Looking at Cunninghams stats, looks like he's better at recieving out of the backfield then he is at running the ball. 4 years w/the Rams and he only has 50 less targets then he has rushes. Might well be looking at adding competition w/Langford who has been a disappointement.
Thats mainly how he was used...although I don't think very many backs would have been successful behind that o-line this past year in St. Louis/LA
People seem to think the same about the Bears OL; but hey what can you do? I think this guy and Howard could be a nasty 1-2 punch.
I do but I don't see Thompson as being of all that much help now that we actually signed Cunningham who is a better KOR and a better backup RB than Langford. Wheaton should be able to replace him as a speed WR.
Keeping a guy like Bellamy who may have bad hands but is a top flight coverage guy on ST I don't disagree with but I've not been happy Fox kept Thompson over Mariani even last year. I thought it was a poor decision then and I still do.
Besides with as many DBs as we've been adding we should have plenty of coverage guys without a need for Thompson. He had some impressive KOR in 2015 but did little for us last year and I still have to see him as a final cut type back end of the roster guy.
Thats the good part about adding competition throughout the roster...if Thompson can't beat them out he'll find himself without a job. It's not like they paid him big money...so I don't think they'll think twice about cutting him.
Yeah, it may well come down to that. My comment re: Thompson was just a small poke at this signing following those of Prosinski and Wilson a couple more back end of the roster guys.
I've made no bones about my feelings that we need to be adding at least some top tier talent through UFA but either Pace is himself hesitant to take that risk or his ability to compete in his contract offers has been restricted by ownership. If you believe you have another reason lay it on me.
I'm not against adding competition but at what level? If I'm auditioning other musicians for a band and everyone I bring in is a lower or mid level player then how am I elevating the caliber of my band? I'm not. I'm just asking those same questions relative to what the Bears are doing is all.
Given the regression under Fox and Pace I think mine are reasonable questions. I have no quarrel with those who are not asking them but that still doesn't mean I'll stop asking or offering my opinions even when they seem critical. I think by now this team has earned a few critics like me.
Thats the good part about adding competition throughout the roster...if Thompson can't beat them out he'll find himself without a job. It's not like they paid him big money...so I don't think they'll think twice about cutting him.
Yeah, it may well come down to that. My comment re: Thompson was just a small poke at this signing following those of Prosinski and Wilson a couple more back end of the roster guys.
I've made no bones about my feelings that we need to be adding at least some top tier talent through UFA but either Pace is himself hesitant to take that risk or his ability to compete in his contract offers has been restricted by ownership. If you believe you have another reason lay it on me.
I'm not against adding competition but at what level? If I'm auditioning other musicians for a band and everyone I bring in is a lower or mid level player then how am I elevating the caliber of my band? I'm not. I'm just asking those same questions relative to what the Bears are doing is all.
Given the regression under Fox and Pace I think mine are reasonable questions. I have no quarrel with those who are not asking them but that still doesn't mean I'll stop asking or offering my opinions even when they seem critical. I think by now this team has earned a few critics like me.
I've explained my reason, as far as this free agency period. The guys who got paid absurd dollars didn't have the game to back up those dollars. So in that instance why should Pace spend money for ONE guy, when he can sign 2 similar guys and further shore up the secondary for the price of that one guy? To me thats just good business sense.
As for the tier of player they are...regardless of what tier you perceive them to be....they're better than the guys that are here currently! Just by moving those guys down the depth chart this team improves. If everyone in your band is a low level player...which was certainly the case with our secondary, and you bring in mid level guys who have just as much ability as those supposed top tier guys, and perhaps due to musical fit will be better suited in your band...explain to me how your band isn't improving? That makes no sense.
You keep on harping about top tier free agents, difference makers ala Julius Peppers but the fact of the matter is there weren't any of those guys in this free agency period and those free agents timing could not have been any better because despite that they still cashed in.
Yeah, it may well come down to that. My comment re: Thompson was just a small poke at this signing following those of Prosinski and Wilson a couple more back end of the roster guys.
I've made no bones about my feelings that we need to be adding at least some top tier talent through UFA but either Pace is himself hesitant to take that risk or his ability to compete in his contract offers has been restricted by ownership. If you believe you have another reason lay it on me.
I'm not against adding competition but at what level? If I'm auditioning other musicians for a band and everyone I bring in is a lower or mid level player then how am I elevating the caliber of my band? I'm not. I'm just asking those same questions relative to what the Bears are doing is all.
Given the regression under Fox and Pace I think mine are reasonable questions. I have no quarrel with those who are not asking them but that still doesn't mean I'll stop asking or offering my opinions even when they seem critical. I think by now this team has earned a few critics like me.
I've explained my reason, as far as this free agency period. The guys who got paid absurd dollars didn't have the game to back up those dollars. So in that instance why should Pace spend money for ONE guy, when he can sign 2 similar guys and further shore up the secondary for the price of that one guy? To me thats just good business sense.
As for the tier of player they are...regardless of what tier you perceive them to be....they're better than the guys that are here currently! Just by moving those guys down the depth chart this team improves. If everyone in your band is a low level player...which was certainly the case with our secondary, and you bring in mid level guys who have just as much ability as those supposed top tier guys, and perhaps due to musical fit will be better suited in your band...explain to me how your band isn't improving? That makes no sense.
You keep on harping about top tier free agents, difference makers ala Julius Peppers but the fact of the matter is there weren't any of those guys in this free agency period and those free agents timing could not have been any better because despite that they still cashed in.
I guess we differ on the caliber of some of those top tier guys. Maybe a reasonable question then is "Would Pace be the ONLY NFL GM then to actually have his shit together in refusing to pay for them"? Are the GMs of those team who did pay top dollar less astute or do they simply recognize the costs of fielding a better team have gone up and are behaving a bit more realistically than the Bears?
I don't know that you and I can agree on the caliber of this UFA class vs others but it is a fact that guys got paid because the cap has risen and it seems to be the Bears who are failing to fall in behind that as far as their signings go. This is not the first time that's happened either. It's pretty much been their benchmark since Pace and Fox arrived.
As for an example of what I base some of my concerns on let's use this.
Two years ago we drafted Adrian Amos and signed 32 year old Antrell Rolle for $4.9 mil gtd. Rolle was a failure, was released after one year and replaced by yet another UFA in Harold Jones-Quartey on the cheaper vet minimum salary plan who it appears will be replaced by yet another 32 year old player Quintin Demps whose getting $5 mil gtd. Amos may be in limbo depending on who we draft or possibly already have on the roster to challenge him.
So......my question is in three offseasons have we actually improved the Safety positions or are we still just about where we were in 2015? These prior players moved others down the depth chart or off the roster but did our play at the Safety positions improve much or at all? If it did why sign Demps and why is Safety still as high on the pre-draft needs list as it is?
This all goes to my point about changing out personnel but not really improving the team in the process which was a huge earmark of the '90s Bears teams under Mikey McCaskey and Wanny. I'm sure you remember them.
If we accept as you contend that everyone in our secondary was a lower level guy that doesn't say much for Pace and his scouting staff so far since by in large he put them there. IIRC Fuller and McManis may be the only two holdovers and Fuller didn't even play so I can't really count him and McManis is primarily a ST guy anyway. It's the only reason he has a roster spot.
My point all along has been a very simple one. At what point do we actually improve the team more and faster via UFA as opposed to looking far more like it's simply a way of treading water until our drafts pay off. I'm not implying we've never signed any UFAs who have been upgrades just not nearly enough.
I've explained my reason, as far as this free agency period. The guys who got paid absurd dollars didn't have the game to back up those dollars. So in that instance why should Pace spend money for ONE guy, when he can sign 2 similar guys and further shore up the secondary for the price of that one guy? To me thats just good business sense.
As for the tier of player they are...regardless of what tier you perceive them to be....they're better than the guys that are here currently! Just by moving those guys down the depth chart this team improves. If everyone in your band is a low level player...which was certainly the case with our secondary, and you bring in mid level guys who have just as much ability as those supposed top tier guys, and perhaps due to musical fit will be better suited in your band...explain to me how your band isn't improving? That makes no sense.
You keep on harping about top tier free agents, difference makers ala Julius Peppers but the fact of the matter is there weren't any of those guys in this free agency period and those free agents timing could not have been any better because despite that they still cashed in.
I guess we differ on the caliber of some of those top tier guys. Maybe a reasonable question then is "Would Pace be the ONLY NFL GM then to actually have his shit together in refusing to pay for them"? Are the GMs of those team who did pay top dollar less astute or do they simply recognize the costs of fielding a better team have gone up and are behaving a bit more realistically than the Bears?
I don't know that you and I can agree on the caliber of this UFA class vs others but it is a fact that guys got paid because the cap has risen and it seems to be the Bears who are failing to fall in behind that as far as their signings go. This is not the first time that's happened either. It's pretty much been their benchmark since Pace and Fox arrived.
As for an example of what I base some of my concerns on let's use this.
Two years ago we drafted Adrian Amos and signed 32 year old Antrell Rolle for $4.9 mil gtd. Rolle was a failure, was released after one year and replaced by yet another UFA in Harold Jones-Quartey on the cheaper vet minimum salary plan who it appears will be replaced by yet another 32 year old player Quintin Demps whose getting $5 mil gtd. Amos may be in limbo depending on who we draft or possibly already have on the roster to challenge him.
So......my question is in three offseasons have we actually improved the Safety positions or are we still just about where we were in 2015? These prior players moved others down the depth chart or off the roster but did our play at the Safety positions improve much or at all? If it did why sign Demps and why is Safety still as high on the pre-draft needs list as it is?
This all goes to my point about changing out personnel but not really improving the team in the process which was a huge earmark of the '90s Bears teams under Mikey McCaskey and Wanny. I'm sure you remember them.
If we accept as you contend that everyone in our secondary was a lower level guy that doesn't say much for Pace and his scouting staff so far since by in large he put them there. IIRC Fuller and McManis may be the only two holdovers and Fuller didn't even play so I can't really count him and McManis is primarily a ST guy anyway. It's the only reason he has a roster spot.
My point all along has been a very simple one. At what point do we actually improve the team more and faster via UFA as opposed to looking far more like it's simply a way of treading water until our drafts pay off. I'm not implying we've never signed any UFAs who have been upgrades just not nearly enough.
Well Soul...unfortunately for you there are 31 other teams in this league and some of them have a crap ton of money to spend. Some of them also have future hall of fame QB's who are near the end of the road and they're willing to over pay to win one more time. The Bears are not in a position to do that, nor should they, especially for a guy who was not very good last year, and wasn't much better the year before or the year before that. Nor should they drastically overspend for a guy who didn't want to leave the south and only has half a season to base things on. I don't see how that improves the team quickly...over paying questionable talent.
As for the safety spot...would you like to bring back Major Wright and Chris Conte? I believe their last season here they combined to be the two absolute worst safeties in the league.
I guess we differ on the caliber of some of those top tier guys. Maybe a reasonable question then is "Would Pace be the ONLY NFL GM then to actually have his shit together in refusing to pay for them"? Are the GMs of those team who did pay top dollar less astute or do they simply recognize the costs of fielding a better team have gone up and are behaving a bit more realistically than the Bears?
I don't know that you and I can agree on the caliber of this UFA class vs others but it is a fact that guys got paid because the cap has risen and it seems to be the Bears who are failing to fall in behind that as far as their signings go. This is not the first time that's happened either. It's pretty much been their benchmark since Pace and Fox arrived.
As for an example of what I base some of my concerns on let's use this.
Two years ago we drafted Adrian Amos and signed 32 year old Antrell Rolle for $4.9 mil gtd. Rolle was a failure, was released after one year and replaced by yet another UFA in Harold Jones-Quartey on the cheaper vet minimum salary plan who it appears will be replaced by yet another 32 year old player Quintin Demps whose getting $5 mil gtd. Amos may be in limbo depending on who we draft or possibly already have on the roster to challenge him.
So......my question is in three offseasons have we actually improved the Safety positions or are we still just about where we were in 2015? These prior players moved others down the depth chart or off the roster but did our play at the Safety positions improve much or at all? If it did why sign Demps and why is Safety still as high on the pre-draft needs list as it is?
This all goes to my point about changing out personnel but not really improving the team in the process which was a huge earmark of the '90s Bears teams under Mikey McCaskey and Wanny. I'm sure you remember them.
If we accept as you contend that everyone in our secondary was a lower level guy that doesn't say much for Pace and his scouting staff so far since by in large he put them there. IIRC Fuller and McManis may be the only two holdovers and Fuller didn't even play so I can't really count him and McManis is primarily a ST guy anyway. It's the only reason he has a roster spot.
My point all along has been a very simple one. At what point do we actually improve the team more and faster via UFA as opposed to looking far more like it's simply a way of treading water until our drafts pay off. I'm not implying we've never signed any UFAs who have been upgrades just not nearly enough.
Well Soul...unfortunately for you there are 31 other teams in this league and some of them have a crap ton of money to spend. Some of them also have future hall of fame QB's who are near the end of the road and they're willing to over pay to win one more time. The Bears are not in a position to do that, nor should they, especially for a guy who was not very good last year, and wasn't much better the year before or the year before that. Nor should they drastically overspend for a guy who didn't want to leave the south and only has half a season to base things on. I don't see how that improves the team quickly...over paying questionable talent.
As for the safety spot...would you like to bring back Major Wright and Chris Conte? I believe their last season here they combined to be the two absolute worst safeties in the league.
Overpaying for questionable talent would not help any team much but then in whose opinion is the talent questionable and what number, what amount, constitutes overpaying? Both can and often are very subjective and as I said we probably won't entirely agree on those definitions per player. But I also doubt all 31 other NFL GMs are just total spend thrifts who can't judge talent when many are winning far more often than we are.
What's that saying; "One man's trash is another man's treasure"?
Wright and Conte? Ancient history. Now we have Amos and Bush, the two Safeties we drafted in the last two drafts. I'm not certain where Amos ranked last year but it must have been lower than in 2015 and Bush barely saw the field on defense. Are you saying Amos and Bush are better? I mean that's two of Pace's draft picks at a position that really needed help.
One probably won't even make the team or if he does it will more than likely be on ST and depending on how we draft the other may not start because they didn't sign Demps for him to sit. I realize they aren't UFAs but it's an example of how one and possibly two busted mid round picks have forced Pace to sign yet another 32 year old vet just to get some kind of temporary upgrade if that.
In this draft if he can't get a kid like Thomas, and Allen's shoulders are a concern, then he sure as hell should think about drafting a Safety in round one and if not in one then for certain in two if the right guy is still there. We've screwed around with that position for years nearly as much as we have with the OL. Maybe it's time to stop that huh? LOL
Well Soul...unfortunately for you there are 31 other teams in this league and some of them have a crap ton of money to spend. Some of them also have future hall of fame QB's who are near the end of the road and they're willing to over pay to win one more time. The Bears are not in a position to do that, nor should they, especially for a guy who was not very good last year, and wasn't much better the year before or the year before that. Nor should they drastically overspend for a guy who didn't want to leave the south and only has half a season to base things on. I don't see how that improves the team quickly...over paying questionable talent.
As for the safety spot...would you like to bring back Major Wright and Chris Conte? I believe their last season here they combined to be the two absolute worst safeties in the league.
Overpaying for questionable talent would not help any team much but then in whose opinion is the talent questionable and what number, what amount, constitutes overpaying? Both can and often are very subjective and as I said we probably won't entirely agree on those definitions per player. But I also doubt all 31 other NFL GMs are just total spend thrifts who can't judge talent when many are winning far more often than we are.
What's that saying; "One man's trash is another man's treasure"?
Wright and Conte? Ancient history. Now we have Amos and Bush, the two Safeties we drafted in the last two drafts. I'm not certain where Amos ranked last year but it must have been lower than in 2015 and Bush barely saw the field on defense. Are you saying Amos and Bush are better? I mean that's two of Pace's draft picks at a position that really needed help.
One probably won't even make the team or if he does it will more than likely be on ST and depending on how we draft the other may not start because they didn't sign Demps for him to sit. I realize they aren't UFAs but it's an example of how one and possibly two busted mid round picks have forced Pace to sign yet another 32 year old vet just to get some kind of temporary upgrade if that.
In this draft if he can't get a kid like Thomas, and Allen's shoulders are a concern, then he sure as hell should think about drafting a Safety in round one and if not in one then for certain in two if the right guy is still there. We've screwed around with that position for years nearly as much as we have with the OL. Maybe it's time to stop that huh? LOL
You're acting like those other GM's are infallible...as if they don't make mistakes. I have to be honest...I have no idea why New England gave Gilmore what they did...and I don't blame Pace for walking away with that and signing two guys just like Gilmore to make our secondary better. Thats smart to me. He didn't let emotions get the best of him.
As for Amos...you may want to slow your roll a bit. According to those people at PFF he was our best member of the secondary with a grade of 81...whatever the hell that means. He'll be where he belongs at Strong Safety and Demps will play free most likely, and I think we draft a guy, plus they're moving Deiondre Hall to safety.
Overpaying for questionable talent would not help any team much but then in whose opinion is the talent questionable and what number, what amount, constitutes overpaying? Both can and often are very subjective and as I said we probably won't entirely agree on those definitions per player. But I also doubt all 31 other NFL GMs are just total spend thrifts who can't judge talent when many are winning far more often than we are.
What's that saying; "One man's trash is another man's treasure"?
Wright and Conte? Ancient history. Now we have Amos and Bush, the two Safeties we drafted in the last two drafts. I'm not certain where Amos ranked last year but it must have been lower than in 2015 and Bush barely saw the field on defense. Are you saying Amos and Bush are better? I mean that's two of Pace's draft picks at a position that really needed help.
One probably won't even make the team or if he does it will more than likely be on ST and depending on how we draft the other may not start because they didn't sign Demps for him to sit. I realize they aren't UFAs but it's an example of how one and possibly two busted mid round picks have forced Pace to sign yet another 32 year old vet just to get some kind of temporary upgrade if that.
In this draft if he can't get a kid like Thomas, and Allen's shoulders are a concern, then he sure as hell should think about drafting a Safety in round one and if not in one then for certain in two if the right guy is still there. We've screwed around with that position for years nearly as much as we have with the OL. Maybe it's time to stop that huh? LOL
You're acting like those other GM's are infallible...as if they don't make mistakes. I have to be honest...I have no idea why New England gave Gilmore what they did...and I don't blame Pace for walking away with that and signing two guys just like Gilmore to make our secondary better. Thats smart to me. He didn't let emotions get the best of him.
As for Amos...you may want to slow your roll a bit. According to those people at PFF he was our best member of the secondary with a grade of 81...whatever the hell that means. He'll be where he belongs at Strong Safety and Demps will play free most likely, and I think we draft a guy, plus they're moving Deiondre Hall to safety.
NE was willing to overpay b/c they want to make 1 or 2 more SB runs so it was worth the overpay. Chicago is not ready for a SB run so it made no sense to pay 1 guy that is not double the ability of the 2 guys you ended up signing for the same money as that guy.
All 32 teams make mistakes, each year. The good ones just make fewer mistakes and get it right more often then the bad ones. Antoher hint on how the good ones so often seem to get it right; they have a franchise qb to build around and hide their misses.
Depending on how the draft goes, I could see both Demps and Amos fighting for SS. If the Bears do go w/a S in the first or second round that's likely a FS caliber player, and likely is the starter.
You're acting like those other GM's are infallible...as if they don't make mistakes. I have to be honest...I have no idea why New England gave Gilmore what they did...and I don't blame Pace for walking away with that and signing two guys just like Gilmore to make our secondary better. Thats smart to me. He didn't let emotions get the best of him.
As for Amos...you may want to slow your roll a bit. According to those people at PFF he was our best member of the secondary with a grade of 81...whatever the hell that means. He'll be where he belongs at Strong Safety and Demps will play free most likely, and I think we draft a guy, plus they're moving Deiondre Hall to safety.
NE was willing to overpay b/c they want to make 1 or 2 more SB runs so it was worth the overpay. Chicago is not ready for a SB run so it made no sense to pay 1 guy that is not double the ability of the 2 guys you ended up signing for the same money as that guy.
All 32 teams make mistakes, each year. The good ones just make fewer mistakes and get it right more often then the bad ones. Antoher hint on how the good ones so often seem to get it right; they have a franchise qb to build around and hide their misses.
Depending on how the draft goes, I could see both Demps and Amos fighting for SS. If the Bears do go w/a S in the first or second round that's likely a FS caliber player, and likely is the starter.
Yeah. I mean if Gilmore was, as Soul used as an example, a Julius Peppers type player. A guy who is an undeniable difference maker, I'd have no problem with Pace opening the flood gates on the check book. But Gilmore is not that, neither is Bouye so I'm ok improving the group overall. Also, don't discount Hall at safety. I think thats a position he could flourish at. He played all over in college from corner to outside linebacker, had 13 picks in his college career. I'm interested to see how he does in camp.
