Cleveland is not that good anywhere and does not have a good foundation for a rookie QB. SF did have a good core until the owner screwed everything up and lost his coaching staff and good players. Right now the Niners have nothing for a young QB and whoever they get is going to fail early.
If you're going to rely on using a rookie QB right away you better have a good supporting cast or pray that he can handle struggling for a couple years. I think we've seen far too many times a young QB just never take the next step because he's getting too beat up and doesn't have the support around him.
I completely understand your argument and I know you can be right. I can be right as well though. It's kind of like which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Do you need the QB first then build around or do you need a balanced team first then the QB? I'm not sure.
The flip side of this whole thing is that building a team in preparation for a QB also has its pitfalls. It can take a decade to get the right QB. Chicago is one of the franchises that are in that boat. Cleveland has not had a good QB in forever either. So a team can be good but go into decline and have to be rebuilt all over again before a QB is found. The real requirement is a guy that knows talent and can draft. I think Pace my be one. However, even a really good GM has a hard time finding a QB. The Pats had no idea that Brady would be as good as he is. They lucked onto him. If they knew he would have been their first pick that year. Dallas had no idea with Dak. There is really a huge question in my mind if there is anyone that knows how to see QB talent. You have your sure winners like Manning and Luck, but even with them, you'd think they were as close to a sure thing as possible but you had no idea how good they would be in the NFL.
The flip side of this whole thing is that building a team in preparation for a QB also has its pitfalls. It can take a decade to get the right QB. Chicago is one of the franchises that are in that boat. Cleveland has not had a good QB in forever either. So a team can be good but go into decline and have to be rebuilt all over again before a QB is found. The real requirement is a guy that knows talent and can draft. I think Pace my be one. However, even a really good GM has a hard time finding a QB. The Pats had no idea that Brady would be as good as he is. They lucked onto him. If they knew he would have been their first pick that year. Dallas had no idea with Dak. There is really a huge question in my mind if there is anyone that knows how to see QB talent. You have your sure winners like Manning and Luck, but even with them, you'd think they were as close to a sure thing as possible but you had no idea how good they would be in the NFL.
It's a tough road.
+1 It is a tough road. And we haven't even seriously tried to draft a quality QB in years. Sure, we've brought in "training camp arms" and late round draft picks. But until the franchise gets serious about drafting a franchise QB we're just pissing in the wind as a franchise. And as you said, it can take a decade to get the right QB... or never. We need to get in the game and get serious about the franchise QB position.
That's my point Hawk, these qb's weren't in their plans to be the starter. They didn't get great and go, oh man we are a qb away we better grab Tom Brady to be our future guy!
Indy, Pitt, NY, Alt, all got their qb's either #1 overall or top 10, so they were pretty craptastic and built around them; Indy's done it twice now. Houston, Cleveland, SF, Chicago have all tried to build the team and then find the qb; how much winning have they done?
Houston has done well and just needs the QB. Cleveland is not that good anywhere and does not have a good foundation for a rookie QB. SF did have a good core until the owner screwed everything up and lost his coaching staff and good players. Right now the Niners have nothing for a young QB and whoever they get is going to fail early.
If you're going to rely on using a rookie QB right away you better have a good supporting cast or pray that he can handle struggling for a couple years. I think we've seen far too many times a young QB just never take the next step because he's getting too beat up and doesn't have the support around him.
I completely understand your argument and I know you can be right. I can be right as well though. It's kind of like which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Do you need the QB first then build around or do you need a balanced team first then the QB? I'm not sure.
Houst has done well? Sorry how many playoff wins does Houston have? SF had a good core after it drafted it's QB(alex smith) then he got hurt and they went w/their backup(2nd rounder) and stayed w/the hot hand. They did not ignore the qb position until their team was good; after the qb position went to hell, so did the team. The Browns have at least 2 times, and looking like possibly a 3rd time ignored the qb position w/the their highest 1st round pick, and went w/another position, and went w/a lower tier qb; and they are still crap.
Rookie QB's need a good OL, good run game and a couple reliable targets. That's all they need, they don't need a great def or st's.
I think it comes down to your teams ability to find their qb. If they do they'll start winning. The easiest way to know and get your guy is to get him high in the first, after that it's all a crap shoot where they could go. Therein lies the issue. Listen I get the idea of getting the generational talent first, they just aren't there in this draft. It's Garrett and maybe Fournette and everyone else though. And again, I see no way the Bear buck the trend of not drafting DB's inside the top 5, ie 1-4. If they trade back fine, grab one of those top fs's and build more draft picks. But in a "weak" qb class I don't see how taking one in rds 2-4 is somehow the better option.
Of course Houston has done well. They keep making the playoffs don't they? That means they have a good team but are just missing something to take the next step and that's a QB. They have a good RB, WRs and defense already. They are ready to win now if they can get a good QB.
The Niners started to suck once Harbaugh was gone. Once he left so did a lot of there best players and then the whole mentality with that franchise went to hell. The need more than just a QB.
Of course Houston has done well. They keep making the playoffs don't they? That means they have a good team but are just missing something to take the next step and that's a QB. They have a good RB, WRs and defense already. They are ready to win now if they can get a good QB.
The Niners started to suck once Harbaugh was gone. Once he left so did a lot of there best players and then the whole mentality with that franchise went to hell. The need more than just a QB.
Being one in done in the playoffs b/c you're team is literally in the shittiest div doesn't really count. 2014 was Harbaughs final season w/the 49rs and they finished 8-8 and 3rd in the div, so they started to fall apart while Harbaugh was still there, and mostly b/c his qb fell back to earth def was still a top 10 group it faltered a little, but nothing the team shouldn't have been able to overcome if the right qb is there.