Post by GrizzlyBear on Nov 7, 2019 16:26:26 GMT -6
I know some of you will discredit the article simply because of the guy who wrote it, but I think it's an interesting take on Pace and how he seems to put too much emphasis on potential and not enough on winning.
Ryan Pace Shows Disturbing Trend When Making Big Decisions By Erik Lambert - November 6th, 2019
Ryan Pace was the youngest GM in the NFL when he was hired in 2015. It became clear the Chicago Bears desperately wanted to go in a new and different direction. They felt he could lead them into the 21st century on how to run a successful organization. They certainly didn’t hand him an easy task. The roster was the oldest in the NFL and had no discernable stars to trade for draft picks. So he had to start from scratch and build.
All things considered, he did the job. After a painful rebuilding process that took three losing seasons and four offseason, he constructed a talented roster that went 12-4 in 2018 and came a missed kick away from winning their first playoff game in almost a decade. Most expected the team to get back again this year but the wheels seem to have come off. Chicago is 3-5 with little hope of getting back into the mix.
A big reason for that is many of Pace’s biggest decisions seem to be coming back to haunt him all at once. This has helped to reveal a disturbing trend in regards to how the GM operates. One that can have devastating consequences if mishandled. What is it exactly?
Pace spent a 2nd round pick on a guy who was “baby Gronk” at a Div III school. Guy has been an absolute failure when asked to go up against real competition. The guys he played against in college are accountants and psychologists now.
Interesting take when you look at Trubs, Shaheen and White. I’m ok with Floyd and am at least seeing growth (be it slow) as time goes on. The Bears this season reminds me of the Falcons here in Atlanta....
Interesting take when you look at Trubs, Shaheen and White. I’m ok with Floyd and am at least seeing growth (be it slow) as time goes on. The Bears this season reminds me of the Falcons here in Atlanta....
Think that is the thing. People look at his early drafts with fox, and don't want to see growth.
Young and inexperienced GM's make mistakes, question is do they learn and grow. I think you see there is growth. Drafts and fas have gotten better. Talent coming in vs leaving is way higher on coming in.
Bad teams have. Constant turnover at gm/hc which creates constant overhauls on the team which create constant bad teams which create constant turnover at gm/hc. Chicago needs to break the cycle and stay the course to break the cycle. Got a good young core from gm to players. Issues are all in all small now find ways to short or long term fix them.
And fans need to realize they over estimated what this team was, sb window was never open.
Interesting take when you look at Trubs, Shaheen and White. I’m ok with Floyd and am at least seeing growth (be it slow) as time goes on. The Bears this season reminds me of the Falcons here in Atlanta....
Think that is the thing. People look at his early drafts with fox, and don't want to see growth.
Young and inexperienced GM's make mistakes, question is do they learn and grow. I think you see there is growth. Drafts and fas have gotten better. Talent coming in vs leaving is way higher on coming in.
Bad teams have. Constant turnover at gm/hc which creates constant overhauls on the team which create constant bad teams which create constant turnover at gm/hc. Chicago needs to break the cycle and stay the course to break the cycle. Got a good young core from gm to players. Issues are all in all small now find ways to short or long term fix them.
And fans need to realize they over estimated what this team was, sb window was never open.
+1
I especially like that point about wanting to see growth. This is what I look for in a GM. This is what I look for in a HC. This is what I look for in a franchise QB. They will make mistakes as they learn - but ARE they learning and growing enough to build a Super Bowl championship winning team? Only time will tell here. We honestly don't know how this will all ultimately play out with Pace, Nagy and Trubisky. The final verdict will depend upon what the DO over the next year I think. What we THINK at this point is worthless. They will be judged on what they do the rest of this season and I think in the 2020 season. The big question is will they show enough growth? We will certainly see.
You make another great point, Ric, in that a constant GM turnover is a poison to a franchise (any professional sports franchise), but obviously you have to have a guy who can get it done there (grow into the position and deliver championships) or it's "next man up" because if a guy simply can't grow enough, then he's part of the problem and not part of the solution. LOL, if it were easy to have a great GM (or HC or QB) then all 32 teams would have 'em. Obviously it's mighty tough in reality.
Personally I am not for or against any of these 3 guys. I hope they grow and bring the Lombardi's here. But I'm not a fan boy of any of them either. I watch, and wait, to see what happens. Could be good for one or all three of them. Maybe not. Only time will tell.
Interesting take when you look at Trubs, Shaheen and White. I’m ok with Floyd and am at least seeing growth (be it slow) as time goes on. The Bears this season reminds me of the Falcons here in Atlanta....
Think that is the thing. People look at his early drafts with fox, and don't want to see growth.
Young and inexperienced GM's make mistakes, question is do they learn and grow. I think you see there is growth. Drafts and fas have gotten better. Talent coming in vs leaving is way higher on coming in.
Bad teams have. Constant turnover at gm/hc which creates constant overhauls on the team which create constant bad teams which create constant turnover at gm/hc. Chicago needs to break the cycle and stay the course to break the cycle. Got a good young core from gm to players. Issues are all in all small now find ways to short or long term fix them.
And fans need to realize they over estimated what this team was, sb window was never open.
Yes, there was a lot of hype, prob too much, but I disagree there wasn't a window open. The D is still very good and I maintain that it would look way better than it has if the O had given it a modicum of support this season. With the exception of the Washington game, one where the D scored a TD, the O has utterly failed to put up respectable yards, TOP, and most importantly, POINTS.
Even with all the issues there have been at TE, OL, etc, with a decent O, esp decent QB play, this team is no worse than 5-3 right now, maybe even 6-2, and right in the thick of the playoff mix. The team has been in every game, with the possible exception of Oakland, into the 3rd Q. IIRC, there's only been one game where the we went into half down by 10 points or more and that's with the offense doing next to nothing almost every week. It's been massive dysfunction on offense, particularly with the QB-HC duo, that has been the difference between being no worse than 1 game out of the division lead and where we are now which is playing out the string and needing a miracle turnaround to even make a wildcard.
Regarding Pace, I'll say this:
I'm not gonna hammer him much for Floyd. In the absolute sense, he wasn't a very good pick in that he's an undersized (for the NFL) tweener type edge rusher who hasn't lived up to the standards expected of a top-10 pick. In the relative sense, his draft turned out in hindsight to be not be a particularly good one at the top as there have only been a handful of players taken in the top-15 or so that year who have amounted to much. So, all in all, Floyd was a decent pick given the Bears desperately needed a rusher at the time (McPhee burned out due to his knee injuries), just not the kind of talent and production you'd normally hope for of a top-10 draftee.
On Kevin White, I'm not gonna be as generous and yes I know there was no way to foresee he would be so hampered by injuries. KW was a JUCO-transfer, one-year-production-only, one-trick-pony from a mid-tier collegiate program & conference. He was the classic 'off the charts athlete, sub-par football producer' all-in-all. More importantly, he was Pace's very first overall draft pick coming at time when the Bears had holes everywhere and were just starting a multi-year rebuild. GMs nearly every year seem to fall in love with some highlight-reel athletic WR and ignore the fact that the positional value, particularly for team "needing help almost everywhere", is pretty poor for 'stud-WRs'. Ask yourself this: if KW hadn't been hurt those first 3 seasons, how many more games do you think the Bears would have won given how weak they were virtually everywhere else? I would guess very few. I look at "star top-10 WRs" as the cherry on top of the sundae. If you have the foundation in place, sure a big, fast, talented WR (assuming the guy panned out) can take an already solid team and make it a real contender. I don't see them making much difference on a roster that doesn't have that foundation in place. Stud top-10 WRs like Fitzgerald, Julio Jones, Megatron, OBJ, and even Amari Cooper (if you want to include him there), have won zero SBs in like 40+ combined seasons. They're the "icing on the cake" not the meat of the cake. I think Pace made a poor choice there by being suckered into thinking that KW, even if he has stayed relatively healthy, was a wise foundational building block for a team that needed OL, DL, edge, Corner, and QB to name a few. Pace should have a made a "solid contact on the ball" type pick rather than a "swing for the fences" one (to use a baseball analogy) given the circumstances. Ideally he should have traded down to get more draft ammo and if that wasn't possible he should have made an unsexy choice like OL, DL, or even a solid DB. Rookie mistake that set back the Bears rebuild by a full season IMO.
With Trubisky, he was kind of like the QB equivalent of Kevin White. He had only one year starting and one year of production and success in a mid-tier college program and conference. He struggled to beat out the other QB for the starting job until his senior year and that guy went on to be undrafted and out-of-the-league in short order. As we all know, he was the highest drafted QB to have such limited college experience and production in a long time and therefore was a huge risk. I fully admit I got suckered in too and I was wrong too. Watson was the wiser and far safer choice given the knowledge available at the time. And Pace traded away 3 mid-round picks to move up for him too! Yes, I know some are gonna say "hindsight is 20-20" but there was info available back then that should have give Pace pause and, fair or unfair, GMs get both the credit and the blame for how their high draft picks, especially expected-franchise-QB choices, turn out. And barring a miracle turnaround, this one turned out really badly. Busting a #2 overall pick on your QB-of-the-future, especially with no real Plan-B in place, sets a franchise back years and that's unfortunately the predicament Chicago is in now.
Regarding Shaheen, I don't think anyone in their right mind can defend that pick, no matter how big a fan of Ryan Pace someone may be. He was also a one-year wonder who played his entire college career at a small Div3 school against competition that wasn't remotely near NFL caliber and Pace wasted a 2nd round pick on that. Shaheen was a guy maybe worthy of a 4th or 5th as a flyer only. He was a terrible reach for where he was drafted and its should be no surprise to anyone that his ability to dominate against glorified-high-school competition in college didn't translate at all in the NFL. He's been a spectacular bust that can't be excused away by injury. And keep in mind he was chosen in Pace's 3rd draft so it's hard to give him a pass for GM-inexperience there either.
One of my only/biggest gripes with Pace is jettisoning known talent for potential. Hes done it multiple times where he gets rid of the vet to make room for his freshly drafted replacement, before the new guy has proven his worth. Sometimes it works but sometimes not so much.
Overall I like what hes done. I wanted Watson over Trubs and tbh I wanted Shannahan as HC back when he was on market and it seems hes worked out extremely well for San Fran. But as far as Pace even decisions I disagree with, I usually see where he was coming from. I think hes super young and he could end up being a great GM, his drafts have seemed.to improve each year as well as his free agency finds. Absolutely no one hits on every pick and I think Pace far often hits more thanmisses. Everyone hates on Glennon but it was more a 1 year deal than anything and who else we.gonna get? I think he does a fair job.
One of my only/biggest gripes with Pace is jettisoning known talent for potential. Hes done it multiple times where he gets rid of the vet to make room for his freshly drafted replacement, before the new guy has proven his worth. Sometimes it works but sometimes not so much.
Overall I like what hes done. I wanted Watson over Trubs and tbh I wanted Shannahan as HC back when he was on market and it seems hes worked out extremely well for San Fran. But as far as Pace even decisions I disagree with, I usually see where he was coming from. I think hes super young and he could end up being a great GM, his drafts have seemed.to improve each year as well as his free agency finds. Absolutely no one hits on every pick and I think Pace far often hits more thanmisses. Everyone hates on Glennon but it was more a 1 year deal than anything and who else we.gonna get? I think he does a fair job.
That's just the point, 66, he does a "fair job" only. He's been really good on D and really bad on O. That's not good; it's merely "fair".
No one expects any GM to hit on every draft pick or free agent signing. We expect the hits to outnumber the misses, both qualitatively and qualitatively. And we expect better results than have seen the season in the 5th year of Ryan Pace's tenure. It's not like he hasn't had a fair shot.
One of my only/biggest gripes with Pace is jettisoning known talent for potential. Hes done it multiple times where he gets rid of the vet to make room for his freshly drafted replacement, before the new guy has proven his worth. Sometimes it works but sometimes not so much.
Overall I like what hes done. I wanted Watson over Trubs and tbh I wanted Shannahan as HC back when he was on market and it seems hes worked out extremely well for San Fran. But as far as Pace even decisions I disagree with, I usually see where he was coming from. I think hes super young and he could end up being a great GM, his drafts have seemed.to improve each year as well as his free agency finds. Absolutely no one hits on every pick and I think Pace far often hits more thanmisses. Everyone hates on Glennon but it was more a 1 year deal than anything and who else we.gonna get? I think he does a fair job.
That's just the point, 66, he does a "fair job" only. He's been really good on D and really bad on O. That's not good; it's merely "fair".
No one expects any GM to hit on every draft pick or free agent signing. We expect the hits to outnumber the misses, both qualitatively and qualitatively. And we expect better results than have seen the season in the 5th year of Ryan Pace's tenure. It's not like he hasn't had a fair shot.
You don't think he build a solid Team? It's experience at HC Position, OL and QB.