Okay, how can Fox be one of the top five? I could see if he walked into a good team, and then imploded it.
But he walked into a dumpster fire caused by Trestman having lost control of his team caused by Emery signing headcases like Ratliff and Marshall.
Nagy would not have managed to succeed last season if it was not for Pace tearing down the team and getting Fox to fix the locker room into something other than the angry mob it was. Hell, Nagy would have gone somewhere else.
The Bears signed the best coach they could at the time who would take the job. It's like when the best players that would come to the Bears were guys like Marcus Wheaton and Antrelle Rolle.
The team was broken, and Fox helped fix the defense and locker room. Yes, he sucked at designing and evaluating offense. But being a placekeeper coach is better than a team destroyer coach like Trestman or Wannstedt.
+1 Definitely glad (like everybody else) that Fox is gone. But the roster talent he inherited was about as bad as I can remember. Guys like Chris Conte & Shea McClellan, a has-been over the hill Jared Allen, Jay Cutler (the safeties were Conte and Ryan Mundy)... the roster was real crap (here is a LINK to what we had when Emery/Trestman left... and these were the starters). Green Bay was hanging 50-burger curb stompings on us. It took Pace years to rebuild the roster into an NFL-quality team.
Post by brasilbear on May 13, 2019 13:55:58 GMT -6
Fox is on my list because I never got the impression he cared about winning. From stupid personnel decisions to in game decisions to game planning to play calling I never felt like Fox cared if they won or lost.
He talked down to fans through the media, and consistently never placed the team in winning positions. Players weren't held accountable either by design or because they actually did what Fox wanted (see Hoyer refusing to take a single risk.)
I firmly believe that Fox was not a Pace hire and that Fox along with upper management believed in the "Fox is just a winner" myth. I believe he directed the dumping of players who didn't kiss his butt or wouldn't toe the line Fox had drawn in the locker room.
Lastly Fox actually believed that Loggains was a real NFL OC.
Fox is rightfully ranked in the top 3 bad HC I have seen the Bears hire in my lifetime.
What Brasil said, plus, he wouldn't play the rookies, even when they were the best player at the position. Remember Jordan Howard? He didn't start until injuries forced Fox to use him.
Fox is on my list because I never got the impression he cared about winning. From stupid personnel decisions to in game decisions to game planning to play calling I never felt like Fox cared if they won or lost.
He talked down to fans through the media, and consistently never placed the team in winning positions. Players weren't held accountable either by design or because they actually did what Fox wanted (see Hoyer refusing to take a single risk.)
I firmly believe that Fox was not a Pace hire and that Fox along with upper management believed in the "Fox is just a winner" myth. I believe he directed the dumping of players who didn't kiss his butt or wouldn't toe the line Fox had drawn in the locker room.
Lastly Fox actually believed that Loggains was a real NFL OC.
Fox is rightfully ranked in the top 3 bad HC I have seen the Bears hire in my lifetime.
1. Wanny 2. Fox 3. Trestman
Fox obviously couldn't get it done here. How much of the blame goes to him versus the lack of talent he inherited from the Emery/Trestman regime is arguable. Both contributed to some crappy seasons. I often wondered how different things would have been if the Bears had never had to endure the Emery/Trestman debacle - and instead the franchise had hired a quality GM/HC combo right after Angelo/Lovie. Phil Emery did major damage to the franchise in a relatively short time frame. He just kneecapped the talent base here. Hiring Trestman ruined the locker room on top of the roster talent woes. Don't you wish the Bears would have gotten a Pace/Nagy level GM/HC combo right after Angelo/Lovie? Obviously it wouldn't have been those 2, but we should have not had to endure the Emery/Trestman era.
I honestly can't see Fox as the 2nd worst head coach here. He doesn't even make my short list, bad as he was. But again, my perspective goes back over a half-century of bad Chicago Bears coaches. It is admittedly a different perspective going back to the 1960's and 1970's here.
Fox is on my list because I never got the impression he cared about winning. From stupid personnel decisions to in game decisions to game planning to play calling I never felt like Fox cared if they won or lost.
He talked down to fans through the media, and consistently never placed the team in winning positions. Players weren't held accountable either by design or because they actually did what Fox wanted (see Hoyer refusing to take a single risk.)
I firmly believe that Fox was not a Pace hire and that Fox along with upper management believed in the "Fox is just a winner" myth. I believe he directed the dumping of players who didn't kiss his butt or wouldn't toe the line Fox had drawn in the locker room.
Lastly Fox actually believed that Loggains was a real NFL OC.
Fox is rightfully ranked in the top 3 bad HC I have seen the Bears hire in my lifetime.
1. Wanny 2. Fox 3. Trestman
Fox obviously couldn't get it done here. How much of the blame goes to him versus the lack of talent he inherited from the Emery/Trestman regime is arguable. Both contributed to some crappy seasons. I often wondered how different things would have been if the Bears had never had to endure the Emery/Trestman debacle - and instead the franchise had hired a quality GM/HC combo right after Angelo/Lovie. Phil Emery did major damage to the franchise in a relatively short time frame. He just kneecapped the talent base here. Hiring Trestman ruined the locker room on top of the roster talent woes. Don't you wish the Bears would have gotten a Pace/Nagy level GM/HC combo right after Angelo/Lovie? Obviously it wouldn't have been those 2, but we should have not had to endure the Emery/Trestman era.
I honestly can't see Fox as the 2nd worst head coach here. He doesn't even make my short list, bad as he was. But again, my perspective goes back over a half-century of bad Chicago Bears coaches. It is admittedly a different perspective going back to the 1960's and 1970's here.
I think ownership needed to go through it. Kind of like someone with a substance abuse issue needs to hit bottom.
IMO George McCaskey has been a real agent for change within ownership and has had to fight off the influence of other members of the family and other long term associates of the family in the Bears organization. I will not mention names as there is one who causes me to vomit. When George took over in 2011, I think there was still a lot of influence from other family members and influential people in the Bears organization who effectively limited George's ability to make changes.
I agree it was terribly painful but I think it was necessary to get a GM in place who had complete control over football operations and who is totally free to choose players, coaches, etc. So if what I believe we are seeing in Pace & Nagy is true (a real partnership between a quality GM and a quality HC), we will think it was worth it in the end.
Fox obviously couldn't get it done here. How much of the blame goes to him versus the lack of talent he inherited from the Emery/Trestman regime is arguable. Both contributed to some crappy seasons. I often wondered how different things would have been if the Bears had never had to endure the Emery/Trestman debacle - and instead the franchise had hired a quality GM/HC combo right after Angelo/Lovie. Phil Emery did major damage to the franchise in a relatively short time frame. He just kneecapped the talent base here. Hiring Trestman ruined the locker room on top of the roster talent woes. Don't you wish the Bears would have gotten a Pace/Nagy level GM/HC combo right after Angelo/Lovie? Obviously it wouldn't have been those 2, but we should have not had to endure the Emery/Trestman era.
I honestly can't see Fox as the 2nd worst head coach here. He doesn't even make my short list, bad as he was. But again, my perspective goes back over a half-century of bad Chicago Bears coaches. It is admittedly a different perspective going back to the 1960's and 1970's here.
I think ownership needed to go through it. Kind of like someone with a substance abuse issue needs to hit bottom.
IMO George McCaskey has been a real agent for change within ownership and has had to fight off the influence of other members of the family and other long term associates of the family in the Bears organization. I will not mention names as there is one who causes me to vomit. When George took over in 2011, I think there was still a lot of influence from other family members and influential people in the Bears organization who effectively limited George's ability to make changes.
I agree it was terribly painful but I think it was necessary to get a GM in place who had complete control over football operations and who is totally free to choose players, coaches, etc. So if what I believe we are seeing in Pace & Nagy is true (a real partnership between a quality GM and a quality HC), we will think it was worth it in the end.
+1 That is a great insight. I do agree. The franchise was broken and your analogy is a good one about needing to hit rock bottom before meaningful change could happen is spot on. Now, I'm trying to forget those bad years and simply look to what is happening now with the franchise. I like what I see happening now.
Fox is on my list because I never got the impression he cared about winning. From stupid personnel decisions to in game decisions to game planning to play calling I never felt like Fox cared if they won or lost.
He talked down to fans through the media, and consistently never placed the team in winning positions. Players weren't held accountable either by design or because they actually did what Fox wanted (see Hoyer refusing to take a single risk.)
I firmly believe that Fox was not a Pace hire and that Fox along with upper management believed in the "Fox is just a winner" myth. I believe he directed the dumping of players who didn't kiss his butt or wouldn't toe the line Fox had drawn in the locker room.
Lastly Fox actually believed that Loggains was a real NFL OC.
Fox is rightfully ranked in the top 3 bad HC I have seen the Bears hire in my lifetime.
1. Wanny 2. Fox 3. Trestman
Well, here's why IMO Trestman was the worst coach the Bears ever had.
The team would give up during games. The defense would just stop playing. Trestman, because he didn't know anyone defense minded, allowed for Mel Tucker to be the DC.
Fox was able to wrangle Fangio and Gase. Yeah, when Gase left, they were stuck with Loggains for a year, but he was better than Aaron Kromer.
The team went from an uncoachable mess on both sides of the ball to a solid defense and crap offense. I don't care about how Fox was to the media. Trestman sucked in that regard too. The players respected Fox. They didn't respect Trestman.
Fox is on my list because I never got the impression he cared about winning. From stupid personnel decisions to in game decisions to game planning to play calling I never felt like Fox cared if they won or lost.
He talked down to fans through the media, and consistently never placed the team in winning positions. Players weren't held accountable either by design or because they actually did what Fox wanted (see Hoyer refusing to take a single risk.)
I firmly believe that Fox was not a Pace hire and that Fox along with upper management believed in the "Fox is just a winner" myth. I believe he directed the dumping of players who didn't kiss his butt or wouldn't toe the line Fox had drawn in the locker room.
Lastly Fox actually believed that Loggains was a real NFL OC.
Fox is rightfully ranked in the top 3 bad HC I have seen the Bears hire in my lifetime.
1. Wanny 2. Fox 3. Trestman
Well, here's why IMO Trestman was the worst coach the Bears ever had.
The team would give up during games. The defense would just stop playing. Trestman, because he didn't know anyone defense minded, allowed for Mel Tucker to be the DC.
Fox was able to wrangle Fangio and Gase. Yeah, when Gase left, they were stuck with Loggains for a year, but he was better than Aaron Kromer.
The team went from an uncoachable mess on both sides of the ball to a solid defense and crap offense. I don't care about how Fox was to the media. Trestman sucked in that regard too. The players respected Fox. They didn't respect Trestman.
I can see everything you say and I'll say that Trestman lost that team so quickly it was stunning. When the bottom fell out it fell quickly.
I just feel that Trestman cared more than Fox. And yes I'm doing the thing I hate which is give a take based on little to no information.
Well, here's why IMO Trestman was the worst coach the Bears ever had.
The team would give up during games. The defense would just stop playing. Trestman, because he didn't know anyone defense minded, allowed for Mel Tucker to be the DC.
Fox was able to wrangle Fangio and Gase. Yeah, when Gase left, they were stuck with Loggains for a year, but he was better than Aaron Kromer.
The team went from an uncoachable mess on both sides of the ball to a solid defense and crap offense. I don't care about how Fox was to the media. Trestman sucked in that regard too. The players respected Fox. They didn't respect Trestman.
I can see everything you say and I'll say that Trestman lost that team so quickly it was stunning. When the bottom fell out it fell quickly.
I just feel that Trestman cared more than Fox. And yes I'm doing the thing I hate which is give a take based on little to no information.
I would say he never had the team, he had some guys on the O but that was about it. a few of the D leaders were in near open revolt the day Lovie was fired. I doubt anyone could have handled that locker room short of Rivera coming back.
Not to break up the coach talk, but with talks of playing/testing through injuries and the groin issue, I would be shocked if he's not "RS"-IR'd. Unless he shows something to show he needs to be on the field come game day, he'll be coming up with an injury before the season starts.